Yasuo late cast WIndwall

KingTahlen·May 21, 2015·45 votes·4,193 views

Good evening,

Lately I have been playing mid and in many games have had Yasuo as my opponent. I have found that many skillshots that should be hitting Yasuo are negated even by a windwall that is casted late. What I mean to say a shot that appears to basically hit him is negated by a late cast windwall. To me this seems broken. Skillshots seem a bit pointless when a Yasuo can cast windwall on a skillshot that has already passed his windwall area.

Generally speaking I dont come to the boards and just deal with it, but recently in a game I had I watched this happen far too often.

Is this intended? If so it is some very sloppy programming or latency. To let something like this be from latency makes me lose alot of interest in this game. Leaving things up latency to decide in such a skill shot type of game is lackluster to me.

58 Comments

SgtCrispyMay 21, 201524 votes

Cast time for Wind Wall is pretty much instant and it moves out from where he casted it, it's intended.

Its one of the reasons why yasuo is overpowered - he completely negates entire classes of champions.

By this logic Kayle is the most OP champion in the game for negating all champions.

DUDE BROMay 21, 20153 votes

Yup it has to be this way because of lag.

Example, if I have 200ms ping, and ezreal shoots his Q at me, it might take 200ms to get to me.

If windwall wasn't instantly active the moment I cast it, it would literally be impossible for me to ever block his Q.

Slamurai JackMay 21, 201513 votes

If you're playing Yasuo with 200 ping, your wind wall is the least of your problems.

The Bard DogMay 22, 20151 votes

that's not the point of what he's saying. the point is, that it starts from the instant it casts, because people with different pings (west coast vs east coast) will take unnecessary damage if it doesn't.

how fair would it be for a mid lane mage to have an insane advantage over yasuo just because the mage lives in CA, while yasuo lives in New york?

Slamurai JackMay 21, 20158 votes

Hi Yasuo main here. To answer your question, yes his wall is working as intended. Despite what the animation looks like, Wind wall actually materializes inside of Yasuo's hitbox the moment he casts it and then moves towards the cast location. This means that you can block projectiles that seemingly should have hit you, and you even block projectiles throwing the wall the wrong way if your timing is precise enough.

RasCaelestisMay 21, 20152 votes

Example of that second thing here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXqPu80DUHM
Just a heads-up, the clip has really annoying music. It does perfectly show a 'backwards' Windwall block though.
The same is also shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QFJE7uTO5M

I hate it and it makes no sense, but unfortunately this is "working as intended."

DrCyanideMay 21, 20152 votes

I always feel cheated when he fires windwall the wrong way and it still causes me to miss something.

He gets to fire his skillshot the wrong way and have it work, but I have to actually aim mine?

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20156 votes

Yasuo blocking an incoming spell with Wind Wall is not any different from Sivir or Nocturne blocking a traveling spell with their Spell Shield. They pressed the "block spell" button, and it blocked a spell that was about to hit them. Functioning as it should.

Yes, Wind Wall can potentially block more than one thing. If you throw every spell you have at Yasuo when you know his Wind Wall is off CD, you deserve to lose all of your damage.

KingTahlenMay 21, 20152 votes

When SIvir uses her shield it is on her giving the impression that she blocks it before the projectile gets to her. Yasuo can cast the shield anywhere in front of him. This gives the impression that a skill shot has already passed the spot where the wall is and should be hitting him. Furthermore if you get beside the wall you can hit him therefore it is actually not the same as Sivir.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 201513 votes

If you've actually played as Yasuo--or even spent a second watching the animation--he gives the impression of creating the wall and pushing it forward. As opposed to Anivia's Ice Wall, which just appears out of nowhere, it's closer to Azir's Emperor's Divide, where the wall appears at his location and then travels forward.

While Wind Wall is a lot harder to see than a wall of centurions, it's still the same premise.

I did not say "the same as" Sivir, I said that blocking an incoming spell is not different, whether by Wind Wall or Spell Shield. A spell was cast about a tenth of a second before the missile hits them, and the missile is destroyed. Same result, slightly different means.

Ariel the CruelMay 21, 20151 votes

Technically, Azir's ult starts behind him. I use this to deny Zed's all the time. XD Not sure about wind wall, though I do know it travels.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20151 votes

Oh, that's cool, I didn't know that.

With Yasuo's, it doesn't start behind him, but it is just wide enough that I have seen him block shots just barely with a backwards Wind Wall. As cool as it was, it didn't really help him because it went the wrong way...but still, I saw it once.

ArkenStormMay 21, 20151 votes

it actually originates in the center of his hitbox and moves outward if you want to know

WalkingInACircleMay 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo blocking an incoming spell with Wind Wall is not any different from Sivir or Nocturne blocking a traveling spell with their Spell Shield. They pressed the "block spell" button, and it blocked a spell that was about to hit them. Functioning as it should.

Yes, Wind Wall can potentially block more than one thing. If you throw every spell you have at Yasuo when you know his Wind Wall is off CD, you deserve to lose all of your damage.

Yeah! A massive AoE zone that shuts down all projectiles from all enemies for a long period is the same as blocking one spell on one champ with good timing! And anyone who says otherwise is just a noob! NOOBS I SAY!

KingTahlenMay 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah! A massive AoE zone that shuts down all projectiles from all enemies for a long period is the same as blocking one spell on one champ with good timing! And anyone who says otherwise is just a noob! NOOBS I SAY!

Yeah JustMyBassCannon doesn't get it

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 201510 votes

Let me refer you to this.

{quoted}

Again, you are taking what I said out of context.

Yasuo being able to block a spell that's incoming with Wind Wall, instead of having to cast it before the other spell is even in flight--What the original post is actually talking about--is no different than doing the same thing with any shield in the game.

You do not get to rebrand what I say for your own purpose. I'm a debater, not a politician.

ArkenStormMay 21, 20153 votes

to be honest, I think JustMyBassCannon is one of the few who actually DOES get it, and is pretty darn neutral about it, says it straight.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20155 votes

Again, you are taking what I said out of context.

Yasuo being able to block a spell that's incoming with Wind Wall, instead of having to cast it before the other spell is even in flight--What the original post is actually talking about--is no different than doing the same thing with any shield in the game.

WalkingInACircleMay 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Again, you are taking what I said out of context.

Yasuo being able to block a spell that's incoming with Wind Wall, instead of having to cast it before the other spell is even in flight--What the original post is actually talking about--is no different than doing the same thing with any shield in the game.

Did I misinterpret the OP before or after he explicity agreed with me and said you were wrong?

Anyways, this is the part of your post I responded too:

Yes, Wind Wall can potentially block more than one thing. If you throw every spell you have at Yasuo when you know his Wind Wall is off CD, you >deserve to lose all of your damage.

Oh, yeah, that part.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Did I misinterpret the OP before or after he explicity agreed with me and said you were wrong?

I don't give a damn that the writer of the original post is agreeing with you when it comes to my comparison. I am referring to this.

{quoted}

Lately I have been playing mid and in many games have had Yasuo as my opponent. I have found that many skillshots that should be hitting Yasuo are negated even by a windwall that is casted late. What I mean to say a shot that appears to basically hit him is negated by a late cast windwall.

I was responding to this. And, when you actually take what I said in the right context, it's an accurate answer. But, no, let's just play dick-measuring because the person who wrote the damn thing and then forgot about it is agreeing with your opinion.

Anyways, this is the part of your post I responded too:

Oh, yeah, that part.

It's not any different than if you were to throw all of your burst at an HP shield, or a Kayle ult target, or a Braum wall for crying out loud.

"But Braum still takes damage--"

Massively reduced damage, to the point where if he dies during Unbreakable, he was probably at low HP and/or hit by true damage. And Braum is about taking the damage for someone else, so if you weren't targeting Braum, it's still lost damage because it's not hitting the person you wanted to kill.

In ALL of these cases, the damage is not hitting your target. Whether it hit a different target, or the target used Substitute, or just disappeared into the Æther entirely is irrelevant, because the point is damage redirection.

I was comparing two different means of completely negating a projectile that looked like it was about to hit the target, and saying that the ability to block a spell at the point of impact is not unique to Yasuo's Wind Wall. You then blindly decided, because I mentioned the fact that blowing all of your damage on Yasuo when Wind Wall is up is about as smart as chasing Singed, that you should take what I said out of context, and imply I was saying something different.

Neither of you are listening to what I say. You are hearing only what you want to hear. Coupled with the fact that it's impossible to change another person's opinion, you won't need to worry about further responses from me.

o9y9pcvBhdMay 21, 20152 votes

The funny thing is Braums shield is even MORE forgiving about blocking skill shots yet no one complains

(btw i think braum is balanced not trying to create a hate thread here)

DurzakaMay 21, 20154 votes

The spell originates from his body, not his sword.

It is intended behavior.

Icestar1186May 21, 20153 votes

Wind wall starts at his body and moves out. Therefore, the only way to cast it "late" is to already have been hit. However, Yasuo does not completely negate ranged champions. You can just: 1. Go around it 2. Wait for it to go away 3. Try to bait it, then blow him up when he wastes it 4. Not shoot projectiles at it while it's there

BorblandMay 21, 20153 votes

Windwall is the most toxic ability anyway.

As a skillshot main mage, I just plain hate it when we lose a game cause Yasuo pulled a lucky wall at the last moment when I used my entiere combo as Lux or Vel'Koz, then anyway but my ult gets absorbed.

This is just pure toxic, Braum's isnt that bad, because he still takes some damage, and he needs really good positionning.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Braum's isn't that bad, because he still takes some damage, and he needs really good positioning.

Unless you were focusing Braum (yeah, let's focus a tank, that's a great idea), the fact that the first projectile is totally negated, and all others are going to be dealing less than half damage (between his W's resistance bonuses and his E's 30-40% DR), the fact that he took damage does not change the fact that it is so massively reduced, and it was still a waste because it wasn't even hitting the person you want to kill first.

And he doesn't need "really good positioning" when he can just jump onto the person you're targeting.

I am in no way claiming that Braum is overpowered; only that his projectile blocking is superior to Yasuo's.

ActualPainMay 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Windwall is the most toxic ability anyway.

As a skillshot main mage, I just plain hate it when we lose a game cause Yasuo pulled a lucky wall at the last moment when I used my entiere combo as Lux or Vel'Koz, then anyway but my ult gets absorbed.

THATS NOT LUCK

YossarianSenseiMay 21, 20153 votes

The wall comes out from Yasuo so he can cast any time before the projectile actually does damage to him

Either way, under normal circumstances you'd never get a 'laggy' windwall - all these calculations are done server side.

TelepathismMay 21, 20153 votes

Pro tip, ranged auto attacks are the most OP thing in the game. Use them until he all-ins or uses his wall, otherwise risk having him block your skillshot.

DisasterSolaMay 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Good evening,

Lately I have been playing mid and in many games have had Yasuo as my opponent. I have found that many skillshots that should be hitting Yasuo are negated even by a windwall that is casted late. What I mean to say a shot that appears to basically hit him is negated by a late cast windwall. To me this seems broken. Skillshots seem a bit pointless when a Yasuo can cast windwall on a skillshot that has already passed his windwall area.

Is this intended? If so it is some very sloppy programming.

It is intended. If any part of the hit box clashes with windwall, it gets eaten.

Its one of the reasons why yasuo is overpowered - he completely negates entire classes of champions.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Its one of the reasons why yasuo is overpowered - he completely negates entire classes of champions.

In the same way that Jax negates everyone that relies on basic attacks, right?

Ariel the CruelMay 21, 20151 votes

Interestingly, This isn't always the case with Braum's Unbreakable. A hand full of abilities that will be partially blocked (Nami ult) or cut off (braum ult) will be completely deleted by wind wall.

Because updating wind wall was to much work . . ?

DisasterSolaMay 21, 20152 votes

You seem to forget that yasuo's windwall blocks ALL PROJECTILES >_>'' Including ranged basic attacks. And jax dodge is a relic of the past. And leaves him vulnerable to counterplay.

The only counterplay to windwall is melee. Which isnt counterplay at all.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20156 votes

No, I'm not "forgetting" anything. I'm completely aware of just how stupid it is to say that Jax's Dodge negates attack-based champions.

I'm also aware of how stupid it is to say that Wind Wall negates ranged champions, or even projectile champions. It's not any more negating than heals, shields, defense steroids, revives or goddamned invulnerability, all of which are considered balanced parts of the game.

DisasterSolaMay 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No, I'm not "forgetting" anything. I'm completely aware of just how stupid it is to say that Jax's Dodge negates attack-based champions.

I'm also aware of how stupid it is to say that Wind Wall negates ranged champions, or even projectile champions. It's not any more negating than heals, shields, defense steroids, revives or goddamned invulnerability, all of which are considered balanced parts of the game.

Invis skills are also very much so considered toxic - so much so that they are entirely on ultimates. Yasuo's wind wall has 0 counterplay from most of the meta.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Invis skills are also very much so considered toxic - so much so that they are entirely on ultimates.

Invincibility and invisibility are different things, and invulnerability is not considered toxic. If it was, it wouldn't exist. As for only being on ultimates, Hello Zhonya's Hourglass

Yasuo's wind wall has 0 counterplay from most of the meta.

Which is why he's currently dominating the meta as 100% pick or ban--oh, wait, no, he's not.

Loken StoneheartMay 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Invincibility and invisibility are different things, and invulnerability is not considered toxic. If it was, it wouldn't exist. As for only being on ultimates, Hello Zhonya's Hourglass

Which is why he's currently dominating the meta as 100% pick or ban--oh, wait, no, he's not.

I... what? If it was toxic, it wouldnt exist in the game?

Hello? Nidalee? Hows about Lee Sin? Yasuo's kit? Things like Ryze or Jax?

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20154 votes

Lee Sin is not a toxic mechanic. Neither is Nidalee, Yasuo, old Ryze or old Jax.

Dodge Chance was a toxic mechanic. Wit's End had mana burn, and that was a toxic mechanic.

You don't seem to understand what actually defines toxic mechanics.

o9y9pcvBhdMay 21, 20151 votes

^ People don't understand pain unless they played with those in place.

DisasterSolaMay 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Invincibility and invisibility are different things, and invulnerability is not considered toxic. If it was, it wouldn't exist. As for only being on ultimates, Hello Zhonya's Hourglass

Which is why he's currently dominating the meta as 100% pick or ban--oh, wait, no, he's not.

Im sorry, let me explain to you what invis means (as its a rather dated videogame term); During the megaman battlenetwork era of gameboy games, there was an ability called "invis" which did the functions of "invincibility" and "invisibility". To those of us from that era of gaming, who were into those kind of games, the term "invis" means "cant be damaged" and is used interchangeably with either of the two.

As for your post, invuln IS considered toxic. Why do you think theres ONLY two things in the game that have it? Why do you think Zhonyas is in 80% of all mage builds? Why do you think its called "trolling with zhonyas"?

And for your yasuo comment.... Not once did i say yasuo himself is meta, or that he is used all that often. I said windwall has zero counter play from most of the meta, due to the meta being primarily skillshot based mobility champions. Theres stronger options that yasuo, but laning against a yasuo, unless youre resourceless, is a massive pain in the ass.

You dont see Olaf in the meta, despite having hard CC immunity on his ult. You dont see maw of malmortus in the meta, despite having the same kind of shield as morgs black shield (sans the CC immunity. Because its totally fair to have total CC immunity for 5 seconds with a 6 second downtime instead of on the item specialized for survivability against magic damage)

~~Also its just a little suspicious that you have so many upvotes and those of us who disagree with you have more or less the same number of downvotes. Almost as if you upvoted yourself...~~

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Im sorry, let me explain to you what invis means (as its a rather dated videogame term); During the megaman battlenetwork era of gameboy games, there was an ability called "invis" which did the functions of "invincibility" and "invisibility". To those of us from that era of gaming, who were into those kind of games, the term "invis" means "cant be damaged" and is used interchangeably with either of the two.

I grew up in that era. However, I also grew up playing games that separated the two effects, and using an outdated term that is inaccurate on a more complex design is anachronistic, at best.

As for your post, invuln IS considered toxic. Why do you think theres ONLY two things in the game that have it? Why do you think Zhonyas is in 80% of all mage builds? Why do you think its called "trolling with zhonyas"?

It exists in limited amounts. That doesn't mean it's toxic, that means it has the potential to be insanely powerful if given to literally anyone.

Poppy has invulnerability, and unless I heard incorrectly, it's one of the kit elements they plan to keep when they rework her.

Zhonya's is in most mage builds because there are some mages who need it to function, and others can't survive a fight against AD opponents without it. Kind of like how Lifesteal is in nearly 100% of all AD champion builds, even on assassins. That doesn't make Lifesteal toxic.

And for your yasuo comment.... Not once did i say yasuo himself is meta, or that he is used all that often. I said windwall has zero counter play from most of the meta, due to the meta being primarily skillshot based mobility champions. Theres stronger options that yasuo, but laning against a yasuo, unless you're resourceless, is a massive pain in the ass.

You said, and I quote,

{quoted}

Yasuo's wind wall has 0 counterplay from most of the meta.

Which would imply that he is a good choice in the current meta. If the current meta doesn't have counter-play to Yasuo, then it's obviously a smart choice, if not the absolute best one. That's how a meta works.

You need to be careful of what your words imply.

You don't see Olaf in the meta, despite having hard CC immunity on his ult.

Because CC immunity doesn't account for mobility or sticking power, which Olaf--in comparison to any bruiser--is lacking. And it's not a CC-heavy meta, or an AoE CC meta.

And if it was the CC meta, you could and possibly would see Olaf as the follow-up to allies' CC.

You dont see maw of malmortus in the meta, despite having the same kind of shield as morgs black shield (sans the CC immunity. Because its totally fair to have total CC immunity for 5 seconds with a 6 second downtime instead of on the item specialized for survivability against magic damage)

Maw of Malmortius was designed for surviving magic damage, and it does exactly that. If you're AD-scaled and you need MR, you build Maw. By definition, it can't be "meta" because it's a situational pick.

~~Also its just a little suspicious that you have so many upvotes and those of us who disagree with you have more or less the same number of downvotes. Almost as if you upvoted yourself...~~

Cute. I'm not bored enough to create a dozen accounts, and log off and on over and over just to play with the Reddick system. If other people are agreeing/disagreeing with what is said, and they don't want to write their own reply, I have no problem either way. You wouldn't see me making the same comment if our positions were reversed.

Fun fact, I actually have not hit a single down-vote button anywhere in this thread.

The Bearded BardMay 21, 20152 votes

I just think the wall should be one sided. If you shoot a projectile into the back of it, it shouldn't be erased.

JustMyBassCannonMay 21, 20153 votes

Except Wind Wall is a barrier of chaotic wind patterns that force projectiles off target. It's based on--not perfectly mimicking--the DnD spell of the same name, which is used to make ranged combat inviable. Now, obviously, tabletop and MOBA are two different game genres, so Yasuo's Wind Wall can't perfectly copy the origin spell, but the idea is still the same. It is a barrier of wind.

Akali is SO HOTMay 21, 20152 votes

The wall starts from the center of Yasuo's body but goes out very quickly (which is why it seems that it starts a few units away from him) meaning he can block projectiles very close to him. To prevent weird interactions he is immune to projectiles when using it for a VERY short amount of time which is also why he can block projectiles very close to him. Intended

I Main SwainMay 22, 20152 votes

don't forget the moments when he windwalls the wrong direction and still blocks the ability coming from the complete opposite direction -_-

Mal the RedMay 21, 20151 votes

Wind Wall has an extraordinarily long cooldown for a non-ult ability. And it's not like many Yasuo will build CDR.

It's as easy as baiting it out and then unloading on him when it disappears.

Baron of BreadMay 21, 20151 votes

Wind wall is a projectile that comes from Yasuo and expands as it travels. You combine that with a little bit of latency and it can seem like Yasuo shouldn't be blocking what he does.

And yeah, latency can be a problem. There is no real way to fix that (other than having less latency, but that isn't fully in Riot's hands).