Ok Riot these Rek'Sai nerfs really need to end

Nidalee SO NYAAA·Aug 15, 2016·60 votes·3,789 views

I understand shes big in LC$ but it's getting to the point you ruining her for solo Q. Shes just a LCS champ at this point

54 Comments

Lord AzırAug 15, 201618 votes

This is how I felt exactly about Azir . Azir use to be a popular mid laner and now 80% of mains I know that have played him since release dropped in all together. Not even the pros touch him anymore.

Yet people still seem to think he needs even more nerfs despite being the lowest winrate champion in game.

TormentulaAug 15, 201618 votes

Like seriously riot... rek'sai is almost useless as a soloq champion, you'd think you'll increase her damage so she can actually solo carry/climb ratings on her own but instead you nerf her so she can't do anything period in soloq. Her communication aspect in her vision control was nerfed meaning its not as effective.. her map pressure was nerfed so she can't do jungle/get to lanes quicker when she barely could do anything when she got there.. and now her escape/tunnel setup/engage/disengage is completely unreliable and inconsistent on a constant cooldown?

I better get that level 7 on rek before the next patch cause no way in hell am I playing her on my own with all these changes.

YCitizenSnipsYAug 16, 20167 votes

http://www.champion.gg/champion/RekSai/Jungle

She has a 6% play rate and about a 50% win rate. "Almost useless"

Also her vision and map pressure is the main reason she is 100% pick rate in the LCS so I don't get the idea where you thin those are bad.

TormentulaAug 16, 20163 votes

{quoted}

http://www.champion.gg/champion/RekSai/Jungle

She has a 6% play rate and about a 50% win rate. "Almost useless"

Also her vision and map pressure is the main reason she is 100% pick rate in the LCS so I don't get the idea where you thin those are bad.

In diamond/challenger players can work with a rek'sai either way. Even if you're not duoing with somebody, they know how to follow up with ganks/disengage. Rek'sai requires a lot of coordination, not just with engages (not too different from gnar's engages, you can just go in) but with ganks/vision control.

Her vision and map pressure is why she is picked in LCS but not soloq, and the strengths she does have with tremor sense and ulti is very good for an individual rek'sai player to atleast ping or something, with the tremor nerf its nearly impossible to accurately detect where somebody is. Sure it's a "hint" in FoW which is better than nothing at all, which is strong enough for LCS, but not soloq play.

At this point the only people below plat elo that pick rek either are rek mains or she's their pocket pick for a tank team comp.

If they want to go through with nerfing all her LCS "op" traits, then they should atleast captilize and buff her damage, since ulti, tunnel, and tremor is so weak it should feel more rewarding for using them properly than wasteful with their cooldown nerfs.

ForgiveColourAug 16, 20163 votes

I spectated a silver reksai main game once. He had 2 tunnels on the map whole game and complained how he cant farm fast enough. I think she is only useless to baddies lmfao

TormentulaAug 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I spectated a silver reksai main game once. He had 2 tunnels on the map whole game and complained how he cant farm fast enough. I think she is only useless to baddies lmfao

At the same time tunnels have a pretty high CD and are necessary for rek'sai to gank/get around the map/disengage. Its tricky to micro manage your tunnels unless you mindlessly spam them.

I'm one token away from level 7 on rek, and I can say its game specific, I either have tunnels all over my jungle for all my camps either because the game is slow and people are pushing, or I have almost no tunnels in my jungle cause I'm camping lanes or counter jungling and need them to escape/engage.

In my last game I had about a consistent 3 tunnels up, 2 in my red side jg, usually none by blue buff since I camped mid/bot and saved tunnels knowing an engage mid or bot were priorities, and one in my base near fountain for whatever reason (I like to say its just a free escape TP insurrance, but in reality its just to leave base quicker). With that lack of tunnel control, I managed to get an S+ with an afk (4v5) on my side.

I wouldn't say its just bad rek'sai mains claiming she's weak (don't even main her) but people that play with rek'sais, and her general performance as a soloq champion in low/mid elo is pretty weak.. you can't even compare her to champs like nidalee or azir in performance as rek'sai isn't even mechanically difficult, just undertuned in about everything besides tank stat in soloq. Wouldn't mind a knock up/slow increase or a fury gain buff to make up for all the "vision/tunnel/map pressure" they're taking away.

Blue Moon WolfAug 15, 20163 votes

I was saying this would happen before he got all the nerfs and people wouldn't listen. I'm just hoping that with his win rate so low right now, he can at least get his ult buffed back up so it actually feels useful at lvl 1.

chubs1224Aug 16, 20162 votes

Down voted for his and he

Blue Moon WolfAug 16, 20166 votes

downvoted for failing at being a grammer nazi.

chubs1224Aug 16, 20162 votes

Upvoted for correcting my correction

PROJECT KatarìnaAug 16, 20161 votes

I got yo back

CeexSettAug 16, 20162 votes

Wow did you just get 5 downvotes because you incorrectly assumed rek'Sai's gender? What if IT identifies as a transfluid male?

Blue Moon WolfAug 16, 20163 votes

I was talking about Azir . You'd think people would get that from replying to a comment talking about Azir and I say "him", I'd be talking about Azir.

CeexSettAug 16, 20161 votes

There were so many comments in the way I dind't even understand.

MagicDragon300Aug 16, 20162 votes

You know Rek Sai is a grill, right?

Blue Moon WolfAug 16, 20161 votes

I was talking about Azir . I assumed that was obvious from the previous comment being about AZIR, not Rek'Sai. Which yes, I know she is a female.

PiVoRxAug 16, 20162 votes

Azir is a champion that doesent fit in moba style of game, he wasnt being thought about frustration level of playing against him, taking damage from half of the lane by minions that cannot be touched could never be fun.

Vistha KaiAug 16, 20161 votes

https://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg?noredirect

The way I see it - despite what statistics say - is people still think he needs nerfs, because the very thing that made him... let's say, annoying in the past is still there. That thing being his early game. W-AA-Q-AA-TLD with next-to-zero counterplay.

That thing is unchanged for god-knows how long, instead Riot opted to nerf everything except that. The end result is he is still just as annoying when it matters the most, but his mid-game and late-game are crap as he has like half the utility he had and can't take the most important objectives (aka towers) as effectively.

I feel like, if they'd revert all those nerfs and rebalance his early game, he'd be both healthier and balanced.

But imagine this: Riot admitting they made a mistake and reverting changes on live.

Like that will EVER happen.

Lord AzırAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2016-08-16T16:02:07.807+0000)

https://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg?noredirect

The way I see it - despite what statistics say - is people still think he needs nerfs, because the very thing that made him... let's say, annoying in the past is still there. That thing being his early game. W-AA-Q-AA-TLD with next-to-zero counterplay.

That thing is unchanged for god-knows how long, instead Riot opted to nerf everything except that. The end result is he is still just as annoying when it matters the most, but his mid-game and late-game are crap as he has like half the utility he had and can't take the most important objectives (aka towers) as effectively.

I feel like, if they'd revert all those nerfs and rebalance his early game, he'd be both healthier and balanced.

But imagine this: Riot admitting they made a mistake and reverting changes on live.

Like that will EVER happen.

But annoying to play against doesn't mean over powered. It's like Zed . He may be aids to play against but I find even if Zed gets really far ahead he can't really do shit with it and is useless in team fights.

Vistha KaiAug 16, 20161 votes

It doesn't matter.

It's about people's perception of the problem. "Can't get past this, so it's stupid."

However I did play some Azir myself, to see how it feels on the other side and I've got to say, I felt bad about it. Azir's early game was and - possibly still is - very cheap, borderline OP even.

Basically I had some general idea from playing against him as to what to do and... went to the lane and forced the other guy out of lane twice before going OOM myself. In ranked. In high Plat (at the time). In my, like, 3rd game with him (previous matches were at least half a year before that where bugs were basically making him unplayable and all the Shurima Shuffle stuff wasn't even "official").

Not amount of nerfs to his late or mid game will remove that annoyance factor.

This is where Riot failed balancing Azir.

Lord AzırAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=0000000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-16T22:48:34.069+0000)

It doesn't matter.

It's about people's perception of the problem. "Can't get past this, so it's stupid."

However I did play some Azir myself, to see how it feels on the other side and I've got to say, I felt bad about it. Azir's early game was and - possibly still is - very cheap, borderline OP even.

Basically I had some general idea from playing against him as to what to do and... went to the lane and forced the other guy out of lane twice before going OOM myself. In ranked. In high Plat (at the time). In my, like, 3rd game with him (previous matches were at least half a year before that where bugs were basically making him unplayable and all the Shurima Shuffle stuff wasn't even "official").

Not amount of nerfs to his late or mid game will remove that annoyance factor.

This is where Riot failed balancing Azir.

Borderline OP? If you try playing Azir at a decent elo Diamond+ if you ever use that Q to poke in lane you will most likely get ganked and be killed. He doesn't do near as much damage as other mid laners both early and mid game. You have to poke them down over time, while most other mids can do 80% of your HP in 1 spell rotation at level 6

chipndip1Aug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=L0RD AZIR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-15T22:39:11.848+0000)

This is how I felt exactly about . Azir use to be a popular mid laner and now 80% of mains I know that have played him since release dropped in all together. Not even the pros touch him anymore.

Yet people still seem to think he needs even more nerfs despite being the lowest winrate champion in game.

Win rates don't matter!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Lord AzırAug 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Win rates don't matter!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

When a champion has a 41% winrate in Diamond + they sure do

chipndip1Aug 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=L0RD AZIR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=000000040000,timestamp=2016-08-16T22:31:24.688+0000)

When a champion has a 41% winrate in Diamond + they sure do

It was sarcasm. Of course they matter. They ALWAYS matter. Now of course they aren't the only deciding factor, but they don't just stop mattering.

PapaGreg21Aug 15, 20165 votes

I loved reksai when she came out but I am silver and just feel useless with her at this point so I gave up on her. Thanks LCS

YCitizenSnipsYAug 16, 20161 votes

That moment when you realize despite all those nerfs that pro players keep playing her because of how much stronger of a jungler she is then most of the pool.

DroogzyAug 16, 20163 votes

She's played because she has the best vision control of all junglers, something that pro players value the most in a jungle champion. Unfortunately, she's being forced to pay a heavy price for it.

Mecha IncognitoAug 16, 20161 votes

That's something ALL players should value. It's extremely powerful to be able to control the map so hard & have essentially true vision moving around the map (which helps stunt the already unpopular stealth champions chances of being picked even further).

Though they should look to balance between all elos, I don't think Rek'Sai in particular can be balanced for lower elos without completely dominating high elo.

Besides that, I think maybe a nerf to Nidalee and Graves still, so we can see someone jungling besides Rek'Sai, Gragas, Nidalee or Graves.

CasterGilgameshAug 16, 20161 votes

stealth champions arent being picked becuase of RekSai they arent picked because riot guts all of them

Mecha IncognitoAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dirty Riven,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-16T19:05:10.911+0000)

the already unpopular stealth champions

I know it's not because of her alone, but having Rek'Sai in the game makes them even less popular, so if they take her down a peg or two, they might see at least a little play.

CasterGilgameshAug 16, 20161 votes

with how riot guts them i doubt they even want them around at all

DroogzyAug 16, 20161 votes

Of course, vision control should be something that is most valued by all players...the problem is though Rek'Sai is going to be nerfed to a point where she's just a tremor/knock-up bot because her tremor and preyseeker holds so much power, unfortunately that comes at the cost of damage...mobility, pressure, basically everything else in her kit unfortunately. And its just doesn't seem like a fun road to go down.

It doesn't help either that pros recently discovered that Tiamat rush makes her clears insane (Pardon me while I cry in a corner for having one of my secrets discovered with her.) making her seemingly stronger then she is when its more or less the item is just insanely strong for clears for any AD jungle champion currently.

But I have no idea what they can do with her at this point. She's being balanced purely around LCS from what it seems as her win rate isn't even substantial currently (49%), her play rate is 10% which is respectable which means she is popular, but base on her win rate, she's popular because she's fun, not because she's OP. And her ban rate is something like 2%.

She is a reason why we have basically never seen Evelynn this season. Usually, once a season, Evelynn becomes popular for a week or two just because pros forget how to play against perma-stealth. But since Rek'Sai has been released, she hasn't even been a consideration.

That and her early damage is just straight gutted.

Witch of BabylonAug 16, 20165 votes

It would be funny if Riot made some champions that can only be played in the LCS.

Only Play DariusAug 15, 20163 votes

Only the best for the underground predator that builds pure tank and is abused as a flash-knockup bot

chipndip1Aug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-15T23:59:12.429+0000)

Only the best for the underground predator that builds pure tank and is abused as a flash-knockup bot

Upvoted. Gotchu fam.

PiVoRxAug 16, 20163 votes

The only thing i see around D3 elo is RekSai . Wall-through gank with a knockback and 300 damage Q pre 6 is just bullshit. Reksai has the same issue like every item-less champion, insanely and always strong no matter of the stage of the game cause she just dont need items to deal damage.

BlakiepugAug 16, 20162 votes

Don't make another Azir !!! Riot, you monsters! >:(

The Yetii RiderAug 16, 20162 votes

Worlds is about to happen. If you don't want to see Rek'Sai 100% pick/ban, these nerfs are important.

Blue Moon WolfAug 15, 20161 votes

I've been saying the same thing about balancing champs around LC$ in general. Yes, the pros might be wrecking everyone with a champ, but that doesn't mean that champ is doing well with a majority of the ranks. They buff or nerf a champ for LC$ and suddenly the champ becomes broken one way or the other in anything lower than platinum. Then we are stuck with that champ being like that for ages while they either try to figure out something to only affect lower ranks or they get some kind of kit update.

DarkRitualAug 16, 20162 votes

I'd just like to see some actual diversity. The LCS meta is currently absurdly stale. Some are still adjusting to this patch, but I don't expect to see any huge variations by the end of playoffs. If you look at the Bo5 series, it's generally 100% same champs either picked or banned, every game in the series. Of those, you will see probably 90-100% of the same champs picked/banned next series too.

Jubilee PhoenixAug 16, 20161 votes

IMO rek'sai is a god in very high elo and competitive, but is shit in low and mid elo. As long as pros and high elo players abuse rek'sais kit riot doesn't care if she's doing shit in mid and low elo.

CasterGilgameshAug 16, 20161 votes

at this point might as well just remove her from normal players and have her become an LCS only champion with all the nerfs she gets

invisiblecat1Aug 16, 20161 votes

Same with Elise, her kit is so complex that it seems like she was made for the LC$

TormentulaAug 16, 20169 votes

{quoted}

Same with Elise, her kit is so complex that it seems like she was made for the LC$

as a onetrick elise, she's very fit for soloq. If anything she's one of the strongest soloq champs, but because of her high mechanical kit, not too many people pick up on her. She also has a tendacy of coming in and out of the meta randomly so not too many elise players stick to her.

Serika ZeroAug 16, 20162 votes

Amumu would be the best soloq jungler as he can gank early, scales nicely, provides great team fight powers and doesn't die very quickly elise would be ok, but not in top 5 http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Jungle sadly she ain't to great Funny, I'd expected rengar to be better but he seems worse than elise atm haha. Funny thou, Kindred is also in a bad spot. To much LC$ for her left her dry.

TormentulaAug 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LlEkoLNN,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-08-16T11:17:27.030+0000)

would be the best soloq jungler as he can gank early, scales nicely, provides great team fight powers and doesn't die very quickly elise would be ok, but not in top 5 http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Jungle sadly she ain't to great Funny, I'd expected rengar to be better but he seems worse than elise atm haha. Funny thou, Kindred is also in a bad spot. To much LC$ for her left her dry.

Elise has mechanics. She's like nidalee but easier to play and not reworked every other patch. I almost never see a positivie w.r on her but her banrate/pick rate seems consistently healthy.

She's strong but it's not hard for an elise player to make mistakes or fall off like a nidalee or azir. Its like saying skarner is broken by his winrate but you never see skarner players to justify that.

Kindred was gutted, she was broken in and out of LCS until they finally got sick of her and got her out of the pick/ban list. Curious what they'll do with her now to make her playable again while not broken.

Blkninjar87Aug 16, 20161 votes

Kindred still broken... she either does nothing or come one shot ur tanks... stupid design

DCYOUNG888Aug 16, 20161 votes

Kalista Kalista too, ever since her nerfs not even pros and soloq players have been playing with her as much as they used to.

ProfirixAug 16, 20161 votes

6 seconds early level for tunnels isn't exactly a small nerf. She doesn't need this...

AdauchiAug 16, 20161 votes

From different games, and including previous nerfs on some champions. I still use the champion I feel most comfortable with, I main Azir. No I'm not anywhere high ranked to say it really changes and yes I lose games but I will not stop playing a champ cause of a nerf unless it's the kind that make him useless.

I will find a way to win, with what I got cause I wanna be the best at the champion and win.