Why the Rylai's changes don't hit the mark

Sanctimonious·11/23/2016, 8:08:50 AM·13 votes·1,431 views

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4mL6T2HN,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-22T20:05:20.917+0000)

Should be on PBE soon (today or tomorrow), ship in 6.24. Will still be an AP/Health item.

The direction is going to be shrinking it down a bit - less cost, less stats, exact numbers still in flux a bit - and flattening the passive out to 20% in all cases, which makes it preferentially better on champions who can apply that slow repeatedly (or when it matters) rather than having the passive attempt to make it comparably valuable over many different types of AP champions.

To me, i'm pretty upset at this change. When i think of Rylai's, i think of an item that's built to counter Divers and Assassins situationally. It should also be an item to enhance low CC mages to make picks or escape. I don't think that lowering the slow gives the item much justice, and that it will still be picked up as a heavy AP item because health is currently in style on mages.

When i heard that you guys were going to change this item, i got super excited and i feel let down. I thought that we were going to bring this item back towards the niche that it may have had in the past. It's mostly used on Sustained DPS mages / Melee who could really use the health and a situational slow. (Morde, Swain, Kayle (Close range), Azir(self peel + Picks))

I think that decreasing the slow is a huge mistake. I think you guys might want to consider a similar solution to Zhonya's (A competing item that does similar things.) Where Zhonya's provides Armor, AP, and CD and a Stasis that allows you to get your cooldowns back, I think Zhonyas is a natural pair and synergy with that item and it should be built that way.

An example that i think might be a better approach: 500 Health (Health is generally good with Armor / MR) 80 AP (It's a utility item. It should not have a high AP amount like Deathcap) Unique Active - Frosty: Slow champions affected by spells by 40% for 8 seconds. 40 second cooldown.

(Edit: I didn't intend for the example to be perfectly balanced, it's sort of an idea. When i put 60%, i wanted to highlight it through hyperbole, that as an active the timing on activation mattered.)

Here's my attempt at friendly feedback. I'd love to hear other opinions on how and why, and a riot response would be absolutely magnificent.

11 Comments

Critmaster Garen11/23/2016, 6:21:19 PM2 votes

which makes it preferentially better on champions who can apply that slow repeatedly

the fact that they decided to keep this interaction is the real issue. its a terrible idea.

i wouldnt be bothered with the item granting a windowed slow to a variety of champions, similar to item 3030

but the fact that theyre intentionally giving out permaslows to ranged champions, and have no intention to revert the situation is just reckless.

at least item 3009 will counter the item again. thank god theyre cutting the slow down enough for slow reductions to be effective again at the very least, if they intend to keep these toxic permaslows in the game.

Sona Ping11/23/2016, 9:31:10 AM1 votes

You are right about Rylai's role in the game, but your suggested change is ridiculous in its strength. Randuin's active is short range with a slow of 35% for 4 seconds (60 second cooldown).

Cocho11/23/2016, 11:47:08 AM1 votes

I would still make the item on kat, which riot apparently didn't really intend.

Activate it, then e, flash, w, ult. Sounds deadly.

Lord Azır11/23/2016, 8:49:15 AM1 votes

Alright so say Evelynn builds this and uses her AoE ult on 5 people. They should all be slowed by 60% for 8 seconds?

Or lux builds it and uses her E.. everyone gets slowed by 60%?

zixus12/1/2016, 3:46:15 AM1 votes

I literally was opening the board so I would start raging about the rylai's changes tell I found this thread, at first when I opened to see the pbe changes there was understandable ups and downs then I found rylai's I thought they might lower the ap and higher the HP to prevent assassins from buying it or lowering the HP and increasing the ap to increase mages's power and make them more squishy and an essential for someone like kata or Leblanc but then seeing the actual changes it was a clear hit in the crotch for all mages the stats were lowered and the passive was halfed , I am totally with mèta on this one Other than that passive, rito... pls don't do this.

God Raijin12/1/2016, 3:51:54 AM1 votes

I feel like these changes are just going to make a lot of champions who already build the item go "online" sooner. basically just making rylais a worse late game item and nothing more.

Mordepool11/23/2016, 1:49:02 PM1 votes

I'll wait to actually SEE the changes before criticizing them.
My questions following will be: what was riots intended effect? did riot cater to abuse cases? Is Mordekaiser fukced?