Why are we punished for client faults?

Sneaky Racoon·Jun 8, 2016·83 votes·3,006 views

I got a game today, which was pretty balanced and in my opionion we would have won. But then suddenly all of my teammembers disconnected. Coincidence? Guess not. Because 3 teammembers of the enemy team disconnected too, at the exact same time. So finally the enemy team finished 2v1 against me. This is not the first time something like this happened. In the end I lost 20 LP for a game we would probably have won.

The Point is, I invest/ed a lot (money and time) in this game and I can't see why the players are punished for those technical problems. I just can't understand why there is still no concept which is able to detect such faults caused by the client...

I guess I'm not the only one with this thoughts and i feel kinda mad about this topic.

What do you guys think about that? I just cant believe there is no possibility to handle this properly.

69 Comments

WolfBVJun 9, 20167 votes

Well League of Legends is still in beta. So expect bugs.

mikemcpartyJun 9, 20161 votes

I love this comment

redniwediSJun 8, 20165 votes

Punished is the wrong word. You're not being punished by the client, or by Riot, or by anything really.

I don't know what word you're looking for to describe a client problem negatively effecting you, but punishment has nothing to do with it.

Sneaky RacoonJun 9, 20167 votes

Yeah, it may be that punished is the wrong word here, but in the end i feel kinda updet that there is still no fault detection which handels this properly.

lofi n chillhopJun 9, 20161 votes

fault detection would open up an abuseable window for cheating. it happens very infrequently... it's unfortunate, but considering it typically takes two years to make it to diamond+ I'd say it's something I'm willing to accept.

DreadlocksJun 9, 20167 votes

inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code. "I have done wrong and I'm being punished for it" synonyms: discipline, teach someone a lesson; More inflict a penalty or sanction on someone for (such an offense). "fraudulent acts would be punished by up to two years in prison" treat (someone) in an unfairly harsh way. "a rise in prescription charges would punish the poor"

Punished fits quite well actually

redniwediSJun 9, 20162 votes

No, it doesn't.

Can you please describe who is inflicting the retributive actions here? What offense did the OP make? What legal, moral, or ToS rule did he break?

No one is punishing him, and he didn't do anything wrong. It doesn't fit.

WimbledofyJun 9, 201610 votes

the game itself would be the punisher, the punishment is the loss of lp.

redniwediSJun 9, 20162 votes

Still doesn't explain what he did wrong, which is of course nothing.

Saying the game is punishing him is just a cop out. Sorry mate.

WimbledofyJun 9, 201610 votes

you don't have to do something wrong to be punished... hence the "why are we being punished" you SHOULDN'T be punished for not doing anything wrong, but you still CAN.

redniwediSJun 9, 20162 votes

Maybe not something "wrong", but you do have to do something. He didn't do anything, no entity wanted retribution, and so it doesn't fit.

Sorry mate, but the definition doesn't agree with you.

DreadlocksJun 9, 201610 votes

You just have poor comprehension skills my friend.

MrPharmDJun 9, 20163 votes

Just ignore him lol.

redniwediSJun 9, 20162 votes

I'm not actually trying to troll or anything. When I look at the definition provided and what the OP said I don't see it working out. The definition seems to require something to do the punishing in order for someone to be punished.

Saying a game or bug is capable of punishing someone simply makes no sense to me unless it's a specific system designed to punish players.

Imagine how it looks to me. Everything seems to make sense one way, and yet everyone else is saying the exact opposite.

I'm all ears if someone can explain to me how a bug is capable of punishing someone. Truly I am.

MrPharmDJun 9, 20164 votes

LP loss = being punished.

redniwediSJun 9, 20161 votes

The LP loss is an unnecessary penalty to the player, no one is going to say otherwise.

All I said is that punished is the wrong word for the situation and the definition seems to back me up.

SchàdenfreudeJun 10, 20163 votes

Punishment: the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.

penalty*

you mentioned that word in that post.

ethier you're dumb or you're trolling.

xShiNjiNxJun 9, 20166 votes

The wrong doing is losing, which results in LP loss. It's a pretty easy concept to understand, and the fact that you cannot is quite laughable.

redniwediSJun 9, 20161 votes

I like how you're saying it's easy to understand, and yet you got what we were talking about wrong.

We're talking about what the OP, as a player, did wrong, not what was done to him that is wrong. Unless you're saying his wrong doing was losing the match, which is complete nonsense, you missed something.

xShiNjiNxJun 10, 20164 votes

Seems like you missed something... and the downvotes back it up.

redniwediSJun 10, 20161 votes

I suspect the downvotes are mainly from the people who are thinking I'm saying the LP loss was not a bad thing, which I'm not. Some are definitely from people who know this argument is about semantics, but based on some of the replies there are definitely people who skimmed the thread and made bad assumptions.

Duke AnaxJun 10, 20161 votes

Nope definitely from you being dumb, not sure if intentionally trolling or actually stupid, but dumb non the less.

redniwediSJun 10, 20161 votes

If you can't tell if I'm trolling or not then either you didn't read much of the thread or I really did a bad job explaining my side of this argument.

Duke AnaxJun 10, 20161 votes

Oh you did an excellent job at explaining. pretty much everyone here understood you perfectly.

JariJun 10, 20162 votes

So if there's a five and a seven year old in a house, and the five year old breaks something, but the seven year old gets grounded for it because he was there, do you not think the seven year old is being punished for something out of his control?

The point is that he didn't do anything wrong, and the system is punishing him because of what happened with another person. If you need another example, it's like if a murderer framed you for his work and you went to jail. You're wrongfully punished right?

redniwediSJun 10, 20161 votes

As with most people who keep coming by this thread to post you're missing what we're actually talking about here.

There's no doubt he was penalized, but the word punish implies an entity to do the punishing and intent to actually punish someone for a reason. It doesn't have to be a good reason, but there does have to be a reason.

That's what this argument was originally about, before people came in to post without fully reading the conversation. At least the OP and I were on the same page after a single back and forth.

JariJun 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

There's no doubt he was penalized, but the word punish implies an entity to do the punishing and intent to actually punish someone for a reason. It doesn't have to be a good reason, but there does have to be a reason.

The entity is the client reading a loss, so there is a reason. I'm saying it's a reason outside of OP's control, and therefor is an unjustified punishment. He was going to win, but lost it because of a sudden crashing of 7 players, the higher end being his. The client doesn't understand because a higher up didn't come in to forgive OP.

That's all I'm saying. That punished IS the right word.

redniwediSJun 10, 20161 votes

Well at least you read what I replied with. Can't say the same about everyone else.

Still, this thread is a day old already. Every point has already been made, and insults have already happened. You're not saying anything new here, and I'm not going to bother reiterating what I've already said.

If people can't be bothered to read the thread before posting I'm just going to stop replying, no matter how reasonable someone replying to me sounds.

DreadlocksJun 10, 20162 votes

Face it kid, you don't comprehend the word punished.

redniwediSJun 10, 20161 votes

I'll face it when someone actually reads what I'm saying and makes an attempt to help me get over the one detail I'm stuck on, which I've pointed out myself. Until then I'm going to ignore assholes like you who would rather ignore me and insult me than read what I'm saying and look at how this definition does not fit the situation the OP is talking about.

It's clearly a penalty, but it's not being inflicted upon him in a way that makes "punished" an accurate word.

DreadlocksJun 10, 20161 votes

Do u not realize the specific definition of many words change based in the context it was used in?

redniwediSJun 10, 20161 votes

Do you not realize that I've been yelled at, insulted, and ridiculed off of what I felt was a simple observation?

The entire reason I made my first post here was because I did not think the definition fit the context of the OP's post. That detail, at the very least, should be blatantly apparent to you.

We disagree with one another. Tough shit. Can we let this thread die already?

TheDarkinLegendJun 9, 20161 votes

[deleted]

redniwediSJun 9, 20161 votes

Can you please describe who is inflicting the retributive actions here? What offense did the OP make? What legal, moral, or ToS rule did he break?

It's a penalty, not a punishment.

71883083DEL1Jun 9, 20163 votes

Just because you have invested $ and time into this game doesn't mean you will be prioritized over others. If you get punished for it, file a support ticket.

Sneaky RacoonJun 9, 201615 votes

I dont want to be prioritized over others ;)

dogownerjrJun 9, 20166 votes

He didn't ask to be prioritized over others. I agree with him completely. He, nor his team, shouldn't be punished for something that was out of the control of literally everyone. Looking at his situation, the problem they had wasn't an individual's internet connection, but a server problem which is something Riot is in control of. If Riot caused a problem of that level, they should, at the very least, make the current game not count towards anything.

SociopathFriendJun 9, 20161 votes

Pretty sure they do something like that- I don't play Ranked (much- although others try to make me) but I've seen it be disabled when problems are going.

dogownerjrJun 9, 20162 votes

Yea, I've seen it disabled also. I get that that's to prevent more people from playing ranked while they're having problems. But, how do you help the people that were already in matches when the problem first started? If they're already a system for this type of problem then I didn't know about it.

DarkRitualJun 9, 20162 votes

That sounds like an internet routing issue, not a game client issue. While Riot has done a lot to set up their internet infrstructure, there are still things that are out of their control. Perhaps an accident occured (hardware faikure, ddos, whatever else) and internet traffic was rerouted and got bottlenecked.

Yeah it sucks when you get ounished for things out of your control, but you have to look and make sure the blame is placed correctly.

Votable JesterJun 9, 20161 votes

It may be worth emailing player support about the incident, but if they can't/don't help you then there's really nothing that can be done about it. For all they know, someone could get their team to leave/disconnect in the hopes of not losing LP.

Sneaky RacoonJun 9, 20162 votes

I am pretty sure the support wont do anything about that, cause a friend of mine once got a similar case and the support replied to him that they wont refund any lp and that he should go duo Q to get LP faster. And yeah someone could force players to leave games but not 5 player at one time. And finally theres a difference between leaving a game or getting disconnected and trying to reconnect.

Votable JesterJun 9, 20161 votes

Yes, there is a difference, but they can't tell, can they? Also I just meant about the people on your team leaving/disconnecting.

Sneaky RacoonJun 9, 20161 votes

They could detect this indeed!

Votable JesterJun 9, 20161 votes

How?

Sneaky RacoonJun 9, 20162 votes

There are several ways to do such things. In this special case it would be very easy, cause it wont happen that 5 people will leave. To check if there are leavers in one team one could simply check if they left at the same second or ms and are not in the same connection or/and premade checks, etc.... But there would be several techniques and checks they could implement to check this out. Indeed you can not assure that all cases are detected but at least some.

ErockandrollJun 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sneaky Racoon,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LTKPe1cz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-09T00:16:26.227+0000)

I am pretty sure the support wont do anything about that, cause a friend of mine once got a similar case and the support replied to him that they wont refund any lp and that he should go duo Q to get LP faster. And yeah someone could force players to leave games but not 5 player at one time. And finally theres a difference between leaving a game or getting disconnected and trying to reconnect.

Riot will always be stingy about remakes of forgiveness because they fear that people will abuse the system and encourage toxicity.

Also, Riot likely has enough tools to determine if the fault is on their end, in which they will turn on loss forgiven. If Just about Everyone DC just as you were about to win, in a ranked match. That actually makes me fear that drop hacking is back.

kaltenashesJun 9, 20161 votes

I am pretty sure the support wont do anything about that, cause a friend of mine once got a similar case and the support replied to him that they wont refund any lp and that he should go duo Q to get LP faster.

Fk that's harsh

DarfallerJun 9, 20161 votes

I believe a fix for this system would be if Riot would have a detector that would mark if someone willingly exited the game, like actually going through that 5 second exit process, rather than being immediately ejected from the game due to crashes or computer malfunctions. That way they can tell the diff by those who go afk or those who are ejected unwillingly out of the game.