Jhin 54% PICK RATE 52% Winrate

Teirist Traran·Feb 16, 2017·100 votes·8,809 views

Jhin ADC 100% Win Rate 5th (51.99%) Pick Rate 1st (54.47%)

https://na.op.gg/champion/jhin/statistics/adc

hard nerfs when?

280 Comments

urineyellowFeb 16, 201734 votes

Until there are real nerfs on PBE for Jhin you will need to wait for another 10 patches knowing riot, until then his pickrate will be probably lower since people are getting sick of him beeing in every game and start banning him :^)

CatSithFeb 16, 201710 votes

There are nerfs to his ultimate's slow so it makes it harder for him to 0-100 you from far away.

NineTailedMysticFeb 16, 20178 votes

Probably not enough. Likely will need hits to Jhin himself or another Lethality hit.

AmazoXFeb 16, 20178 votes

Shall we complain about Ahri on how has she always been a good pick for more than two seasons with a Great Positive Win Rate & Play Rate? JK, Don't get mad @NTM*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

Deity ExcaliburFeb 16, 20176 votes

{quoted}

There are nerfs to his ultimate's slow so it makes it harder for him to 0-100 you from far away.

As a frequent jhin user (or infrequent, got lvl7 on him and haven't been playing him since lethality meta struck in), what needs nerfs are the lethality items and not his damage. Fine you can nerf his ultimate's slow (it is kinda absurd, once you hit one, you'll most likely hit the rest) but other than that, his high winrate relies on the lethality meta and not himself, he has been nerfed plenty of times and doesn't need to get dumpstered.

Over InnsmouthFeb 16, 201726 votes

The nice thing about Jhin is that even when he's too strong - which he is, don't get me wrong. I think he's in need of some nerfs - he's still not even broken.

His design is just that good.

TeCoolMageFeb 16, 20178 votes

most confusing read ever

Over InnsmouthFeb 16, 201717 votes

Jhin is so well designed that even when he's bullshit pick/ban OP broken he doesnt feel bullshit pick/ban OP broken and he's still an absolute pleasure to play against.

Does this help?

NvestmentPlankerFeb 16, 201718 votes

I feel it has mostly to do with his reload mechanic. He has a fair amount of counterplay regardless of how strong he is. Immobile, reloading after 4 shots, skill shot CC. I do not mind Jhin at all like you.

Sahn UzalFeb 16, 201713 votes

His 4th shot is also a big part of his damage and very telegraphed, making it very easy to time a shield or an Exhaust to reduce it's damage.

He's just overall amazingly well designed.

NekoniClawsFeb 16, 201720 votes

Math, with a Jhin main!

ONE! Quinn - 55.2% - item 3142 item 3814 item 3147

...TWO! Talon - 55.2% - item 3142 item 3147 item 3814

THREE... Rengar - 54.2% - item 3142 item 3814 item 3071

FOUR!!! Pantheon - 53.5% - item 3142 item 3147 item 3814

You wanna' know why everyone won't stop playing Jhin this week?

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mgWJ6ntpng8/WJJL3f9sudI/AAAAAAAAdJU/2qIGh9ovxco5mxRujzLZ7FgNC86ke3MEwCLcB/s1600/Jhin_Splash_2.jpg _ GG Rito. Nerf skin, too OPealling! _

For reference, if you really DO just play champions because of winrate, here's who else is doing great:

KogMaw - 56.4% - item 3124 item 3085 item 3022 MissFortune - 54.5% - item 3142 item 3071 item 3814 Draven - 52% - item 3147 Jhin - 52% - item 3031 (Or take Quinn bot. Or anywhere)

Miss Fortune was at 54% with a 20% playrate last week, before people figured out she's not the only one. Not a big dip in winrate either. But she wasn't -everywhere- so no-one cared.

Jhin is flourishing right now, because he is an adc-ASSASSIN, he is designed to kill squishies, in a squishy meta, with a squishy-killing item buff! He's terrible at literally every other ADC responsibility. He dies if he even sees a tank. Balance him with care.

SlythionFeb 16, 201718 votes

These are actually pretty low statistics considering how theproblem is Lethality and not Jhin himself...like...we're talking about a consistent 52% winrate lol...that's actually pretty balanced

There is a difference between gameplay and power level. If you dislike how fast he kills you, then that's a dislike in gameplay. If that attribute actually contributes to his winrate skyrocketting, that's a power level issue. The win rate jumped a whopping total of 1% from the lethality changes, from an already decent 51%

again, the dude isn't broken, just a little strong...

WoonStruckFeb 16, 201735 votes

If any other champion in the game ever hit a 50%+ pickrate, they'd get gutted.

If champion had 47%+ winrate with 30%+ pickrate, they'd get nerfed into near nonviability.

Its pretty fair to say he's busted.

SlythionFeb 16, 201711 votes

they'd get nerfed into near nonviability.

no champion should ever be aimed to be rendered unviable save for a few exceptions (azir/kalista where they didn't know what to do with them but couldn't let them dominate any longer)

Also, next patch has a shjt ton of damage nerfs in both the mastery tree and items, so I don't think Jhin needs any direct changes just because he's a bit strong due to Lethality being drastically overtuned.

WoonStruckFeb 16, 201727 votes

Before Lethality was buffed, his stats weren't much different outside of playrate.

He still needs nerfs after Lethality is hit.

Also, damage nerfs among masteries don't change Jhin's strength because it affects all of the champions he's competing with as well.

He. Needs. Nerfs.

The only question is how large those nerfs should be, and whether it should be to damage or utility.

LankPantsFeb 16, 20178 votes

The only question is how large those nerfs should be, and whether it should be to damage or utility.

If it's going to be targeting his utility then they need to hit his utility hard, not the slow nerfs on the PBE, they ultimately won't do enough. You need to start hitting his W, it's an ultimate spell in terms of power budgeting right now. It's not OK for a champ to have a base spell that snares for 1.75 seconds at Jhin's W range. If Jhin doesn't hit the target himself the W should either be a strong slow for 1.75 or a snare for half that IMO.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 16, 201710 votes

A 1.75 second snare at Rank 5, meaning if he wants that early game, he loses the wave clear and extra damage for his Q. It also has a delay time, meaning it can be easily dodged (unless you want to head into the Chain CC argument, when ANYONE can do that).

If he wants to use it as an escape, he has to auto, and then wait an entire Solid Cast time for it to go through it's wind-up and delay. By picking Jhin, you choose to pick a Carry whose primary target is squishies instead of tanks, and since he is much more mage-like than most adc's, that lack of DPS is made up for in Utility.

SlythionFeb 16, 201712 votes

Also, damage nerfs among masteries don't change Jhin's strength because it affects all of the champions he's competing with as well.

that's false, damage nerfs effect champions in different ways. We can expect these damage nerfs to actually be buffs to juggernauts and divers, because their targets don't have a lot of hp in the first place and their primary weakness right now is the inability to survive. High damage-dealers like ADCs (aka: Jhin) get nerfed by all the % damage reductions wayyy more than someone that only needs to dish out 1.5-2k damage to kill the target.

He. Needs. Nerfs.

You've yet to explain why he needs nerfs...he's has been sitting at a 51-52% win ratio for the past 5+ patches. That's consistence. You know who else has been consistent? Amumu has had a 51-53% win rate for about 2 seasons now. Janna has had a 53%+ win rate for like, 10 seasons (I don't actually know but it's been awhile).

But because Amumu and Janna don't kill you fast, you don't think they're incredibly op. Because Jhin can burst you, you view that as "op" and inherently "game breaking" despite his consistent win-rate that shows the champion itself is only slightly above everyone else.

Basically, you hate how he wins but you don't actually hate how often he wins, otherwise you'd be complaining about wayyy more applicable champs in terms of win-rate and consistency.

Serika ZeroFeb 16, 20176 votes

the problem is consistency with high play rate

a higher play rate = both bad and good players are picking it up but, staying consistent and up in win ratio despite high number of players picking him up shows that this champion is strong enough so that even tho newer players gona naturally suck, the others are gona be very good with him

what I personally dislike about his is his slow traps. And just that. Fine, his range is absurd, but that's his "trope" and "niche"

ÏnsidiousFeb 16, 20178 votes

Agreed. Jhin's winrate is high because non-utility ADC's are just garbage currently, when you discard the champs like kog-maw who are doing well, but played mostly by mains. If you buffed up the weaker ADC's you would see his winrate fall, because currently none of the meta ADC's can punish him really hard in lane, because they are all just utility

Teirist TraranFeb 16, 201710 votes

good thing only Jhin uses damage amplifying masteries! /idiot

WoonStruckFeb 16, 20179 votes

No need for insults tho, tbh.

"/sarcasm" gets the point across without making someone feel attacked.

Guy Fox TeemoFeb 16, 20176 votes

Thats only when the champion is someone like Azir, because Azir is hard to play. Unlike Jhin; Obviously Jhins incredibly powerful atm but you can't compare him to someone like Azir, Zed, or Yasuo. So have a much higher skill floor then Jhin.

LankPantsFeb 16, 20175 votes

If any other champion in the game ever hit a 50%+ pickrate, they'd get gutted.

Can we add the caveat "other than Lee Sin" to that. I'm pretty sure Riot would be happy to let him sit over 50% play rate for a while if he got there.

Yordle XayahFeb 16, 201713 votes

I think this is more a byproduct of item 3142 and item 3814 (with their lethality) being over tuned on ranged champions at the time.

The one-item power spike Jhin or Varus get from just a item 3142 make any ADC that doesn't build lethality completely outclassed at all stages of the game.

NineTailedMysticFeb 16, 20178 votes

Lethality on top of Jhin being rather strong himself. Not to mention how Edge of Night eliminates some of his soft counters like Nami and Bard.

Yordle XayahFeb 16, 20175 votes

I think Riot may be holding on a big Jhin nerf because of the upcoming nerfs to his core items and the slow on his ult. They're probably hoping those facts combined can bring him to a reasonable level without Olaf ing him... is that still a thing? Do people still remember that?

SpoofghoulFeb 16, 20175 votes

i think you mean sioned or sejuani'd

as in nerf them hard

then nerf the items they use

o look they trash and no one plays them anymore didn't see that coming

elon wątrobaFeb 16, 20175 votes

Olaf was butchered into oblivion, seju was still playable.

Pathfinder YasuoFeb 16, 201712 votes

LeeSin in ADC form

you cannot touch the precious Jhin because "the community loves him and the Lc$ BlG Pi@yZ"

AhristocatsFeb 16, 201710 votes

so that's why he's getting nerfed+youmu is being nerfed?

and riot refusing to fixe lethality has nothing to do with jhin

Pathfinder YasuoFeb 16, 20175 votes

30% pick rate before lethality buff 50% after Winrate only went up by 0.75%

doublelift fgFeb 16, 20174 votes

and? 51.25% win rate isn't imbalanced, riot doesn't want every champions to be at 50% jhin had no issues before and no one was complaining about him, riot broke with him with lethality and boom now he needs a nerf

NineTailedMysticFeb 16, 20177 votes

Because he has almost quintuple the Pick Rate of champions who get whined about having ~10% Pick Rate. If a Champion is immensely popular and has a moderately high win rate, something is wrong.

AhristocatsFeb 16, 20176 votes

his pick rate didn't quintuple miss ahri main, it didn't even double, sure the pick rate was massively increased but what did you expect on his win rate? fact that it was increased by only 1% shows that he's fucking well designed that he can't end up too broken

he's getting nerfed, and he was fine before lethality

stop the manipulation, jhin now being broken is a thing, jhin being broken before IS NOT A THING

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 16, 20177 votes

Isn't if funny how youmus gets nerfed once again because of adcs? How about just nerfing the shit out of all ranged abusers. So sick of having items gutted because of this shitclass. Youmus several times now, duskblade, steraks, maw, black cleaver. List goes on.

AhristocatsFeb 16, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Isn't if funny how youmus gets nerfed once again because of adcs?

then you didn't play the game, youmu is gamebreaking on everyone

DormidonFeb 16, 20178 votes

Better nerf Darius

AmazoXFeb 16, 20176 votes

Before this community outbursts into madness, Remember that Lethality buff is the root of this problem.

VeltoxFeb 16, 20176 votes

This post is retarded. A big reason for that playrate is that his kit is damn satisfying to use and arguably one of the best designs in this game. His VO is good too. Wanna discuss lethality? Blame Riot not being able to balance armor pen without making certain items melee-only. item 3142 item 3147 item 3071 item 3814

SlimegoonFeb 16, 20173 votes

Caught Out reduced to 2 seconds. Curtain Call slow reduced to 0.5 seconds.

-20% pick rate right there without gutting the champion.

NineTailedMysticFeb 16, 20178 votes

30% Pick Rate is still immense.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 16, 20177 votes

Can you blame him for being fun to play? He's an ideal choice for people who don't normally play ADC, as he plays a tad like a Mage, kites using his speed buff, not with attack move (for the most part), and has one, if not THE, of the most Thematically powerful ults in the game.

He has his weaknesses, (i.e the time whence he can't fight back, three shots until major impact with fixed attack speed, has to stand still for a solid cast time if he wants to get his CC off to run away).

NineTailedMysticFeb 16, 20176 votes

People whine about Ahri being popular at ~10-12% PR, yet you think Jhin can get away with a 30% PR, let alone a 50% PR and a similar WR?