Ranked Game LP

kelward·Dec 30, 2014·1 votes·1,304 views

I think that ranked is unfair in a way. Gaining and losing LP to decide your rank constantly annoys me by giving me 10-15 LP points for wins but taking away about 20 LP if i lose. I think this is unfair because of the prospect of trolls and toxic teammates or others that ruin the game and destroy the chances of winning. Ranked games should have other deciding factors, for example if someone else on your team disconnects you shouldn't lose 20 LP because of some person who had to go. The takeaway of LP after a loss with a disconnected person or other should be changed so that players are not in Bronze 5 because of trolls and Disconnecters, rage quitters and others. If someone from riot can hear this and recognizes that good change can come to ranked, then maybe ranked will be a better experience for all of us.

15 Comments

xaadus creedusDec 30, 20141 votes

The system itself is fine...its the dumbasses that ragequit cause they couldn't play top riven or mid Fizz that ruin the game.

kelwardDec 30, 20141 votes

I personally think that taking away 20 LP for a loss while only giving 10-15 LP for a win is a little unfair.

Zakt0nFeb 16, 20151 votes

I have 8 more wins than losses.....still at the very bottom, b5 with ZERO LP

that's right ZERO credit even though my teams win more than they lose, no wonder this system makes people toxic

OnegarionFeb 16, 20151 votes

you clearly have no idea how the system works so I'd ask if you don't voice your opinion until you do.

Zakt0nFeb 16, 20151 votes

you clearly have negative input like 90% of this community.

I do know how the MMR works, i used to be below the average, now I am above the average. So when I get an AFK loss I pretty much need to get 2 wins to make up for the points lost (maybe only 1.5 games, as per the MMR system, it just depends on the proportion of players with higher MMR vs players with lower MMR chance has matched me against) So we could banter on and on about the proportions of MMR match ups, the probabilities of getting even match ups or even the negative LP generated by the MMR system every time you play vs lower MMR players yet still lose because your team had an afk. But why bother with such a convoluted system when it is obvious that:

A) 14 more wins than losses was not enough to get out of Bronze5 B) Today my overall record was 8 more wins than losses and negative 18 LP. THAT is a broken system if winning more than losing = negative points. C) It has turned into far too many hours of play required to get a chance to compete vs better players. Win 2/3s of games would be 60 games to get 20 games ahead, well probably 10 afks during that many games so 15-20 more games that have to be wins to make up for those,,,60+10+15 or 20 well that's going on a hundred hours of play for one chance at a series !!!

SOLUTION: A simple and fair system would be if you win more times than you lose after 10 games you advance a rank, lose more games you go down. Presto everyone is playing vs equally skilled opponents.

The MMR system has put many of us into an endless black hole requiring a hundred games for a chance to advance, not because we lose more than win but simple because we have had more afks and feeders while in a "series".

A simple system would allow us to recover from being on the bad luck side of the afk/matchmaking odds, the MMR system makes recovering more and more difficult the more games you play, with the added bonus of getting even harder if you keep winning more than losing ! So that is why I say "NO WONDER THIS SYSTEM MAKES PEOPLE TOXIC"... I clearly know my motivation to play well is gone. I'm not interested in a game where competing gets you no where because you have a good MMR but your team got 70% of the afks in your first 100 games. and clearly I am tired of dealing with people like you that assume others are stupid so you can ask me not to voice my opinion but i will reply "I'll say just exactly what i want to you arrogant, condescending fool"

OnegarionFeb 16, 20151 votes

Let me break it down for you since you, again, don't know how the system works at all.

A) W/L ratio is arbitrary. Its basically just a stat to look good. It means very little in MOBAs. I've held slightly above 50% (meaning even as low as 50.1%) and I made it out of bronze in my first 2 season of play and this season I seeded gold after ending pre-season in Plat.

B) Winning against people who are bad doesn't prove anything. Think of it this way. Tom Brady can go play on a high school team and do amazing. Does it really prove he is good? Thats what this is similar to. You are an above average bad player so beating really bad players means nothing. It proves nothing when this system isn't based around your W/L

C)Thats a delusion since you believe yourself to actually be much higher than you are. In reality you are no better than your opponents.

The MMR system works the way it should. Beating someone with a lower MMR proves nothing. Refer to B for this one. Thats where you are at. The same time Losing to them speaks more to where you are than winning. The system is telling you that your MMR is not where you are and that is why you are stuck with who you are. Ultimately you suck, yea thats blunt but its true. You have tons of things to work on and to actually get better at. If you don't want to put in the time then don't, but don't come here complaining about whats fair and whats not when you don't want to put in the time, but want to be better.

I've been on both the wrong and right side of those streaks. Went from Bronze 2 to Bronze 5 when i first played in season 3. Ended that season in s4 and by preseason made it up to s2. Next season I seeded b1 and made it out in about 10 matches or so. Ended the season G4 and on a streak I made it all the way to promos for plat 4 before it ended. They fluctuate because you let them. Losing to much is a sign you should stop and not continue playing. If you continue to play on a losing streak thats your own issue not the systems.

Actually the MMR system makes it easier to be where you belong. If you want it easier to end bad streaks then good streaks will also be hit and be much less beneficial you can't have one without the other. Right now the system rewards giant win streaks much more heavily than giant losing streaks. If you would like it to soften both you won't be gaining as much anyway even though you'll lose less. Either way you are stuck.

I would love to see a stat where your team got 70% of the afk in 100 games. Even when I was in bronze AFK's where not common. They were more common than when i moved up, but not like you make it out to be.

I don't assume you are stupid. Your own words tell me that you don't understand something and yet you continue to voice your opinion on it. IF you can't understand something then you have no place in speaking on the subject. Thats just common sense. You provide no evidence or help when you understand nothing at all and will only hinder the real work to getting to a true solution.

Zakt0nFeb 17, 20151 votes

nice diatribe but you have said nothing we didn't already know, the MMR system is pretty simple to understand yet you continue to assume other people are not smart enough to realize more points vs better opponents and less points vs worse opponents.

anyways you completely dodged answering why the simple solution wouldn't work better

and obviously you don't understand probability or just choose to act ignorant of the mathematics of chance if you think it's just impossible for some people's teams to end up with 70% of the afks. (or maybe you mis-read, i didn't say there were afks 70% of the time but when it does happen some people will end up with more on their team) It would be nice if it averaged out for everyone but there is always going to be a bell curve of chance with some poor smucks even have 8 or 9 afks on their team for every 1 or 2 on the other team. Which leaves them 6 or 7 games behind, throw in the MMR and they have to get 10 wins to recover the lost points.

I'll never agree that it is a great system when MMR has many people trapped into playing hundreds of games to advance one rank based solely on bad afk odds during promo and/or series play.

So once again i ask...explain the benefit to player behavior and having fun when winning more than losing leaves you with a negative LP value And secondly, how many players are willing to spend 100 hours to get 20 games ahead for 100 LP so they can get into a series. Time destroying endless black hole for 10% of players is what the current system creates.

OnegarionFeb 17, 20151 votes

Here is your answer. You completely ignored my reasoning for not using W/L. My entire point B is why it doesn't matter. Getting a W against people who are worse than you proves absolutely nothing. You beating someone 2 divisions lower doesn't prove that you are good. it shows what should be true and that you, being the higher tier, beats someone lower. I don't see why that should hold more weight than someone who beats a player 2 division higher. Doesn't their win mean more in terms of skill than the other way?

When you expand that to a full team of players it makes even more sense. if a group of bronze players beats a group of silvers doesn't that only mean that the bronze players should gain more than if the silver players won? This is why you can't go off of a simple W/L system. It doesn't account for underdogs winning and would actually hurt those who are already low because they would go against better players. Its only going to keep them down with a system like that.

Now on to math. The probability that you will get a troll on your team is 4/9 (assuming you aren't a troll) which is below 50% (44.44% to be exact) meaning that as long as you aren't a troll your opponent is more than likely to get a troll. that troll can be an AFK, intentional feeder, or whatever other classification you want to give them. So i'm really not sure where this 70% came from at all unless you are pulling it out of no where.

I'm not going to argue that the system in place is perfect by any means because it isn't. I really think the promotion series is one of the bigger obstacles that needs to be tackled. It contradicts the way the system is set up overall. Thats the real problem not the LP system

Zakt0nFeb 17, 20151 votes

the 70% is roughly what i have experienced. Whatever the probability is you are going to see a bell curve, with the majority of players near the 50/50 mark on having an afk on their team each time the opposing team has an afk/troll. However some players are going to have more afks mess up their team. A few unlucky players are going to see trolls 9 times on their team for every 1 time on the other team. That is how chance/probability works. Now YES i agree for the majority of players the LP works when they are near the middle of the bell curve. BUT there are lots of players that have won many games creating a high MMR number, while having out of 10 games 7 times the afk is on my team 3 times on the other team. So even though we are winning a majority of games we are going nowhere while gaining fewer and fewer points for wins and needing to win 6 or 7 extra times(which pushes MMR up even higher) just to break even from the net loss due to afks of 4 games. So it becomes the unending black hole of having 8 wins and NEGATIVE LP, going nowhere. So if you are ok with a small % of the 27 million LOL players (hundreds of thousands of people) being screwed out of playing ranked by pure chance and not skill. And also ok that a small % of silver and gold players got there with 8 free afk wins out of every 10 afk games instead of by skill...then by all means keep this broken system instead of using a basic win/loss advance if you win more system. Much better to leave ranked play up to the whims of chance rather than skill and getting your team to win more times?

FHMarshyDec 30, 20141 votes

No, it is not for everyone. I just checked your match history.

Have you noticed that you, a silver player, had been playing among bronze players?

Your MMR is at Bronze 1, lower than where you are currently. That is why you are losing more points than gaining.

You are a silver player. Theoretically, you should win against bronze players without a problem. That is why you are gaining little LP and losing more LP if you lose. IF this streak continues and you drop to bronze, you will see that your gain and loss in LP will be balanced. That is how Riot is makiing their match making systems.

You are up against people who you should beat. You gain little if you win and lose more if you lose.

The system is NOT unfair.

Simple as that.

kelwardDec 30, 20141 votes

Did I say that it was for everyone? I don't think I did, I am simply trying to make ranked a good experience for everyone so that people who feel that they shouldn't be where they are ranked wise can move I am not saying this about myself specifically I am saying it so that the people who do lose games because of ragers and disconnectors and others, are not punished and maybe even demoted or losing their promos because other peoples bad behavior in the game. I am not talking moving people up ranks just because they think they should be, I'm talking about small amounts of LP that is not taken away from a game that had a disconnector or rager. Besides that I would just like to be able to not feel so much pressure going into a ranked game, the difference between ranked and normal to me is that in one I have to be serious and expect my teammates to do the same, but in normals I can have fun and not be stressed by losing or trolls. And yes ranked can be very fun but when you lose your promos to the next rank because of a troll you get very angry and maybe even start to go on a losing streak that could possibly get you demoted. This has been a occurring problem to me and I think that it can be fixed to make ranked more fun and less stressful

FHMarshyDec 30, 20141 votes

I said it's not for everyone to prove the point that the ranked match making is not "unfair" as you are claiming it to be.

I agree with the fact that you get trolls much to often in ranked games. You lose games where you won lane.

I am not defending people who afk/rage/troll.

All i was saying is that the match making system and the Ranked LP system is not unfair.

Zakt0nFeb 17, 20151 votes

is it fair for someone to have 8 more wins than losses and still be stuck in bronze5 with NEGATIVE 18 LP? While other people get lucky and have 9 afks on the enemy teams before having 1 or 2 on their team so they advance a few ranks.

the MMR creates a black hole for some of us that have had a horrible ratio of afks on our team, due to MMR we need to win twice to make up for each afk loss which increases MMR even more, so now need 20 wins to reach one series...with a 2/3s win ratio that means 60 games plus the 20 games to make up for the 10 afks along the way.... 90 games almost 100 hours for one chance at a series... this ranked system is a joke with the odds of probability counting just as much as skill. A simple win/loss to advance would keep everyone playing at the right level and not create the MMR nightmare for so many. If you can win 10 out of 15 games you should be advancing to a better rank.....i'm more than bored at this point of playing with trolls that really never plan to get out of bronze5 so 30% of ranked games are garbage.

FHMarshyFeb 17, 20151 votes

U can't have negative LP unless you dodge.

Zakt0nFeb 18, 20151 votes

well i was sure there to see it happen

anyways i guess nobody chooses to answer why a simple win more than lose advancement wouldn't work

anyways i lost 10 games to get my MMR down, and instead of 20 wins...i only had to get 5 and now i'm bronze4 so yeah great system, losing got me ranked up way faster than maintaining a winning record ever would have