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My own Karma rework

Snolly··9 votes·932 views

Karma Hello, fellow summoners! Karma

I've read MANY player-made threads about how Karma failed as a rework some years ago, and trust me, I share your pain. I've been a main Karma for years, and with time I've been able to do nothing but contemplate how every single thing I loved about her got stripped away. After checking some of your rework proposals and the feedback they have received, I've come to the conclusions that, even though they seem AMAZING, Riot will not show great interest in implementing them on her.

However, inspired by the passion that connects us and some of your awesome ideas, I've come up with my own rework proposition. It's more focused on leading team-fights and counter-attacking aggressive enemies than poking and spamming shields. And more importantly, it involves fans and shield bombs. I hope you like it and maybe by chance a red will find it and get some inspiration :)

So here it is: (Note: Numbers are subject to change)

Auto-attack: Range: 500 Karma sways one of her fans to send forth a small pulse of energy to her target.

Passive: Indomitable Spirit INNATE: Karma gains 1% Tenacity for every 2% HP she’s missing.

Q: Heavenly Wave / Soulflare Mana cost: 40/45/50/55/60 Cooldown: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 seconds Range: 600 Stops movement?: Yes, but only during the initial cast ACTIVE: Karma sends forth an energy wave from her fans, dealing 50/90/130/170/210 (+50% AP) magic damage to enemy units in a cone, and healing herself and her ally champions by 40/55/70/85/100 + 5% (+1,25% per 100 AP) of their missing HP.

MANTRA BONUS: Karma releases 3 Heavenly Waves over 6/5/4 seconds. Instead of cones, the waves take form of novas that affects all units around her in an 800 units radius.

**W: Focused Resolve / Spirit Bond ** Mana Cost: 70 Cooldown: 16/14.5/13/11.5/10 seconds Range: 675 Stops movement?: No ACTIVE: Karma revolves the air with a fan, forming an ethereal tether between herself and another champion for up to 5 seconds, and increasing her movement speed by 15/17.5/20/22.5/25% for the duration. If the distance between Karma and her target exceeds 800 units, the link breaks. In addition, the tether applies extra effects depending on the target, for the duration. ON ALLY CAST: Increases the target’s movement speed by 15/17.5/20/22.5/25%. ON ENEMY CAST: Grants true sight of the target, and slows it by 15/17.5/20/22.5/25%.

MANTRA BONUS: ON ALLY CAST: Whenever a side of the tether gets healed by an item, skill or summoner spell, the other side regenerates by 20/25/30% of the amount. This effect doesn't stack with itself. ON ENEMY CAST: Transfers 20/25/30% of the damage Karma and her Soul Shield receive to the target, even if the Soul Shield is casted on someone else.

E: Defiance / Reprisal Mana Cost: 60/65/70/75/80 Cooldown: 10 Range: 800 Stops movement?: No ACTIVE: Karma summons a Soul Shield on herself or an allied champion that absorbs 80/120/160/200/240 (+60% AP) damage for 4 seconds. If the shield gets broken, it bursts a surge of energy that deals 60/70/80/90/100% of the shield value as magic damage to all enemy units around her target, in a 600 units radius.

MANTRA BONUS: Increases the damage dealt by the surge by 40/80/120 (+40% AP). In addition, the surge slows all enemies hit by 30/40/50% for 3 seconds.

R: Mantra Mana Cost: Free Cooldown: 40/30/20 seconds Range: Self Stops movement?: No Note: Now Karma does NOT start with a rank in Mantra.

PASSIVE: Karma empowers every fifth basic ability cast, placing it on the same cooldown as its basic form upon cast. ACTIVE: Karma empowers her next basic ability within 8 seconds, placing it on the same cooldown as its basic form upon cast.

You can't empower a single ability twice in 10 seconds.

Some insights: This Karma’s kit focuses on balancing the battlefield by inspiring, healing and protecting your allies while demoralizing and punishing your enemies for their hostility. By removing her overwhelming poke and burst, I make some space for utility based on appropriate timing and targeting. Also, this Karma is designed to create opportunities to turn team-fights into one’s favour (“Guess what’s about to hit the fan”).

P: Her passive is made to compensate her short-mid range and low early sustain by creating windows of opportunities where Karma can turn things into her favour. Plus, it fills the Ionia fantasy of resisting adversity through a courageous, resolved leader, and reminds of the old passive idea of “the weaker I get, the stronger I become”.

Q: Heavenly Wave got inspired from the previous Karma and her famous fans. It deals a not too high amount of spammable damage while healing your allies by an amount that depends on how hurt they are. At early levels, it’s not a big heal, but has a strong lategame potential. It also gives Karma the chance to follow different build paths, and the spammable component helps build up stacks for R. RQ: This ability is designed to help your team resist and deal sustained damage. The long intervals between waves give the enemy bursty champions the chance to get their job done before you land all your heals and nukes.

W: A simpler, slightly more intuitive version of old W. The long duration and low buff/debuff allows Karma to constantly reposition herself during a fight and keep acting without becoming an Ahri. It also inspires allies to engage in combat and escape safely. RW: This is one of my Karma’s most complex, yet rewarding mechanics. It punishes your enemy for its hostility against you AND your shielded ally, or allows you AND your ally to share a strong burst of heal when in combo with RQ.

E: Shield bomb! Yes, shield bomb, but not as reliable as it used to be, because that’d be OP. Its reactive damage triggers when your enemies get too aggressive, so it’s good for demoralizing them or forcing a change of tactics like “let’s attack this unit instead of the shielded one”. RE: Mantra doesn’t strengthen the shield because that’d made the offensive component too unreliable, but makes it more punishing instead. In team-fights, you can use unfriendly fire in your favour to deal some pretty decent AoE damage and light crowd control.

R: Big old famous mantra, but with some little tweaks: You get two charges of Mantra, instead of one. One of them is a passive that forces you to choose your skill order carefully, and the other one is an active to keep it reliable and allow some sick combos. The other tweak is that you can’t use it before level 6 because that’d be OP.

Primary purpose of each R Combo: RQ+RW (ally) = Godly heals for you and 1 ally and decent heals for the rest of your team. RQ+RE = Great AoE potential damage RW (enemy)+RE = Good peels and enormous counter-damage potential

Recommended stats: AP: Main source of power. CDR: Your Q and R are designed to be used as much as possible. Shield/Heal boost: A Secondary source of power. HP: Your low mobility and short-mid range require you to get a little bulky. Plus, it strengthens your Q’s self-heal, therefore your RW’s shared heal.

Mantra lines: Mantra 1: Sae Eleisa Tera Vi- (Discover the meaning of-) Mantra 2: Irnae do Varia- (Open up and embrace-) Mantra 3: Koe Ionia Kaoda Vi- (Ionia shares its story of-) Mantra 4: Di Soura Irnae Go Vi- (Let light open the path of-) Mantra 5: Lo Souka Bui Roth Vi- (May heaven acknowledge the struggle of-)

Soulflare: Kya! (Hope!) Spirit Bond: Diora! (Harmony!) Reprisal: Jia! (Pain!)

As a conclusion, I'd like to say that this Karma is not intended to provoke teamfighs or abuse squishy targets like the current Karma does (among other things). Her old lore was about empowering herself and her people against adversity and I intend to project that through defensive AoE effects with agressive components that respond to enemies' actions. She's still vulnerable to assassins and bursty champs but with the right combos and good timing you'll almost always be able to turn the tables in your favor.

Hope you like it!

11 Comments

Pisces StarChild2 votes

I love your ideas, especially her Q and W. Lately I've been thinking of how it would be cool to have her tether interact with her other abilities by granting additional effects on the tethered target based on the next spell cast which is why I love the interaction between the shield and the tether that you proposed when used on an enemy. I still think she needs the snare at the end though to ensure safety/kill potential. I also agree with IcebornKing that I feel like the speed boost is more beneficial on her shield. That team engage/disengage is just too good to pass up.

I totally miss Heavenly Wave since it was pretty unique in its time (skillshot heal based on missing health) so I would love to see it back. I like her current Q though in terms of it slowing enemies hit so maybe the mantra-ed version could do that? Like the others before me I could totally see Karma dancing around in the battlefield with this proposed Q (if she gets to use her fans again). Karma definitely is missing the graceful/fluid movements she used to have prior to her rework. Finally, I love the passive. It just feels natural on her since she is a spiritual individual with unwavering spirit. If she's still close friends with Irelia this would also be a nod to both their lores in how they're both tenacious fighters, pushing through to the end no matter the cost.

Snolly1 votes

Thanks!

I'm seriously thinking of adding a brief ms buff to the Mantra'd Shield because of your feedback and IcebornKing's. I just need to meditate on how it would impact the basic tether's relevance and uniqueness inside the kit, and if the shield will remain balanced.

I will also evaluate the impact of a snare at the end of the tether, considering it has a 5-second duration now and its primary purpose is different to current Karma's.

IxtaliKing1 votes

I actually like this. The only thing I'd say is that I prefer her ms boost on her shield. If they ever gave Karma back her fans I could imagine a really cool animation for that Q.

Snolly1 votes

Thanks for the feedback!

I did consider keeping the ms boost on her shield. However, I figured that it'd make the ability too powerful, as it would do too much on its own. With a single R+E one could position itself, remain protected, deal damage and slow enemies altogether. I prefer to keep the ms boost as the tether's job :)

inplane1 votes

It would be cool if Mantra Q makes her dance around with her fans while releasing waves of energy over the 6/5/4 seconds. It would be nice if she gains a bit of extra movement speed during her dance, but is locked out of using her other basic spells or auto attacks in that time period. Just something to make Karma seem more elegant and beautiful rather than walking around with a stick up her ass.

Other than that, I really like this concept! It screams "Karma".

Snolly1 votes

Thanks! I appreciate the comment :)

I gave your suggestion a lot of thought, and I think she should be able to keep casting during her R+Q, especially if she wants to combo with her second Mantra. However, the idea of her dancing around with her fans sounds great to me. She totally deserves some graceful animations!

Yuyiyo1 votes

These are pretty great ideas.

I feel like the regular Q should have a heal aura similar to Rakan's radius but release the heal faster. I imagine her unleashing a cone of wind/energy, and then spinning her fans or something to draw back the energy as the heal., meaning they are only healed if they are right next to you, but the RQ would have a much larger heal radius as well as deal more damage of course, but I think it should still be a cone, maybe just larger or farther. I also think the larger RQ should maybe have a minor knockback, like syndra has.

I like the tether thing is kinda boring. Without mantra, its just a speed boost or slow? I really like the idea of choosing to redirect damage to the enemy or to bring greater heals to your allies, though. You would tether to your ADC when moving forward to use your Q, so that even though they aren't right next to you, they still get healed by some. And maybe it could be something like heals to karma are fully transferred but heals to the ally are only partially transferred to Karma. So I think that even without mantra it should either transfer healing to allies or damage to enemies, but with RW, then there is also a speed boost or slow applied. If the tether breaks by distance, they are briefly slowed by 80% for .25 seconds or something. And for the RW, maybe that can be were the hard CC is in her kit, where if the tether isn't broken after like 4 or 5 seconds, they are rooted for 2 seconds or something. Can be reactivated early after 2 seconds to immediately apply the CC but break the tether.

For skill expression in her kit, I think that if she cast's the shield on herself, then for the first .25 or whatever seconds while she is lifting her fans up for the animation (since I assume thats what the animation will be) of the shield, she will be physically using her fans to block incoming stuff, and gain invulnerability for that first .25 seconds or whatever.

Also, since her shield will explode if broken (which is good because it makes it different from Ivern), it should only last a very short time, 2 seconds at the most, to make it fair for people to wait out the shield rather than taking the damage. OR to make the shield decay over 3-4 seconds, so that it breaks no matter what (because it is decaying) but then of course the shield decays so that would be the downside.

And to maintain her unique multi-shield ability, maybe make the RE apply a huge shield on a target champion, and that once that shield breaks, it slows nearby enemies but also applies a regular sized shield to all nearby allies hit by the blast.

Finally, I don't think mantra needs that passive, I think her current passive where she lowers the cooldown of mantra based on skills landed is really good, it rewards good karmas that can stay at the edge of a fight and constantly land their spells and basic attacks.

I think this is really good, I like that you didn't wine about Karma like some posts but just gave good ideas.

PentaDenier1 votes

She is fun in ARAM how she is so I hope she stays the same as long as possible.

SilverSquid1 votes

Hey Snolly, thanks for summoning me :P Lemme have a look!

Overall, this seems like a more modern and fleshed out version of Old Karma. The problems I see with this is alienating fans of current Karma and importing some of her old problems. I will go throught them step by step though.

Passive: Indomitable Spirit INNATE: Karma gains 1% Tenacity for every 2% HP she’s missing.

Karma historically was shut down by properly timed CC, since her power has always grown on low hp. This introduced some tight mindgames and counterplay, that I deemed enjoyable. This passive is generally saying, fuck counterplay, just burst her... if you can. Depending on the rest of the kit, this can be allright, or toxic. Thematically, I like this, though. And I adore simple solutions with some depth.

Q: Heavenly Wave

I have no idea why you focus on whether this can be cast while walking so much. If your version of Karma is supposed to be dancing around in battle, giving this no cast time would probably be favourable. Also, it's not about whether champions "stop" while moving, it's about how long their cast time is. You are probably looking to give her ~0.25s of cast time. Additionally, I would recommend some travel time for those waves, to freshen this spell up and make it more fit for today's standards.

RQ: Soulflare

You probably need another name. Also, this is.... a bit underwhelming. I mean, I loved it, when Karma's Mantra was not an EMPOWERING ability, but a PURPOSE CHANGING one. Simply, because it made me think more. However, I like how you force Karma to stand IN THE MIDDLE of the fight, instead of just at the right angle outside of it. It fits a battlemage/support very well.

One other thing about healing others with %missinghp... Old Karma had a flat value for her heal in addition to the missing&hp... because it worked better with squishies. Only having %missinghp favours effective HP and thus tanks. Essentially, this ability would be rather useless on your carries and next to OP on your frontline. It's the same problem her current RW has. I suggest you change it to AT LEAST the old version (flat + percentage) or maybe better: A flat heal, scaling with the missing% of the target, making it more generally useful and less oppressive on tanks. Which Karma synergizes with anyways.

W: Focused Resolve

Well.... you know.... a 5s targeted slow is not nice to play against. With enough CDR you can keep a target near-permanently slowed. I recommend a slightly better buff and lower uptime. Even 3s of CC are a LOT, especially if it's not even a skillshot.

RW: Spirit Bond

Hehe. Way better than the old version. I honestly miss the "tag" damage of the tether, but I would love to see something like this in the game. I doubt, that the RW healing will be that useful though, as it can't quite compete with the tripple heal of RQ. RQ is just generally more powerful and I see no reason not to cast it TWICE instead of RW+RQ. Maybe include shielding as well? This also introduces a nice combo with E, so you can shield yourself and your target.

E: Defiance

I have had this idea and seen it quite a lot on the forums already. And I generally love the idea of forcing your enemy to make impossible decisions and threatening damage for attacking your allies. However, this is a bit pointless against ranged enemies. It takes away agency from Karma. It does things like push the wave unintentionally on support Karma. It doesn't have to be a bad thing, but I would give Karma the opportunity of inducing the explosion herself. Maybe by casting W on it, maybe it explodes faster on targets with low %hp. Who knows...

Also, another thing to consider; If you get ahead as Karma and have a lot of AP, your damage might drop, because your E has so much hp, that it won't pop anymore. You MAY use this intentionally, to make Karma unable to snowball, but please don't do it unintentionally.

RE: Reprisal

You see, it's a problem if you let the mantra'd ability scale with the base ability. Because then you can't really use it anymore, if you haven't leveled it and cut into Karma's decision making in midgame fights. Additionally, I do not like the straight up "empowering" some people think Mantra should do. Also, this would be an opportunity, to let RE explode instantly, giving Karma more control over her damage. At the cost of Mantra.

Note: Now Karma does NOT start with a rank in Mantra.

That's a ballsy move there, Tom, let's see if it pays off!

Quite frankly, this is a radical, yet simple solution to a butt-old problem, but then again, Karma fans usually don't take to kindly, if you take away unique stuff from her. You may be forgiven for bringing back the fans, but.... I dunno. Seems risky.

PASSIVE: Karma empowers every fifth basic ability cast, placing it on the same cooldown as its basic form upon cast.

Holy hell..... why? Those counters are a visual nightmare, make it hard for newbies to grasp and I would bet it's a cheesy way of forcing more skill onto pros. There is a reason those Nunu/Annie counters haven't been put on newer champions. There are so many better ways to make skillchecks and push power into a kit.

E: Shield bomb! Yes, shield bomb, but not as reliable as it used to be, because that’d be OP.

You gotta explain to me, why a reliable damage spell is OP? It depends on the damage, CD, range and what you give up for it. Old Karma had to give up selfshielding and mantra to poke a bit. 3.5 - 5.10 Karma gave up self healing, shielding, pushed the wave and dealt the same damage as with RW. 5.10 Karma is sad because she has no shield bomb :(

R: Big old famous mantra, but with some little tweaks: You get two charges of Mantra,

The reason why I used two charges in my reworks was, so that I could give her only ONE pre-6 to disallow mantra combos, but still keeping her unique. And more consistency later on, as well as mantra feeling more like a.... ressource than an ultimate.

Primary purpose of each R Combo:

As I hinted at during the review; you must consider that someone might want to mantra the same spell over and over again instead.

HP: Your low mobility and short-mid range require you to get a little bulky. Plus, it strengthens your Q’s self-heal, therefore your RW’s shared heal.

If you have selfheal AND shields, it's generally more useful to stack resistances. The problem your rework and current Karma have, is, that they stack with hp (%selfheal) AND resistances (shield), pushing Karma's build path into awkward routes.

SUMMING UP

Your abilities lack a bit of synergy and polish, but tend to be a more modern and arguably better version of her old kit. This won't replace newer Karma and will probably be rejected by most of her new fans, but it's a good rework, overall. Also a bit more formatting would probably make this more readable. Your writing skills and pacing are already good.

I hope I could give you some insight and help you improve. If you need me again, don't hesitate to hit me up!

Snolly1 votes

Hello, SilverSquid! Thanks for stepping in! You just gave some really nice feedback. I have a few responses to it:

This passive is generally saying, fuck counterplay, just burst her... if you can.

Old Karma's passive used to grow AP, which would strenghten her heals and shields and therefore improve her chances of survival. This Karma's shield doesn't grow massive, her heals have intervals and her tether only gives 25% ms, so I found appropriate for her to, while being susceptible to burst damage, get chances to respond. She's not a bursty champion, so that extra second will rarely be used to one-sec kill someone.

Also, it's not about whether champions "stop" while moving, it's about how long their cast time is. You are probably looking to give her ~0.25s of cast time. Additionally, I would recommend some travel time for those waves, to freshen this spell up and make it more fit for today's standards.

Good idea! writes it down

Also, this is.... a bit underwhelming.

I considered different versions of RQ, but I decided to make it simple to understand and execute. The number of combos and the decision making that RW imposes already give this Karma some level of difficulty, and I'm kinda happy with the strengths and weaknesses that this ability have.

One other thing about healing others with %missinghp... Old Karma had a flat value for her heal in addition to the missing&hp... because it worked better with squishies.

You're right. writes it down

Well.... you know.... a 5s targeted slow is not nice to play against.

This might be true, but given the number of ranged champs, cc abilities and dashes in the game a 15% slow early game and 25% late game would rarely be considered a kill secure or peel secure. It's intended to help Karma and her adc to reposition, to encourage safe tower dives and to have synergy with RQ's long duration.

I doubt, that the RW healing will be that useful though, as it can't quite compete with the triple heal of RQ.

RW is not a heal itself, but empowers all other heals you and your ally receive. It's better to use RQ+RW during a team-fight than double RQ, because of the time it takes for RQ to take full effect (team-fights don't tend to last more than a few seconds). However, I'm TOTALLY adding that you can't use the same empowered ability while the first one is active.

However, this is a bit pointless against ranged enemies. It takes away agency from Karma.

This shield's explosion has a radius of 600. It's the same as Ashe's basic attacks and larger than most adcs. It's not supposed to give Karma total agency on the damage, because that may encourage super aggressive solo strategies and that's not the point of this build. Old shield bomb had little counterplay as it was a big AoE nuke with 0 cast time.

If you get ahead as Karma and have a lot of AP, your damage might drop, because your E has so much hp, that it won't pop anymore. You MAY use this intentionally, to make Karma unable to snowball, but please don't do it unintentionally.

Totally intentional :)

You see, it's a problem if you let the mantra'd ability scale with the base ability. Because then you can't really use it anymore, if you haven't leveled it and cut into Karma's decision making in midgame fights.

Good point. It still has its use with the 30%-50% AoE slow, but I'll give this a second thought.

Additionally, I do not like the straight up "empowering" some people think Mantra should do. Also, this would be an opportunity, to let RE explode instantly, giving Karma more control over her damage. At the cost of Mantra.

I think this is a matter of tastes. The fact that this Karma doesn't have total control over her damage is totally deliberate. I explained why above.

That's a ballsy move there, Tom, let's see if it pays off!

I admit it's risky, but giving her an early rank in Mantra would cause several balance issues and the other way to solve them would be lowering her power spikes, which is not very satisfactory.

Those counters are a visual nightmare, make it hard for newbies to grasp and I would bet it's a cheesy way of forcing more skill onto pros.

You're probably right. I'll meditate on it.

You gotta explain to me, why a reliable damage spell is OP?

Explained above.

The reason why I used two charges in my reworks was, so that I could give her only ONE pre-6 to disallow mantra combos, but still keeping her unique.

This way I add some versatility. By choosing which 2 abilities to empower, you accomplish different combos.

As I hinted at during the review; you must consider that someone might want to mantra the same spell over and over again instead.

Solved :)

If you have selfheal AND shields, it's generally more useful to stack resistances. The problem your rework and current Karma have, is, that they stack with hp (%selfheal) AND resistances (shield), pushing Karma's build path into awkward routes.

Resistances are only useful if you cast the shield on yourself, and that's bad for the team. Old Karma also stacked with HP and resistances, so I think awkward routes could be considered core on her haha

This won't replace newer Karma and will probably be rejected by most of her new fans, but it's a good rework, overall.

Oh I'm totally sure it won't. I just created this kit because I miss the old Karma and felt inspired to propose my own version of her. Having said that, I'm aware that no idea is perfect until it's playtested, even the Rioters' ideas, so I'm just having fun with the process.

Thanks for the comments :)

SilverSquid1 votes

Old Karma's passive used to grow AP, which would strenghten her heals and shields and therefore improve her chances of survival.

Yeah, I remember very well. I liked it, personally. My point was, that CC has been Karma's weakness in all of her iterations up to this day. Changing this part of her identity might be an issue.

I considered different versions of RQ, but I decided to make it simple to understand and execute.

I appreciate it and try to go same routes. However, I think there are some complicated things regarding an ongoing tripple-cast. Mainly, when the ability goes on cooldown and what you are allowed to cast in between. Also the "scaling with base ability" issue.

For me it worked best when mantra added a utility/counterpart that I could let scale straight up with mantra levels. But just because I created one incredibly successful rework suggestion this way, doesn't mean you can't make one your way.

This might be true, but given the number of ranged champs, cc abilities and dashes in the game a 15% slow early game and 25% late game would rarely be considered a kill secure or peel secure.

Riot keeps rambling on about "windows of power", and I think it's a good point. I'd rather have a slightly faster&shorter way to zip around the battlefield, to dodge and approach, rather than having a nearly permanent speedbuff/slow, that might feel oppressive and uncounterable to my enemies.

It's all about how good those abilities feel, rather than how strong they actually are.

It's better to use RQ+RW during a team-fight than double RQ, because of the time it takes for RQ to take full effect (team-fights don't tend to last more than a few seconds).

I am not sure, to be honest. RQ heals your whole team, RW only gives you a 30% increase.... on average. If you are healing a tank, it's even worse, because the heal they get is RQ healing YOU and then RW transferring it, meaning you heal a tank for the %hp you are missing. Which might be none, if you haven't taken any damage yet.

Still, assuming you have equal hp on your whole team and equal missing hp, you must decide between healing all of your team for 6 times 5% %missing hp, or 3 times 5%, whereas your target gains 3 times 6.5% instead. If you are the midlaner and there is some other healer in your team, they would have to heal YOU for an amount equal to the health you are missing on the one target, that would heal him from 3x 6.5% to 6x 5% just to break even. But then you rely on allies, which is not good design.

You could argue it's still too drawn out, but the power levels just don't compare, since we didn't even factor in the possible damage RQ can deal on top of this and RW doesn't do anything on top of transferring heals.

It's not supposed to give Karma total agency on the damage, because that may encourage super aggressive solo strategies and that's not the point of this build. Old shield bomb had little counterplay as it was a big AoE nuke with 0 cast time.

The problem is, then you will have a champion, that feels a bit clunky and low impact, due to the drawn out heals and the indirect damage options. .... wait, super aggressive? The point was, that you could either shield yourself and deal damage, which you could only do if you were in AA range, or needed a minion/ally to deliver the damage, but then wouldn't get the shield for yourself, opening up another avenue for counterplay. It wasn't about how well to dodge this ability, how to react to it. It's a classical toplaner feature, that most abilites aren't there to be dodged, but to be timed and retaliated. Considering that a battlemage Karma would probably fit well into toplane, this would most likely work out well.

My point is, that counterplay isn't always on a pure mechanical level.

Totally intentional :)

That's.... surprising. From my personal experience I wouldn't expect people to like this.... but you might argue that a Karma that is ahead should get good at supporting, not at killing. Fair enough. I still find it risky.

I think this is a matter of tastes.

That's an important point, btw. I expect a lot of people to dislike it, but as Riot stated in their last video, it's okay if not many people like a champion, but the few that do like them even more in return. It's not just numbers. Personally, I prefer the direct impact abilities too, especially from a game design perspective.

I admit it's risky, but giving her an early rank in Mantra would cause several balance issues

Not more than she has right now. And I do prefer Riot's approach of highlighting champions' strengths and weaknesses, instead of removing them. As such, I would rather let Karma have the mantra pre 6, but nerf the mantra abilities.... like giving RQ only 2 waves, maybe even only 1. Just to keep her feel of strong early - weak lategame upright.

This way I add some versatility. By choosing which 2 abilities to empower, you accomplish different combos.

Yeah, combos are important. But it gets complicated quickly. Because, when designing those, you gotta consider not only, which mantra combos are there and must compete with each other, also depending on items, but also which basic abilities you could combine with them, that make sense and are satisfying.

Resistances are only useful if you cast the shield on yourself, and that's bad for the team.

Resistances increase your effective HP, even if you are not using shields. Besides, there is a midlane Karma, that HAS to use shields on herself in laning phase. I would even argue, that using shields on yourself is sometimes favourable as a support.

Old Karma also stacked with HP and resistances, so I think awkward routes could be considered core on her haha

It's actually one of the traditional features to Karma, that I would like to change; giving her clearer buildingpaths. One of the reasons why I propagate removing her HP scaling on current RW.

Oh I'm totally sure it won't. (...) I'm just having fun with the process.

Glad to have you then :) My goal is to explore options for Riot to choose from, when her time comes, while also enlightening people on the problems Karma currently has. Any motivated soul is very welcome to work for a better future for Karma! Even if it's only showing to Riot, that the love for Old Karma isn't dying, it's already good, because it makes it more likely they will consider them when working on her.

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