% Hp Runes. Outdated and useless on all champions

GramboDS·Oct 24, 2016·80 votes·4,380 views

Hello,it was years ago that the scaling health per level seal was buffed and I believe that the percent max health seal requires a similar buff. The seal currently grants .5% max health. If you were to build straight HP items (which is foolish) you may reach around 5000 hp by max level. with these seals you would receive 25 hp per seal which is about the same as the scaling HP rune but in the case of the scaling HP runes you are not forced to build all 6 items as hp items. This simply does not make sense. The runes are weak and outdated. Please consider .75% max health at the very least or perhaps a scaling percent max health rune of . 06% max HP per level. These would still be very weak but for certain niche characters they may work.

I look forward to further buffs and nerfs to runes in order to offset the stagnant meta, especially in the top lane.

Thank you for your consideration.

43 Comments

KyrrionOct 24, 201639 votes

It's funny because they were outdated the day they were released.

Emerald FangOct 24, 201619 votes

the whole RUNE system is outdated IMO. We need some unique system. Combining runes and masteries would be a good idea.

Ariel the CruelOct 25, 20168 votes

Combining runes

Fun trivia: Was once a thing.

Emerald FangOct 25, 20161 votes

Not what I meant exactly; I meant combine the runes system and masteries system into one. But combining runes would actually be useful so IDK why it was removed.

AckelopeOct 25, 20161 votes

I'm assuming you mean we basically delete runes, and load a bunch of that power into masteries? That would limit a lot of potential power people have with masteries, though there tend to be very homogenized rune pages with each role/champion. It could definitely be done.

Ariel the CruelOct 25, 20162 votes

But combining runes would actually be useful so IDK why it was removed.

Because it wasn't useful. Combine 3 runes, get a random one back. Even combining T1 runes, it wasn't cost efficient. Which says something for a system that is defined by being expensive.

Meep ManOct 24, 201612 votes

This would be a buff towards DrMundo Sion Nunu Volibear Zac Chogath I accept this

GramboDSOct 24, 201610 votes

Chogath Singed Sejuani Vladimir the list goes on and so i know it may not be the best idea but if it is not to be used then just remove the runes and refund the IP, they are absolutely useless at the moment. If they are not meant to be used then remove them, if they are meant to be used then please make them useful.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 24, 20161 votes

umm. how shitty would their early clears be with them? i dont think any reasonable buff would actually make them get it.

Meep ManOct 24, 20161 votes

What are they sacrificing by taking % Health Seals that they didn't already have? Armor? Well, that's being changed next Season with Smite healing and overall Jungle sustain going up.

GramboDSOct 24, 20161 votes

also you can run hp seals on a few jungs with 2 armour quints and be fine. sej for example

DecritOct 24, 20166 votes

Counterpoint:

the whole rune system as whole is outdated

GramboDSOct 24, 20167 votes

That's not really a counterpoint, if anything that supports my post. This would be a place to start.

Emerald FangOct 24, 20161 votes

It's true though.

DecritOct 24, 20163 votes

No, it' s a counterpoint that hp% runes needs to be changed >:(

... jokes aside yeah, that' s what i meant. I suppose that Riot with runes will go big or go home, and it' s already a while they have been talking about that.

ChaoticPineconeOct 25, 20166 votes

Ive done the math on this previously:

Basically I found that from around levels 1-3. it goes Flat Health > % Max > Scaling Health. From around 3-6 it goes % Max > Flat > Scaling. From after 6 it goes Scaling > % > Flat (until you get like 5,000 health, then it goes % > Scaling > Flat).

Despite whatever assumptions you make, % max is NOT a lategame option. Its a strictly midgame/safe option. Not as good early as Flat, but more scaling. Not as good as Scaling late, but gives more early.

DeathBurstOct 25, 20161 votes

Thanks ;)

SH AzykanOct 25, 20161 votes

this is actually nice to know, and on the rare occa Sion ( item 3742 item 3065 item 3068 item 3083 item 3748 item 1001 builds) it still definitely works late game too

Duke AnaxOct 24, 20165 votes

They aren't that bad what most people don't realize that they start better than scaling runes and end better than flat runes. They are a middle way to both.

OdinakosOct 25, 20163 votes

Had the discussion on another thread. And here are maths behind the %hp runes.

For Quints you need 1733 hp to break even with flat hp. You need 3240 hp to break even with Hp/lvl @lvl 18. For seals the breakpoints go to 1600 and 4800. Seeing that Warmogs breakpoint is at 3000 health, around that should be a healthy target for breakpoint.

Quints seem fine atm. Pretty close to Mogs breakpoint. They directly compete with hp/lvl. Champions who love to build hp and know that they gonna reach the breakpoint are fine with them. Other than Quints are reserved for other stats. But if you really want to become the beefiest, %hp quints are the best.

Seals have the problem that hp/lvl are just that good. 4800 breakpoint is too deam high and even health stacking monsters dont find them usefull as they are gonna be lagging behind a great percentage of the game. %hp must be scaled to bring the breakpoint around Quints level (3200 if they are at 0.75% instead of 0.6%). That way if you wanna build heavy hp (eg Mundo) you opt for %hp and the breakpoint is something you gonna achive around midgame. If you want some more muscle but you dont think you gonna make it past 1-1.5 hp items you opt for hp/lvl.

GigaPubeOct 25, 20161 votes

ctrl+f "quints" and this is the only post that comes up with something ACTUALLY important. league community smh

just to add my own point that might not have been said, despite this post being the only one this thread needs. %hp quints are 3 times the value of %hp seals, while scaling health quints are only 2 times the value of scaling health seals. if 3>2 isnt convincing enough, %hp scales even further with other %hp runes, meaning while flat health simply adds up and sticks the value onto your max health, %hp runes become increasingly more valuable JUST with other %hp runes, let alone the ample health items you'll buy in game

OP has compared 1 %hp seal to 1 scaling health seal, which obviously favours the scaling healths superior flat health (albeit that its maximum value is only present at level 18) i would say the reason the %hp seals are so low is because they can be abused so easily, as if %hp quints werent efficient enough, and so to be fair, despite nobody using them except me, %hp seals are fine the way they are

DeathBurstOct 25, 20161 votes

Wow, I didn't realize %HP Quints were so good. Sadly, as you mentioned it already, there are too many good stats you want to put on your Quints. I'm personally a fan of MS Quints.

GramboDSDec 8, 20161 votes

I suppose I should appreciate you reiterating and dumbing down what i had already stated. Thanks, it seems people have enjoyed the breakdown. Next time I will be sure to include the math for all the people who do not have the fortitude to put in 45 seconds and do it themselves.

Anywho, I completely agree. People talk about how everything is outdated or some other excuse but that is garbage, we are providing obvious supporting evidence to a legitimate problem. One which is a fairly simple fix for the game producers. I would ask people not to congest the validity of an obvious problem which has a simple solution with there additional irrelevant qualms. make your own thread for that pls and thx.

Lastly I have not seen all the posted despite trying to read through this thread, have any of you spotted any riot workers posting or acknowledging this?

GigaPubeOct 25, 20163 votes

i love how the most upvoted comments are the ones saying that the rune system is outdated

w.....WHAT?!?!? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT %HP RUNES FFS..... nobody needs that circlejerking edgy crap here, save your butthurt, stick-it-to-riot-yet-again mentality for the posts complaining about the assassin reworks when you've all played em and been demoted back to bronze and blame riot for their bad changes

for those who care about %hp runes, read Odinakos's comment

KoKobotoOct 25, 20162 votes

I always use percent health seals and quintessence when playing Sion Volibear Sejuani Not sure how effective they are but I enjoy them

Ariel the CruelOct 25, 20162 votes

180 minute Sion Likes them already. XD

nm1010Oct 24, 20161 votes

They stack with cinderhulk so any buff to them is indirectly buffing cinderhulk, which is why they won't be buffed.

GramboDSOct 24, 20161 votes

I am aware of this and that is why i suggested they be removed if they are a failure as they so clearly have been.

HazyCloud7Oct 24, 20161 votes

Reasonable suggestion. They should outscale scaling hp seals.

SeenanOct 24, 20161 votes

Imo, there's no point to letting runes cost anything. Just hinders lower levels with low/moderate play times from level 30s with much higher play times even more.

T2s costing 1 IP was a good step, but you'll have to buy T3s eventually to optimally use a champion. So all should cost nothing, imo.

EpicanianOct 25, 20161 votes

They are working on reworking the rune system right now, so I doubt they will make any more changes until then

The DeckownerOct 25, 20161 votes

Wait, I never knew this rune existed lol

Need Gold 4 TentOct 25, 20161 votes

and muh crit damage runes too :(

statelesskillerOct 25, 20161 votes

i have gotten 6000 hp with volibear actually. cinderhulk opop which turns out at 31 per %health seal . . . but still thats isnt much better

CarmellaFromNYOct 25, 20161 votes

We could buff all defensive seals and glyphs so that attack speed runes aren't most gold value efficient in all slots.

Death and DoomOct 25, 20161 votes

their are A LOT of outdated runes... look at the energy regen ones. while this may be one rune that needs to be fixed, we have bigger things to worry about. energy regen ones are much worse then these rn.