What Exactly justifies Yasuo's double crit ?

Rezzet·Oct 7, 2016·5 votes·1,228 views

simple question

i consider him a greatly gamebreaking and toxic champ because due to his passive

10% damage loss clearly < 100% crit chance

37 Comments

Spicy RiceOct 7, 20165 votes

You do realize that no champions passive is justified, right?

RalanrOct 7, 20166 votes

Isn't that the point of a power budget?

Spicy RiceOct 7, 20161 votes

And all of yasuo's power (damage) is frontloaded on his passive.

RalanrOct 7, 20161 votes

Which is where the double crit is. I don't understand your point.

Spicy RiceOct 7, 20161 votes

Maybe it's my misunderstanding. Was your first reply to me argumentative? If not, i apologize, as that's how i took it to be

RalanrOct 7, 20161 votes

I guess I was just trying to say that a power budget is what justifies abilities and passives.

Though I'm already lost in this debate and would rather not continue.

Thank you for being courteous.

Vistha KaiOct 7, 20165 votes

It's a different way to balance a champion.

Ask yourself a question: Would you prefer him to have double the AD scalings instead of being crit-dependent?

Because that'd make him much more overbearing in general.

It does give him a different power curve, but not necessarily a "toxic" one. In a way it actually makes him weaker early, because his first big power spike is his first crit item, instead of the average level 6 of nearly every other champion.

PS. http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/962/910/aa6.png

RezzetOct 7, 20162 votes

this argument makes no sense , because to begin with the items that do give AD also give Crit , the point is he is not giving up anything to balance out his bonus if his crits did 50% damage then sure it might be a bit reasonable plus judging by your logic shouldnt all other ADCs also have a double crit chance or double AD passives? i mean they are all squishy and most of them unlike him have low mobility and some cant even lock down targets .

RalanrOct 7, 20162 votes

The only AD items that also give crit are ER and IE. the rest are attack speed and crit items.

If I remember right.

RezzetOct 7, 20161 votes

even then the fact is all he needs is two crit items to max out his crit , he basically starts snowballing as soon he builds statik shiv

crit items for the most part give both attack speed and movement speed as well as some other passive as well

RalanrOct 7, 20161 votes

Ok? So? He's a hypercarry.

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Ok? So? He's a hypercarry.

He's not, to be honest.

He is strong late game, but it's not to the extent that a Twitch is, or a Vayne is, or pre-nerf Azir.

There aren't really any melee hypercarries. Yi was when his devourer on-hit bruiser build was a thing, but these days no, not really.

RalanrOct 7, 20161 votes

Fair enough. I'll admit that it's not my area of expertise.

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

this argument makes no sense , because to begin with the items that do give AD also give Crit , the point is he is not giving up anything to balance out his bonus if his crits did 50% damage then sure it might be a bit reasonable plus judging by your logic shouldnt all other ADCs also have a double crit chance or double AD passives? i mean they are all squishy and most of them unlike him have low mobility and some cant even lock down targets .

ADCs have their own steroids.

Vayne gets percent health true damage on every third auto attack and 70 bonus AD from her ult. Jhin gets unusual crit and attack speed scaling that gives him incredibly high AD (so he basically does have a double AD passive actually), as well as a guaranteed crit every fourth auto attack. Caitlyn gets headshot, Draven gets pinning axes and an attack speed steroid, etc.

All of those champions are also ranged, and as such naturally put themselves less at risk than Yasuo does. Yasuo actually dies more than any champ in the game on average as a mid laner, and isn't far behind as a top laner.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.deaths&order=descend&roleSort=

Vistha KaiOct 7, 20162 votes

Isn't far behind as a top laner.

Actually he has the highest average number of deaths at top lane too.

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KGdWBMqs,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2016-10-07T18:15:13.660+0000)

Actually he has the highest average number of deaths at top lane too.

He has the highest as a top laner, but I was just saying that top lane Yas does have champs in other positions who die more often on average than him, compared to mid lane Yas who dies more than everyone. The difference is either due to top lane Yas building somewhat tankier, or due to top lane being more of an island where he won't be in fights as often.

Vistha KaiOct 7, 20162 votes

You say my argument makes no sense and the very first thing you include in your response is confabulating.

because to begin with the items that do give AD also give Crit

As mentioned by Ralanr. Only two items have provide both AD and Crit and only one of them is of any use for Yasuo.

the point is he is not giving up anything to balance out his bonus if his crits did 50% damage

Funny way you mentioned it, because his Q actually DOES deal only 50% bonus crit damage. A quarter of your damage isn't enough of a drawback?

judging by your logic shouldnt all other ADCs also have a double crit chance or double AD passives?

Judging by common sense ADCs have a lot of different damage boosts, more often than not, better than Yasuo's.

Ranging from true damage, to attack speed boosts, to other interactions which directly impact the damage output or its reliability.

i mean they are all squishy and most of them unlike him have low mobility and some cant even lock down targets

And then you realize he literally gets gunned down before being able to close the distance. Even so every single ADC has either mobility, CC or both.

Don't make it sound like they are getting the short end of a stick, because it simply isn't true.

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20164 votes

{quoted}

simple question

i consider him a greatly gamebreaking and toxic champ because due to his passive

10% damage loss clearly < 100% crit chance

So like, what is the logic here?

That his passive should have a drawback within itself to cancel it out?

Does Shyvana's extra armour and magic resistance have something to cancel itself out?

Does Malphite's shield?

Does Darius' Hemorrhage?

No. Most don't. Yasuo's actually comes with a built-in drawback, and is one of the few that do (though he does have two of them I guess).

RezzetOct 7, 20161 votes

this was a pretty stupid comparison

Shyvana's passive does have drawbacks and is not active what 80%-90 of the game? because it only activates when her Ult is used then theres the fact it is a fixed low amount , what is 20 armor gonna do against 100% crit and an infinity edge? , what is 40 magic resist gonna do against a caster with Liandry's torment

Malphite's shield only gives him a 10% extra health and has a Cooldown

darius's passive only benefits from a 30% of his AD so for it to start dishing out tons of damage he has to at least have had build some serious AD points first

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

this was a pretty stupid comparison

No, you're just not smart enough to understand it.

Shyvana's passive does have drawbacks and is not active what 80%-90 of the game? because it only activates when her Ult is used then theres the fact it is a fixed low amount , what is 20 armor gonna do against 100% crit and an infinity edge? , what is 40 magic resist gonna do against a caster with Liandry's torment

All right, first of all, it is not only active during her ult. Its effects are just halved when she's at base.

And you don't seem to understand what her passive is meant to do. It smooths out her early game by giving her some in-built resistances so she can build some damage first (bloodrazor and then, if she is doing well, Titanic Hydra).

Late game no, 40 resistances isn't particularly impressive. But she also has a lot of built-in damage. Far more than Yasuo. Which enables her to build durability and still be a damage threat. Yasuo by comparison has to build far more damage.

Their power budgets are spread out differently. Do you know what a power budget is?

Malphite's shield only gives him a 10% extra health and has a Cooldown

10% of like 4,000+ health is like adding another health item onto your health pool lol.

Know what doesn't have a cooldown or a drawback though? His passive bonus armour.

darius's passive only benefits from a 30% of his AD so for it to start dishing out tons of damage he has to at least have had build some serious AD points first

Darius' passive gives him 40 AD at level 1 (which is HUGE, by the way) if he stacks it, and late game gives him 200 bonus AD.

He has more built-in AD than any champion but potentially Mundo and Nasus (the latter of which is going to change soon).

SasogwaOct 7, 20163 votes

It's his steroid as a melee carry

RalanrOct 7, 20162 votes

Well he still has to build crit items. And he's incredibly squishy (course the durability builds don't help give that feeling).

Vistha KaiOct 7, 20162 votes

Even with durability builds he's squishy.

Sill the problem with durability builds in this seasons are unhinged item changes in general, not just Yasuo for that matter.

RalanrOct 7, 20161 votes

True, it's just that he's surprisingly less squishy and that can turn around fights.

I'm not arguing he's busted. I agree that items and masteries are making a big mess of things.

Vistha KaiOct 7, 20162 votes

I'm not arguing he's busted.

I'd argue about him being busted, because - for me - he simply never was.

I mean, he feels so goddamn weak, I can't force myself to pick him at all in any situation. And I played him for two seasons after his release.

18 NAKED COWB0YSOct 7, 20162 votes

what justifies trundle diving me at level 6 with a item 3751 and taking no damage whatsoever?

nothing. its how the game works.

RezzetOct 7, 20161 votes

does not mean it is the way it should or that it is a healthy way it should operate though , i think yasuo is the only champ that i used where i said i dont know what im doing , while destroying enemy teams by myself repeatedly

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20164 votes

{quoted}

does not mean it is the way it should or that it is a healthy way it should operate though , i think yasuo is the only champ that i used where i said i dont know what im doing , while destroying enemy teams by myself repeatedly

"Dude I rekt noobs first-timing Yasuo in normals he's so broken lawl".

My first time using the reworked Yorick in a normal I stomped lane and went something like 16/2 and was unkillable while still clapping fools, and got an S+.

No one gives a shit about you beating shitters in normals with a champion first time.

Anyway, he gets double crit chance because, like all ADCs (particularly melee ones), he needs a strong offensive steroid.

RezzetOct 7, 20161 votes

he gets doublt crit just because

yep pretty solid argument right there lol

PermabannedGarenOct 7, 20163 votes

{quoted}

he gets doublt crit just because

yep pretty solid argument right there lol

Yeah you're not very smart at all.

So here's the deal, Yasuo as a champion does the vast majority of his damage throughout the game with his auto attacks and his Q (which is a slightly stronger auto attack with more range and potentially a knockup, and late game his Q actually does less damage than his auto attacks).

He has two steroids that increase the effectiveness of his autos and his Q. The first is his double crit chance, which enables him to get 100% crit chance more easily than any champion in the game. The second is the bonus armour penetration on his ultimate on attacks that crit, which means he doesn't have to buy percent pen to deal with tanks. This means that a Yasuo build that gets 100% crit chance can itemize for more raw damage than someone else who would want to get 100% crit, and can itemize for some small defensive measures without cutting his offensive potential against tanks down. Compare to Tryndamere, who has no pen in his kit and as such needs to spend gold on a penetration item. Yasuo is compensated for these advantages with very low base stats for a melee carry. The lowest in the game, even lower than Riven's.

Yasuo, with no steroid, would do extremely low damage. Without double crit chance and his bonus armour penetration he would be a Tryndamere with more utility, much less damage, much less crit chance, and much less durability. He would have to itemize full damage to fall short of what Tryndamere (or any ADC) can do, and if he builds tank he is still less tanky than an actual tank and deals frankly less damage than they would as well.

Why do you not balk at other carries getting steroids? Do you think Vayne's true damage and bonus AD is bullshit? What about Draven's attack speed steroid and his spinning axes? What about Caitlyn's head shot?

RalanrOct 7, 20161 votes

I don't know what I'm doing on Yasuo and thus I do terrible. Maybe your playstyle meshes well with Yasuo?

420 gramsOct 7, 20162 votes

For balance reasons

Stars ShaperOct 7, 20162 votes

it's 25% on his Q

And he doesn't have any other steroid, plus outside early game his E doesn't deal damage either and is the only "melee carry" that has conditions on his gap closer and probably the only1 who has a condition on his ultimate too.

Big LincolnOct 7, 20162 votes

it forces him to build crit and gives him a very exponential power spike to reward him for it; it's to encourage him going glass cannon with maybe 1 or 2 defensive items

you should be more concerned when he's not building it, in all honesty