Deathcap needs a buff

VulcanWest·Aug 27, 2017·92 votes·4,844 views

Rabadon't Deathcap could be either some 200 gold cheaper or get a better build path (even 2 Needless Large Rods would be an improvement).

134 Comments

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20176 votes

Nerf Morello and Lost Chapter then to compensate for any buffs to AP itemization.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201740 votes

Yeah nerf the only really good item of the whole AP itemization lol

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20176 votes

It's not "really good" it's completely broken. It's the reason why mages aren't as shit as these boards say. You wanna buff every bad mage item? Fine, I'd like that, but you have to the nerf the excessively broken one.

My HeartshakerAug 27, 201713 votes

You're asking for most of the mages mid to just die if lost chapter/morello's gets nerfed, it's just such a core item on them -- think infinity edge to ADCs.

Back in the day, this problem existed between Athene's and Morellos and Athenes would get prioritized every single time so they changed it in favor of Morellos so that it would be the main core/mana item on most mages.

Dr PoroAug 27, 20176 votes

I don't think it's very healthy when there's this one item that is super core for an entire class. Especially when that item also hard-counters certain champions with their grievious wounds, an effect that you should be opting into, not getting on your first core item. Also not a fan of IE's dominance, but at least there are lethality builds and essence reaver viable as first item.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 20178 votes

I'm not a fan of being forced to build Nomicon either. Do you think that it's fun to build the exact same item every game?

But, you know, it's the only AP item worth building first right now. Before you could choose between Morellonomicon and Grail, now you have like 0 choice for items with mana except for RoA/revolver items/tear, and all of them are super niche/need too much to stack in this early game meta.

As for grievous wounds... I think that Nomicon is the only fair items with GW loaded into it. Being able to perma GW someone for 800 gold isn't very healthy or interactive.

FirewaterDMAug 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I'm not a fan of being forced to build Nomicon either. Do you think that it's fun to build the exact same item every game?

But, you know, it's the only AP item worth building first right now. Before you could choose between Morellonomicon and Grail, now you have like 0 choice for items with mana except for RoA/revolver items/tear, and all of them are super niche/need too much to stack in this early game meta.

As for grievous wounds... I think that Nomicon is the only fair items with GW loaded into it. Being able to perma GW someone for 800 gold isn't very healthy or interactive.

I kinda disagree- like I feel that GW is the sole useless portion of morello. Yes GW is important but being honest unless you are already ahead of the vlad/swain/HP regen tank you never will see it work.

I'd almost rather an AP item that was the same as executioners and this passive removed from Morellos

DivewingAug 27, 20174 votes

This is the real issue.

Morellos IS busted.

But the rest of the AP items (potentially SOLELY barring Void Staff) are a complete shit show that any nerf to morellos runs the risk or butchering the majority of the AP mid champion pool

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201715 votes

Why is it "completely broken"? Because it gives AP everything they need in a single item? Come on, every class has an item that gives them every stat they need.

IE, BC and stuff like that, for example.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20175 votes

Because it gives an overloaded amount of stats? Because maybe giving it 20 more AP for no downside plus a better build path during the mage update was a bad idea?

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201717 votes

Yea, but for 20 AP we lost like 100 AP from other items. Fair enough.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20172 votes

Also incorrect. You lost 50 AP in total, and gained 3 new items (and then a 4th during the tank update) and also gained 20% CDR (30% total during tank update).

CatastropAug 27, 20178 votes

Let's ignore 15% from Blue buff.

Also 3 new items mean nothing when they're only built by like 4-5 of the entire roster.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

LET'S IGNORE THAT BLUE BUFF WAS INCREASED BY 30 SECONDS AND RED BUFF LOST THE DAMAGE OCCURING ONHIT!

I KNOW HOW TO ARGUE: IGNORE ANYTHING ELSE RELATING TO WHAT I SAID AND ONLY LOOK IN A TUNNEL.

DivewingAug 27, 20178 votes

My bad, I forgot red buff gave AD when blue buff gave AP

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

What the hell is the point in bringing up red buff, they are completely different.

We are talking about flat numbers of AP. In no way shape or form did red buff give anything comparable, so spouting off "hurr durr red buff lost it's on hit" is completely irrelevant

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

Because both red and blue buff were both nerfed equally in power?

Red buff gave it's burn damage as onhit damage. That's huge. Are we playing the same game? Do you know how valueable that extra damage was for splitpushing and dueling?

DivewingAug 27, 20175 votes

Look buddy, that is COMPLETELY SEPARATE DISCUSSION.

You want to talk about Red Buff, TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD.

This thread is about THE AMOUNT OF AP THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED SINCE MID SEASON.

Red buff losing it's little on hit damage HAS NO RELEVANCE HERE.

(or in simple terms, you're right, but it has nothing to do with what anyone's talking about)

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

Then you're ignoring context, which means you have no argument.

Looking at something with the "why" is why these boards are increasingly incompetent. Here's a better argument: Why does Blue Buff no longer give +2 AP per level? I'd like to know too.

DivewingAug 27, 20176 votes

What context?

YOU'RE IGNORING THE CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE POST.

We are talking SPECIFICALLY AND ONLY (I can't stress this enough) about THE AMOUNT OF AP IN THE GAME.

Then you come along pulling all this "but fucking red buff" out of nowhere. IT HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THE DISCUSSION.

You want to talk about red buff, MAKE A POST FOR IT!

commit an heroAug 27, 20171 votes

[deleted]

CatastropAug 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Blue Buff doesn't give AP anymore IIRC

That was my point.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201723 votes

We lost 50AP from Zhonya's alone, so it's way more than 50.

Also blue buff. Also banshee = old abyssal in terms of stats (more or less). Also we lost abyssal passive.

Meanwhile, AD gained even more items to counter/delay burst.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20172 votes

WHAT? DID YOU EVEN READ THE FUCKING PATCH NOTES OF THE MAGE UPDATE?

I'LL LITERALLY QUOTE IT, RIGHT NOW:

100 AP -> 70 AP.

ROD OF THE AGES:

MAX 120 AP -> MAX 100 AP.

BLUE BUFF WAS NERFED AT THE SAME TIME AS RED BUFF: No longer does the DoT damage onhit, only reapplies the effect.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201717 votes

Do you realize that you're quoting something that says that I'm right? Lol

UnvictusAug 27, 201716 votes

He's typing in all caps. There's no reasoning with that kind of person lol.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

[deleted]

DivewingAug 27, 20175 votes

Arguing against literally everyone else and no one agrees with him

Accuses others of living in an alternate reality

seems legit

Velzard of KozAug 28, 20171 votes

I have no idea how you could say Tank Update gave us 4th item when we got just item-swap at most. You spew just as much bullshit.

DivewingAug 28, 20171 votes

I didnt say that....?

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20172 votes

We lost 50AP from Zhonya's alone, so it's way more than 50.

100 AP -> 70 AP.

100 - 70 = 30, not 50.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201713 votes

Ahem, Zhonyas was 120 AP.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20172 votes

Wrong. Zhonyas was lowered to 100 AP during Season 5 around July-August.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V5.13

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201714 votes

Uhm... aren't we talking about the overall lost of AP? Wasn't referring to a said patch, and neither you did since you were talking about new items/reworked item.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

No, we were clearly talking about the mage update.

This was clearly mentioned multiple times.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 20178 votes

Lol, you were even talking about Banshee's, and it wasn't changed during the MYMU. Anyway I don't really care, it's a matter of fact that AP has lost a lot of stuff whereas AD has gained even more stuff to make AP champs' life harder.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

Except when mentioning Banshee's Veil, I clearly mentioned it was AFTER the mage update.

You lost 50 AP in total, and gained 3 new items (and then a 4th during the tank update) and also gained 20% CDR (30% total during tank update).

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 201711 votes

But still, does it change the fact that AP has lost a lot and AD has instead got buffs non stop? No.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

AD itemization isn't relevant to this argument. This is about how Morello is broken and should be nerfed if every other AP item is allowed to be buffed.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 20179 votes

Honestly I think that it shouldn't be about nerfs or buffs. AP itemization needs a rework badly, that's what I'm trying to say.

Squidward DabAug 27, 20176 votes

The lost ap on zhonyas really bothers me cuz 70 AP is pathetic for a legendary item. No one wants that 10% cdr tacked on. Also ignore this aggressive troll air king neo he literally sounds like a 2 year old who doesn't know how shitty ap items are for mages. AND FOR THE LAST TIME NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BUILD THE FUCKING ROD OF AGES

EkyonKunAug 28, 20171 votes

I forget the exact number, but I recall doing the math of how much AP was both added and removed from the game since the MYMU. If I recall correctly, the net loss was 165-175 AP, 15% bonus from blue buff, and technically the 10% damage amp from Abyssal Scepter.

This is factoring in the fact that item 3030 and item 3152 were added, and again, only factors in AP numbers from the MYMU.It gets worse if we go back to the times of Deathfire Grasp.

4th3t0sAug 27, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Why is it "completely broken"? Because it gives AP everything they need in a single item? Come on, every class has an item that gives them every stat they need.

IE, BC and stuff like that, for example.

This is the problem, since item 3031 in the past was similar to item 3089 for both AD and AP champs in that it maximized their powerspike, only has been left in the past, outdated, and outpaced by recent itemization.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

Oh wait you're a mage main. That explains your endless bias and inability to realize maybe an item shouldn't have the greatest build path, large AP, and large CDR.

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 20172 votes

No, I'm not a mage main. I'm a LB main.

And you know what? LB doesn't always build Nomicon. Sometimes I just skip it to get Zhonyas/Banshees since I have CDR on runes and I need defensive stuff more than 30 AP.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=ZIMAGINAERUM

Most played champions: Leblanc Zyra Ahri Syndra Jhin Caitlyn Orianna

No, I'm not a mage main

All those champions also build Morello, except for Jhin and Caitlyn (and Zyra while in the support role).

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 20173 votes

I play mages when LB isn't available/vs impossible matchups like Kassadin, does that mean that I'm a mage main? Lol.

Maybe I am, but that doesn't change the fact that AP itemization is garbage and needs some serious work before Nomicon gets even touched.

AirKingNeoAug 27, 20171 votes

If AP itemization was buffed without Morello being nerfed than AP champions would be incredibly overpowered. Why are you arguing that AP champions should be allowed to be overpowered?

Fisher No ChainsAug 27, 20174 votes

Why would they exactly be op? What would make them op? The fact that they don't go OOM as fast as they used to?