[IDEAS] Barrier has become obsolete, changes are needed

Lethadind·Jul 31, 2014·9 votes·1,562 views

Hey friends! (particularly you of the RED persuasion :) )

So with heal providing more health (after about level 5 or so) than barrier provides for shields, barrier has become almost useless when compared to the now added bonus of heal giving temporary move speed. Sure barrier counters ignite better than heal, but even then the differences are negligible.

EDIT: I've been made aware that the changes to heal actually nerfed it below barrier at all levels. PVP.net hasn't updated the tooltip yet which is why I was misinformed. Regardless this post still stands firm in its conviction that Barrier needs changes!

Keeping in tandem with the idea of a "barrier" I've come up with a few ideas (and grabbed a few from around the interwebs), note that I'm not saying that barrier should do ALL of these things, just one or two of them:

After the barrier effect ends (either times out or is broken), it gives you +12 to 20 armor/mr for 5 seconds.
If the barrier is penetrated it explodes, dealing xx-xxx magic damage in a small area around the champion. (Like a reverse Sion shield I suppose, which would be interesting to see Sion taking barrier haha).
Temporarily provides 15% tenacity while the barrier holds, and one second after. (tenacity should stack additively imo, but w/e)
Barrier provides an aura around it that slows enemy champion movement speed by 12-20% while it holds.

I see barrier's intended use as a summoner spell for tanks and mages, and maybe the odd ADC, and it should cater to those types of positions. Essentially barrier needs to be a threat, while heal needs to be an "oh f---." Too many people are taking heal for the move speed nowadays. There are a lot of changes happening to the game shifting priorities, adding clarity, and all of those goals, and I think barrier has potential to fill those goals, but isn't being taken advantage of. Adding strategy to barrier besides "oh I'm taking damage let me press my "D" button (because everyone puts flash on "F" duh)" will add a lot more variety and competition to the game.

I envision maybe Volibear flashing ulting into the enemy team, flipping their mage (maybe) into your team, and then tossing on barrier as an added damage bonus, or to add to his tankiness. Or I can see Fizz dropping in on the enemy team, popping up barrier and eating enemy cc then playful/trickster'ing away. Making use of a summoner spell as a strategy rather than a passive "oh f---" button. You started doing that with the move speed increase on Heal...now Barrier needs some lovin. ;)

Just look at what all the League of Legends champions are saying about this potential Barrier change!!:

--- : This good idea. Mundo will go where he pleases. Mundo think barrier needs change.

: I think if barrier gets fixed people will be my friend...yeah probably not. Will you be my friend Riot?

: New barrier changes? Now I KNOW that'll make your pulse rise! ...or stop. (teeheehee)

: A new barrier will most definitely taste purple. OH A SQUIRREL! Hell Mr. Squi...wait it's just a Riot employee ignoring barrier again. Sticks out tongue.

: Ok.

: Tradition keeps Barrier wasted! Ignorance. Is. Fatal.

: I've got a joke for you. What's round like the moon and currently useless? Barrier! Get it? Heal's much stronger, so no one uses barrier. Hahahahahahahaha.

: Why has Riot not changed Barrier? I will punish their imprudence!! ---

So yeah Riot. Even the League champions agree, Barrier needs to be changed!! Good luck, can't wait to see all the awesome changes you guys are coming out with! Love you guys. Keep up the great work, been playing this game forever and will continue to do so! :)

18 Comments

Donovan Du BoisJul 31, 20143 votes

Bump for good idea and funny quotes.

xWildflowerJul 31, 20143 votes

they nerfed heal so barrier always shields for more than heal will heal but I see your point IMO barrier should scale with health

LethadindJul 31, 20143 votes

Ha you're right. Hey Riot!! UPDATE YOUR PVP.NET TOOLTIPS! lol

They still say 95-475. Both in the "spells" tab, and in the tab when you're choosing your spells in queue. Lulz.

Pika310Jul 31, 20142 votes

Please read updates beforehand, summoner 7 got destroyed this patch and summoner 3 reacquired its enhanced version. Bot lane will probably go back to the old Barrier+Exhaust standard of last season.

LethadindJul 31, 20141 votes

Yeah I was aware that Heal had changed, however the actual reason I posted this thread was because the tooltips in PVP.net hadn't changed. I did not know this, and assumed that heal still healed for more than barrier shielded. I was toying around with the idea to post this for awhile, and that was the catalyst, sort of a "Whoa they nerfed Heal and it's STILL healing more than barrier? Srsly?" thing. Even with the nerf on heal though, barrier is missing out on some potential to make the game deeper.

How does the change on exhaust translate to "no change needed to barrier" though? If anything it means there is MORE reason to change barrier because now it has to compete with heal AND exhaust.

Pika310Jul 31, 20141 votes

Mentioning exhaust was more of a "btw, this also happened" sort of thing. These are 2 spells which affect bot lane more often than others, so it seems worth mentioning. Besides, now that there's no Heal for the support to counter with Ignite, it seems more likely they'll carry the Old/New Exhaust.

LethadindJul 31, 20141 votes

My point, I guess, is that I'm saying don't limit barrier to bot lane. Frankly it'd be cool if it was seen as a viable top lane option in place of ignite or teleport. Or mid lane. Or even bot lane. Give it some love so that people actually use it. Change it up in line with how other changes have gone through.

The reason I mention barrier over things like revive or cleanse is that it only requires very minor tweaks to be extremely viable. Cleanse could do this as well, I suppose, but would require a lot more thought.

Pika310Jul 31, 20142 votes

Mid lane is actually the 2nd lane it's seen most often in. Usually by squishy mages like Luxanna, Ziggs or Vel'koz. Sometimes just against unfavorable lane opponents as well.

LethadindJul 31, 20141 votes

I don't even know what point you're, like, trying to argue. (I'm just glad you aren't raging, lol). If by "most often" you mean it's seen every 1 in 30 games in mid lane, and 1 in 25 games on bot lane, then sure. But heal and ignite dominate the lanes. Even before the exhaust changes supports were switching to exhaust over ignite and letting the ADC take heal in lane. I'm not saying it's never used (and in fact I DO use it when I play Vel'Koz against lanes/teams that have a lot of long range, where I won't be able to get in close for the ignite), what I'm saying is that it's fallen behind in usefulness compared to other summoners, and there is massive potential for an overhaul on it.

What point are you trying to make? Serious question, I honestly don't know what you're trying to argue. Or if you're even arguing, lol.

Pika310Jul 31, 20141 votes

Not trying to argue anything, just correcting a few misnomers. As for Barrier in bot lane, ever since yesterday I'm seeing it in almost 100% of the games I play now.

CronaBlackBludJul 31, 20142 votes

Nice quotes! lol but yeah its definitely lacking something...

HikkupzJul 31, 20142 votes

I dont even bring Barrier in game anymore, Cleanse all the time

FrinallJul 31, 20141 votes

I do like the idea of barrier providing some form of CC resistance. I like the idea of added tenacity, though I think maybe it should just be for the full length of Barrier, whether the damage taken eats through the shield or not. Alternatively, I was thinking it might be cool to add some counterplay options to the game by converting barrier to a Banshee's Veil effect. This would mean that if you want to gain some defense against AA type champs, you would take heal, and if you want defense against an AP burst mage type, you would take barrier. That would clearly delineate the role of the two summoner spells. As a compromise you could even say that Barrier acts as it currently does (with values adjusted for balance), but if you pop barrier immediately prior to impact it acts as a Banshee's Veil instead. So if you time it with that incoming Ashe ult, you can completely shrug it off, but if you are just using it to counter a poison or ignite, it provides the same effect as before. That might be OP, or too confusing, but I think it could be represented in game by the barrier flashing into existence and then dimming back to the current in-game art.

LethadindJul 31, 20141 votes

Thanks for your comment. This was exactly why I posted this idea, to get the community discussing it so red's can come in and take it seriously, and take it to the dev team.

I like that idea too, I feel like it needs to be fleshed out a bit more but something along those lines could work. Also you could "combine" cleanse and barrier (since basically no one takes cleanse anymore) and nerf actual numbers (either time active or amount shielded or whatever), to clean up and CLARIFY summoner spells.

Another idea (just brainstorming) is to tack on the "revive" spell to another spell in a way where if you die while it's on cooldown (once per cooldown) then you immediately revive (or can choose to immediately revive, I guess, I dunno, just spitballing ideas). Get rid of the revive spell that no one uses (at least not on SR, I don't play dominion or 3s). I could see that being applied to "ghost" (hence the name "ghost") to make it a viable substitute to flash. Maybe it just halves the revive time or something, but still.

Riot let's clean up these summoner spells! :)

Pika310Aug 1, 20141 votes

Cleanse is actually gaining more popularity lately, what with CC becoming so prevalent in games. I especially see and use it on ADCs with no real escape mechanics like Jinx. Idk if it's a glitch or not, but for some reason it doesn't work against suppresses, even though Sash and Mercurial do.

As a side note, Revive was removed from Dominion a while ago and replaced with a trinket that carries Revive charges.

SkiasJul 31, 20141 votes

They need to just remove barrier. Its essentially just effective health, same as heal. They are redundant. If anything barrier could function like a very short nocturne shield that converts a spell into mana.

It takes away from some champ's uniqueness though.

I think barrier doesnt offer anything and just needs to go.

Pika310Aug 1, 20141 votes

Or not. Pointwise, Barrier gives more HP than Heal due to the nerf to Heal this week. If anything, I think Heal needs a better niche now, perhaps let it remove grievous wounds again.

SkiasAug 6, 20141 votes

From a gameplay perspective, barrier offers nothing unique. Its just another shield. Remove it and make room for a new summoner spell that does something more interesting. Removing grievous wounds was foolish, it was literally the only, and very trashy counter to certain brick wall champions.