Does Yasuo have a real weakness?

Monlyth·Mar 16, 2019·34 votes·14,409 views

Yasuo's Strengths: -Good early game -Great scaling into late game -Easy snowballing -High Mobility -Strong CC -Good AoE and single-target damage -High utility and survivability with Windwall -Can build tank items in the late game without sacrificing much damage -Can poke targets from range and finish them off with gap-closers or ult -Can't build against him due to armor penetration from ult

Weaknesses: -Takes skill -Can't practice with him in Draft because he's consistently banned -EDIT: Below-average poke compared to other mid-laners; has to either get aggressive or stay back in several matchups.

Did I miss anything?

105 Comments

SirsirMar 16, 201915 votes

Baits himself into situation he 'could have won if he played better'

And his teamfight is awk as hell.

MonlythMar 16, 201914 votes

Well, sure, but that's still a skill-related weakness.

As for teamfighting, I've seen a fed Yasuo win 1v4 teamfights. Tornado, ult, Q, Quadra Kill.

SaiannaMar 17, 20197 votes

Even, and that is theoretical, but even if yasuo would suck in teamfight, his somewhat well placed windwall suddenly makes huge advantage for his team. This ability is ultimate-tier. I have no fucking clue how in the hell Riot decided it's ok to have t as basic ability.

3TWarriorMar 17, 20193 votes

it's actually even stronger than ultimates considering it can stop almost ANYTHING that is ranged by stopping all "projectiles"

Ahri BakaMar 16, 201915 votes

His early game sucks actually for a lot of match ups Once he is behind , he needs to die 10 times to get IE and PD to be online Tho his early is kinda of very strong against some picks

He has to play aggro in lane to show how cancer he is , once he does that , he has to be pushing which makes him easy to gank but , that's for early , once he gets his two items , I can agree with you about the rest

LatetotheRaceMar 17, 20194 votes

Once he gets his 2 first items though his "behind" state ends almost immediately though, so I honestly disagree with his design overall.

There should probably be some feast/famine put into his kit to prevent him from reaching that late game monster if he loses hard enough early game. Just my opinion on that one.

EedatMar 16, 201912 votes

No you're right dude he has absolutely zero weaknesses which explains his 100% win rate

SillaeMar 17, 20194 votes

{quoted}

No you're right dude he has absolutely zero weaknesses which explains his 100% win rate

his weakness is his playerbase is full of 12 year olds who dont know how to press buttons

the rest are faker's alts

there is no between

Dasdi96Mar 16, 20197 votes

The person playing him

KVbqbFsC8eMar 16, 20196 votes

Most people who play him are terrible.

PhieldworkerMar 16, 20195 votes

You wait for the player to get cocky.

Jk. Usually I take Swain into him or Darius because of their easier to hit cc. Swain I can usually out trade him and kite him back since he can only dash to me once then I can usually get him low for the ult burst.

Edit: also fighting him outside of minions.

AnomanderMar 16, 20194 votes

LAZERS!!!!!!!!!!! Velkoz Lux He can't stop LAZERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

disclaimer No they are not counterpicks.

ModWulf HelhammerMar 17, 20192 votes

Xerath is if you are good with him.

Velkoz maybe a bit, just not as strong as Xerath

KarunamonMar 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K4PumziR,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2019-03-17T00:17:42.150+0000)

is if you are good with him.

Will yas block the damage from Xerath ult if he stands in the middle of the wall? (Not snarking, honestly curious)

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K4PumziR,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-03-17T01:24:40.736+0000)

I wonder how many of these threads have been made since season 3

Enough that you think someone would pay attention...

ModWulf HelhammerMar 17, 20193 votes

To my knowledge, it will not.

Enough that you think someone would pay attention...

Yes. You'd think the playerbase would get by now that Yasuo isn't actually broken and doesn't need changes.

KarunamonMar 17, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K4PumziR,comment-id=0009000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-17T02:44:44.813+0000)

Yes. You'd think the playerbase would get by now that Yasuo isn't actually broken and doesn't need changes.

If I've said it before I've said it a million times: "Broken" isn't the problem. Annoying kit is.

One champ can't be played in more than half of games worldwide. Across all nations and tens of millions of players.

But no, he's fine and shouldn't be changed for any reason. Ferfucksakes.

IllabetheMar 17, 20191 votes

Karma Is a counterpick.

3TWarriorMar 17, 20192 votes

depends, he likes to engage on champions and karma tends to rely on people trying to get away from her W so they don't eat a double Q

he can probably play fairly passively to just farm as well. his passive and over 400 Q range let him farm fairly well. He also has the earliest late game power spike at only around 6000 gold

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20192 votes

"Late game at 6000g" is incredibly false.

He becomes relevant at 6000g. IE+Shiv is when he can win a 1v1 without the opponent massively fucking up.

Relevant and late game are NOT the same thing.

3TWarriorMar 17, 20191 votes

so 300 damage per auto attack(actually more because of infinity edge) and if he wants it, aoe damage that can deal another few hundred and the freedom to build however he pleases from there...doesn't sound like late game?

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20191 votes

Where are you getting 300 damage per auto at 2 items from?

Also, no, he doesn't really have freedom to build as he pleases from that point. He still doesn't get to teamfight until he gets a sustain item.

3TWarriorMar 18, 20192 votes

here's yasuo's AD at level 9: 81.6

81.6 + item 3031 (80) = 161.6

yasuo's passive reduces his crit multiplyer to 1.8 , infinity edge apparently stacks additively instead of multiplied, at least if the wiki's information is correct, 1.8 + 0.225(infinity edge on yasuo) = 2.025

161.6 * 2.025 = 326.025 before any runes or other effects increase his AD further...

if yasuo were facing himself, he would deal 100/152.9 X 326.025 = 213.2

for his Q, you get 1.825 crit multiplyer and add up to 120 damage (which you would have by 9), this comes to 281.6 * 1.825 = 513.92 * 100/152.9 = 336.115 or 336 before any other runes and effects

let's say he's facing Lissandra since she's the most defensive mage

at level 9, she has 45.2 armor before any additional effects or items such as the components of zhonyas

100/145.2 * auto attack = 224.53 or roughly 225 same * Q = 353.9

with these factors alone, yasuo's kill time is roughly 2.9 seconds or less upon reaching his target

factoring in runes and static shiv, that number drops quickly...

then you get into stuff like building rod of ages or rylais, different matchups, etc.

all while being free to build more offense, bruiser, or even tank

item 3812 is a good choice with 80 AD and 30% reduction of burst damage, but he's free to build pretty much whatever he wants because his core items have already been finished with only 6000 gold

DuskDaUmbreonMar 18, 20191 votes

Please tell me we're not going back to the bullshit statement of DD reducing damage. It's a fucking delay, not a reduction.

3TWarriorMar 18, 20192 votes

burst damage, not total damage

reducing the "immediate" damage you take to 70% and then you take the 30% as a 10% bleed for 3 seconds

this can easily save the character from what would have been a fatal attack though

DuskDaUmbreonMar 17, 20193 votes

He also loses to furries Nasus .

...Legit, I can't think of an easier lane for Nasus. Yasuo's W is useless, and he doesn't have the mobility to get away from Nasus. Also, the fact that Yasuo has to push to do anything is really favorable for Nasus as well.

Plus, then there's the fact that your E negates his passive before any engage, your W invalidates him, your R is a better damage increase than his R, and Nasus comes online before Yasuo. Just don't int into him early on (I'm pretty sure Yas still beats you level 1 and maybe level 2, and you don't want to fight him before 5 or 6 anyways) and it's a free game since your simple existence makes Yasuo unable to do anything but be a shitty support with W and R.

MordepoolMar 17, 20194 votes

Yasou's weakness- The Hubris of the people who play him.

joywhodidthisjoyMar 18, 20194 votes

{quoted} Weaknesses: -Takes skill

I feel like I'm the only person who thinks he doesn't take skill My first time playing him in draft I did perfectly fine 2nd time I hard carried

I'd replace that with high-skill-cap

Garen is adoptedMar 17, 20193 votes

high mobility

actually he's pretty immobile, if you fight him in the middle of a minion wave it's your problem

MonlythMar 17, 20195 votes

Is that a joke? Dashing 5+ times during a 5v5 (In addition to teleporting with his ult) is not immobile.

Garen is adoptedMar 17, 20193 votes

it is, his mobility is conditioned, not like zed, leblanc, rek'sai, riven, etc. for example which can use their dashes when they please.

Crescent DuskMar 17, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Garen is adopted,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K4PumziR,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2019-03-17T03:03:30.397+0000)

it is, his mobility is conditioned, not like zed, leblanc, rek'sai, riven, etc. for example which can use their dashes when they please.

In any part of laning phase minions are present pretty much 95% of the time, so conditional my ass.

AckelopeMar 17, 20194 votes

I'd still consider it conditional, as it's based entirely around where minions are at the time. A player who knows this can use the minion positioning to their advantage to guarantee it to be difficult for Yas to get to them. He's definitely very mobile under the right circumstances, but it's in a way that allows a player who thinks about how they should be positioning themselves to take advantage of it, in many situations.

TengenToppaGnarMar 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo's Strengths: -Good early game -Great scaling into late game -Easy snowballing -High Mobility -Strong CC -Good AoE and single-target damage -High utility and survivability with Windwall -Can build tank items in the late game without sacrificing much damage -Can poke targets from range and finish them off with gap-closers or ult -Can't build against him due to armor penetration from ult

Weaknesses: -Takes skill -Can't practice with him in Draft because he's consistently banned -EDIT: Below-average poke compared to other mid-laners; has to either get aggressive or stay back in several matchups.

Did I miss anything?

You missed a strength. A Passive that grants a free Damage Shield that nulls out any burst, making it a bit trickier to poke. Shield doesn't break either until he actually takes some sort of damage from an enemy champ :/

Seijurou AkashiMar 17, 20191 votes

Yeah a passive that grands free damage ? Do I miss something because his passive is not giving him any damage, in fact it is taking damage away, It is really annoying when people start talking bullshitss about his passive that it gives him free shield and double crit chance while no one mentions that his crit damage is reduced and the shield is not that free and it goes away by simple auto attack...

TengenToppaGnarMar 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Seijurou Akashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K4PumziR,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2019-03-17T15:06:30.356+0000)

Yeah a passive that grands free damage ? Do I miss something because his passive is not giving him any damage, in fact it is taking damage away, It is really annoying when people start talking bullshitss about his passive that it gives him free shield and double crit chance while no one mentions that his crit damage is reduced and the shield is not that free and it goes away by simple auto attack...

Uhh... are you illiterate? Maybe you should read my post more carefully.

Hemulen MagiMar 17, 20193 votes

He enters the game with a couple reasonable weaknesses, then usually outscales most of those weaknesses. One issue with mobile champions like Yasuo is that they get to choose when interaction happens, so he gets the final say on whether a fight happens or not even if you could potentially counter him. On the other hand, if he counters you, then you probably have no reasonable options at all because his mobility gets to say the fight is happening unless you stay safe by afking in your base. So Yasuo gets to make more of the decisions on how a game proceeds, and then if he made good decisions, he will eventually snowball until he has no remaining weaknesses.

The outcome is decided unevenly by the choices Yasuo makes compared to players on most other champions. That is frustrating, and his 60-70% ban rate (+ matchmaking dodge rate) is justified.

Big Bombo BlastMar 17, 20193 votes

As a former Yasuo one trick, I can tell you that his weakness is that most Yasuo players are too busy showing their M7 to actually play the game. You can take advantage of this and kill him 7 times over. Most Yasuo actually get over 8 deaths on average per game.

Yasuo will normally shove lane constantly. Due to the nature of Yasuo players, camping him is usually a 100% free flash or kill. It will tilt him off the face of the earth. Bonus points if he is showing his M7 emote during all of this.

MankeyMadnessMar 16, 20192 votes

Melee junglers and excessively binary. Hes a melee jinx in that he can eventually go on endless killing sprees once he gets items or starts a snowball but if he's missing either, you get item 3082 or land chain CC he cant do anything and repeatedly dies or never gets to go in. I ban yasuo only so my own team doesn't pick him, otherwise i have no problems with it.

He's not Kayle or Ziggs or Vayne that become infuriating regardless of your options and he often destroys himself as much as the other team.

MonlythMar 16, 20196 votes

I don't see how item 3082 counters Yasuo; unless you catch him without his ult, it strikes me as a waste of money. As for chain CC, name one champion that isn't countered by chain CC. Yasuo even has a potential answer to your CC; Windwall.

I also don't see how Kayle or Ziggs would become infuriating regardless of your options. If you bully Kayle in lane and snowball, she never gets a chance to hit her powerspikes. Ziggs never stops being squishy and can only hope that Zhonya's and his W will be enough to get away if someone dives on him. I do agree on Vayne though.

KFCeytronMar 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I don't see how counters Yasuo; unless you catch him without his ult, it strikes me as a waste of money. As for chain CC, name one champion that isn't countered by chain CC. even has a potential answer to your CC; Windwall.

I also don't see how Kayle or Ziggs would become infuriating regardless of your options. If you bully Kayle in lane and snowball, she never gets a chance to hit her powerspikes. Ziggs never stops being squishy and can only hope that Zhonya's and his W will be enough to get away if someone dives on him. I do agree on Vayne though.

name one champion that isn't countered by chain CC.

Any champion that builds defensively (health, armor, MR, Tenacity) and/or front-loads their effectiveness (e.g. popping their CDs and then kinda waiting) rather than being balanced around constant activity. Malphite, Garen, Braum, Mundo, Leona, Nasus, Naut...

Crescent DuskMar 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Any champion that builds defensively (health, armor, MR, Tenacity) and/or front-loads their effectiveness (e.g. popping their CDs and then kinda waiting) rather than being balanced around constant activity. Malphite, Garen, Braum, Mundo, Leona, Nasus, Naut...

lol, Garen is completely shut down by CC and heavily the reason he doesn't see the light of day in higher elo (Riste is even struggling to make it to challenger this season, and he's the best Garen NA).

His W is hot garbage because it has little duration, and defensive items don't scale anywhere as well as penetration items so you still eat a Thresh Hook/Sejuani ult/Morgana bind/whatever their top laner threw at you and then your Q goes on cooldown without hitting any target worth a damn and the Q does no damage whatsoever against any target with armor since unlike Darius, Camille, Fiora, or even Irelia Garen has an atrocious time against dealing with high armor targets so he can't break through a frontline to pressure the backline.

Garen also has a horrendous early lane which is why Riste has been forced to take him mid instead of top to middling results after his Q nerf, because Garen is virtually the analogue of Wukong. He loses against most meta top laners and lacks the sustain to stay relevant in lane without the help of jungle ganks.

KFCeytronMar 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K4PumziR,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-17T05:50:32.889+0000)

lol, Garen is completely shut down by CC and heavily the reason he doesn't see the light of day in higher elo (Riste is even struggling to make it to challenger this season, and he's the best Garen NA).

His W is hot garbage because it has little duration, and defensive items don't scale anywhere as well as penetration items so you still eat a Thresh Hook/Sejuani ult/Morgana bind/whatever their top laner threw at you and then your Q goes on cooldown without hitting any target worth a damn and the Q does no damage whatsoever against any target with armor since unlike Darius, Camille, Fiora, or even Irelia Garen has an atrocious time against dealing with high armor targets so he can't break through a frontline to pressure the backline.

Garen also has a horrendous early lane which is why Riste has been forced to take him mid instead of top to middling results after his Q nerf, because Garen is virtually the analogue of Wukong. He loses against most meta top laners and lacks the sustain to stay relevant in lane without the help of jungle ganks.

You realize that a champion who's actually weak to CC would be dead after getting hit by just one CC and then bursted, not to mention chain-CCed, right? Rather than merely having to wait a few seconds for a CD that didn't cost any mana anyway. And if the CC is a slow, Garen can use Q to break out of it.

W doesn't last long, but it can still help mitigate some of the burst that usually follows being CCed (and reduce the duration of that CC).

Crescent DuskMar 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You realize that a champion who's actually weak to CC would be dead after getting hit by just one CC and then bursted, not to mention chain-CCed, right? Rather than merely having to wait a few seconds for a CD that didn't cost any mana anyway. And if the CC is a slow, Garen can use Q to break out of it.

W doesn't last long, but it can still help mitigate some of the burst that usually follows being CCed (and reduce the duration of that CC).

Garen doesn't have shields or any self healing midfight, which means even with ppping W before getting CC'd, damage is so over the top for ADC's currently and plenty of top laners with true damage means you barely last at all in a teamfight if you happen to get peeled.

Which is why Garen is being taken mid for greatest success with its one tricks and a competent frontliner is being chosen top.

LatetotheRaceMar 17, 20193 votes

If AS slows effected his Q's cooldown retroactively then I could see that working. But it doesn't so it really doesn't do jack.

MankeyMadnessMar 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If AS slows effected his Q's cooldown retroactively then I could see that working. But it doesn't so it really doesn't do jack.

... I never considered they don't. Would definitely be a good balancing lever. I just like Randuins dampening and Frozen Hearts slowing his dash speed or delaying damage between Q casts even if it doesn't delay the Q itself.

Doesn't Yasuo E have a longer cast time while under slows?

LatetotheRaceMar 19, 20191 votes

Here's something even funnier. AS slows don't actually calculate as fully effect against jhin, not only do they NOT reduce his attack speed, they only reduce his AD by 1/3-1/5 of how much it should. Hilariously disgustingly weak and lazy math on riots part.

Essentially AS slows only effect the champion if they're not new.

Biscuit BiteMar 17, 20192 votes

You mistyped there on the weaknesses. Here, I'll fix it for you: He takes kills.

5StackUltOneShotMar 17, 20192 votes

I think its his E needs a target and his windwall has a large cooldown. Other than that idk. I think some Yasuo mains say play around his shield, 'poke it with an aa'. But yah idk.

For example, Darius has his inner Q that can be abused, he has low mobility and relies on getting 5 stacks to deal any noticeable damage.

Whereas Yasuo is just play around cooldowns.

Fondling GemsMar 17, 20191 votes

His ability to fight in river/jungle is pretty hampered due to a lack of targets to dash to, generally he can only dash to 1 or 2 people at a time, and can't use dashes to get back out.

GigglesOMar 17, 20193 votes

Until he just walks faster than you and auto attacks you to death because he has better damage... 345 ms is not needed. thats basically level 1 boots over a fuckton of champions.