[fervor] I know you probably heard this but please listen

Kata Couteau·Nov 5, 2017·31 votes·1,694 views

I have said this on a pbe message.

I say fervor needs to be added back so that bruisers and adcs can do dmg in teamfights.

Is press the attack good? yes

Did fervor have issues? No

Do I want fervor? I need it

kled is a champ I have taken in consideration a lot, sure you have more burst with press the attack but after I kill the target I will be left useless in team fights casue without buying a triforce I have no form of using that mastery again.

MELEE bruisers that lose more than they gain in team fights and in a potential 1v1 (there are way more such as certian adc)

The runes reforged says choose your play style. well my play style is to have sustained damage in fights with bruisers and with ex. camille what is she gonna take a mastery to increase the damage of a true damage q that cant even be increased or decreased.

Please take this in consideration I dont want burst I want to be able to switch targets with ease. (and also singed has no mastery apart from predetor/storm raiders)

31 Comments

QuephaNov 5, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=bloodmoon jcs,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K3HEp7QM,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-05T13:48:09.409+0000)

Is press the attack good? yes

I disagree. It seems pretty lazily designed, provides an enormous amount of power that isn't very visible, is pretty generically powerful in all situations, and its functionality too closely overlaps that of Lethal Tempo (which is a much better design)

Currently it's completely eclipsing Lethal Tempo in terms of usefulness to make Lethal Tempo into nothing but a noob trap, and the way these keystones work I doubt balance will ever get to a point where one of these isn't strictly better than the other in 99% of situations.

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20171 votes

Lethal tempo seems like it would be good on on hit champs like kog and kayle though?

They scale hard with attackspeed to say the least, and some others like Gnar would also benefit a lot.

QuephaNov 5, 20171 votes

I've tested in the practice tool, those champions deal about the same dps with either keystone, although Press the Attack will pull ahead afterwards while Lethal Tempo goes on a long cooldown.

That's before remembering that Press the Attack also buffs the rest of your team's dps.

Right now, Lethal Tempo is a noob trap.

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20171 votes

Oh, i guess the restrictions are too harsh on it then x)

Yah then it's indeed a trap, might have been intended to restrict marksmen somehow but with PtA available everyone will just natualyl pick PtA over LT anyway then it won't matter x)

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20173 votes

Many of those champs would do quite well with the new keystones though?

Press the Attack - Hitting an enemy champion 3 consecutive times makes them vunerable, dealing bonus damage and causing them to take more damage from all sources for 6s.
Lethal Tempo - 1.5s after damaging a champion gain a large amount of attack speed. Lethal Tempo allows you to temporarily exceed the attack speed limit.
Fleet Footwork - Attacking and moving builds Energy stacks. At 100 stacks, your next attack heals you and grants increased MS.

All of these seem like possibly good options.

Dark harvest for some if looking for a more assassin-ish style.

Dark Harvest - Champions, large minions, and large monsters drop soul essence on death. Touch souls to absorb them and deal bonus adaptive damage on your next attack based on total soul essence collected.
Grasp of the Undying - Every 4s your next attack on a champion deals bonus magic damage, heals you, and permanently increases your health.
Aftershock - After immobilizing an enemy champion gain defenses and later deal a burst of adaptive damage around you.

All these look like they could work on at least 2 champions each among those you listed.

If you are indeed looking for sustained damage then the first 2 in particular ought to work quite well?

And how do these guys stand to lose more than the marksmen if fervor goes away? The marksmen can keep a near 100% uptime due to usually avoiding getting CC'ed or kiting thus leading to a lot more damage from fervor, not to mention a lot higher attackspeed.....which obviously results in more attacks and more benefit from fervor.

There is no champ in this game that uses fervor better than a high ATS/crit marksman.

Kata CouteauNov 5, 20172 votes

true but fervor was my favourite mastery for all the utility it gave sure dark harvest is bice but most bruisers arnt gonna get a dark harvest reset

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20171 votes

Cannon minions also reset dark harvest^^

But what do you mean utility? It just gave you flat AD, which translates into more damage on auto attacks and AD scaling abilities.

The first two do roughly the same thing? A 3 hit passive that reduces resistances and increases subsequent damage as well as a attackspeed increase on the condition for fighting for 1,5 seconds.

Both translates into more damage in a extended fight.

Kinda the same as Fervor in my eyes, just less powerful for crit users since less AD means smaller crits, more attackspeed on the other hand means being able to proc on hit effects more often or triggering stuff like 3 hit passives quicker.

Only guys to really suffer from this are the big crits club.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Only guys to really suffer from this are the big crits club.

Not really, they get a % increase in their crits from the damage amp anyway

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20171 votes

If a marksman tried to only build IE and the rest attackspeed/onhit their actual crits wouldn't really be a big deal, you do need that extra AD to give your crits some kick.

I mean, 100 x 2,5 is still only 250.

But 250 x 2,5 is 625.

That AD really does matter to all the crit users, a lot in fact.

And at lvl 11 you get an extra of 43 AD or close to that.

x 2,5 =107.

So just from fully stacked fervor your crits gain 107 damage extra each, this becomes extremely noticeable when you have enough crit and attackspeed, not to mention later when fervor gives more AD.

And this is fully ignoring that your basic autos gain 43 extra damage each x)

AirKingNeoNov 5, 20173 votes

Lethal Tempo is mostly garbage on melees.

Same reason Aatrox is shit. Just walk away and they're negated.

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20171 votes

Most melee's have CC though, they can easily engage, and as tempo is about to start, drop the CC and make as much use of it as possible.

Of course the reverse holds true, you can CC the opponent to avoid taking the trade.

But i have no doubt it's strong in certain matchups and on some champs.

Altho press the attack does seem to be the one that always works.

Kata CouteauNov 5, 20171 votes

tell me now what doI take on gnar? tell me TELL ME

I love gnar and not being able to teamfight right with the champ is not fun

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20171 votes

Not being able to teamfight? Gnar isn't really reliant on auto attacks to make himself noticed in teamfights.......usually it's big gnar CC that's people are scared of.

I think people could really care less about mini Gnar's auto attacks, i mean, he get's raped by marksmen and mages if caught in mini form.

But if you just absolutely wish to make yourself as strong as possible for teamfights with as little risk as possible i´d go for grasp and the health stacking it now has, while you´d have do a lot of it it's safe. And as far as we know, while its a small + each time it stacks infinitely.

If looking to become strong i´d pick lethal tempo i think, Gnar works well with attackspeed after, both mini and mega.

In a teamfight with mini you´d get mega quicker with more attackspeed, and mega would get more auto attacks in between CC. Your all ins in lane would also be more threatening.

RainfallNov 5, 20173 votes

fervor was the only reason some toplaners were relevant,other than that a tank could just rush cdr and bramble vest and just destroy you in lane.How are champions like trundle going to be viable in a meta without fervor? all of his damage comes from autoattacks.

Sun Wu RyuumokuNov 5, 20172 votes

Wtf... Aatrox will be better with lethal tempo... same for yi with leth or press

Kata CouteauNov 5, 20172 votes

no, you can get out kited so easily

Pommel KnightNov 5, 20171 votes

Out kited by who? Are you trying to tell me that Master Yi will get out kited by someone?

Sun Wu RyuumokuNov 6, 20171 votes

Out kited ??? havent u seen Aatrox range ?

KyunseiNov 5, 20172 votes

Wait and see.

Fervor might be too strong currently anyways.

Jerry SeinfeIdNov 5, 20172 votes

Singed can use plenty of the new runes, losing dft still sucks though.

RyusaetherNov 5, 20172 votes

The initial press the attack was a bit similiar to fervor, I liked that and I'm sad that it became a 3 hit keystone that grants things more for the whole team than for you in particular, I think it's a bit lackluster and unsatisfying.

I know they're doing that si it's not only an autoattacker's keystone, but well mages have their options already and you made Warlord accessible to non-AAers already (and worse for them as well), now they are the ones who lack options.

Yet the old press the attack could've been a bit broken in some situation. Maybe you could put a limit like in the old fervor, and make it stack AP as well so Azir and someone else can consider it.

I feel like there are too many options for burst and we lack sustained damage options other than Lethal Tempo. We need something for DoT (even though I hate it) and for AAers who want sustained dmg over multiple targets and not mere atk speed. Take Darius as an example, he maybe wants the sweet atk speed but needs the damage stacked after switching from stacking on a tank and going on the squishy target to dunk it properly.

I get that the change made is supposed to favor sustained damage on a single target, but it doesn't give you any bonus like fervor that you can use on different targets, it's way less satisfying like this in my opinion.

Zed geniusNov 5, 20171 votes

I am quite biased as a yasuo player, but I totally agree with you, I absolutely love fervor as a mastery and I don't see why it has to be removed

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 201715 votes

Issue is the fact that it grants AD unconditionally just for hitting your opponent, this is far too good since it easily becomes extremely rewarding on most melee and all ranged AD champs.

Not to mention it scales with everything related to AD damage, attackspeed,crit, abilties, lethality, armor shredd and odd stuff like Fiora's passive.

In the game fervor is the strongest AD mastery when you are able to use it bar none.

Thus Riot wants a more interactive keystone option where the opponent can do something to deny the free stats that you otherwise would gain just for hitting them.

While also reducing the power given to champs with high AD scalings that like extended fights.

But well, the main issue is just that AD itself scales too well and the opponent can't do anything about a enemy with fervor except avoid any kind of extended fight since the fervor user will inevitably gain free damage just for fighting.

Zed geniusNov 5, 20171 votes

but really press the attack is basically an infinite scaling fervor but has a lower ration and can only be stacked on 1 target. 1V1'ing someone with press the attack will be out of the question, while now you can play around fervor

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20172 votes

They changed it, it now does the following :

Press the Attack - Hitting an enemy champion 3 consecutive times makes them vunerable, dealing bonus damage and causing them to take more damage from all sources for 6s.

It's basically a 3 hit passive.

Zed geniusNov 5, 20171 votes

oh well I haven't kept up with pbe stuff, but this doesn't look that great

ThefrostyvikingNov 5, 20172 votes

It's functional but not terribly innovative basically.

Guess they ran outa idea juice and tinker hat was gone being washed or repaired from excessive use.

Wasteland WraithNov 6, 20171 votes

Avid camille user here and very recently a few called hames under my belt. I'd argue that press the attack is by far a much healthier mastery than fervor will ever be and I'd argue its current power is just fine. I haven't run into any issues with it in particular as it supports a very in and out play style based around CDs while still having all in pressure.

I've never really ever voiced this opinion but I'm and avid believer that fiora is as polarizing of champ as she is because of fervor. Not necessarily anything else about her kit but just how hard her passive scales with the free stats you get from fervor.

Now one thing I can say is that maybe Darius could use some ad back on his passive for the loss of fervor as it was a regular take on him but thats solely up to where he lands after the patch hits.

One thing is for certain that I can agree with that press the attack in itself is fine and far from being hot garbage.

FertsaNov 6, 20171 votes

Some champions abused the fervor version of press the attack, but those same champions abuse the 3 hit version. and they only abused the fervor version because the max number of stacks was...what again? i don't remember 8U

Captain Of CrazyNov 6, 20171 votes

Just move dark harvest from being a keystone to a jungle item and then add back frevor.

jeandalf recksNov 5, 2017

Even if RIOT don`t add ferver back at least they do need to make a mastery that the champions listed above can use and the mastery can also be used by an adc that isn't lethal tempo