This game isnt too snowbally, we just need more health

ICldB3urLolliPop··32 votes·13,766 views

Been playing since beta. Stopped at about season 5/6 for a bit right when they removed wards (wtf?) came back to this....

I instantly noticed 2 things (well 3 if you include the crazy new rune set up).

Game times are substantially shorter Burst damage is substantially higher

I think the combination of those 2 things make the game FEEL more snowbally, but this game has always been snowbally. With some comebacks and bounties though is say this game is not in fact, more snowbally then it was. That is not to say I dont think this game has some new problems. But first.

Sometimes I feel like riot makes changes to market attention and tone down qq, rather then make choices that enhance the game. Runes are cool and exciting and draw attention and new players, but do they ENHANCE the game. It seems like runes have the same problems they've been trying to fix since as far back as I remember...diversity.

But runes don't really add diversity, theirs typically 1 path for most champions in a given pool (role) with some offsets and sometimes choices. For the most part it's pretty 1 dimensional the bottom line is the same. More dmg. But where is the counterbalance?

There's always been a high level of dmg in this game but I feel like you use to have to work more and longer for it. Outplaying your partner in lane was a long process that not only included consistant right choices and mechanics, but also focus and prolonged concentration. Champions like vayne required a high level of concentration and discipline to become effective. It seems like with more emphasis on early game this game has actually lost a bit of its diversity in overall game composition and strat.

I think this could be countered simply by INcreasing HEALTH. Base and growth, so there is still the higher sample pool of time when it comes to laning rather then so much being decided in early trading.

Why not add more utility inside runes like an anti cc trinket they have in wow?

Also I think game time could be extended by about 5 minutes by toning down scaling to still make late game champions developed for late game more viable and exciting to play. No one wants games over an hour usually but 35average with standard deviation of 7 minutes I think is about right with the time lowering ~3-5 minutes in diamond and above. Right now I feel this game is trying to be more an "arena" or "brawl" rather than a moba which focuses more on champion vs champion combat when icwould like it to see it more as a strategy game. That niche spot inbetween dota and hots

TL:DR make early game more forgiving and diverse so player skill can truly shine and show through longer sample pool, time. Increase base and scaling health for less bursting fights without buffing tanks for too long dragged out fights and to extend matches to allow for more diversity in team comps and strategies.

64 Comments

The thigh guy35 votes

Or just resistances that actually work and aren’t just dead stats.

Metal Janna23 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-07T02:07:39.563+0000)

Or just resistances that actually work and aren’t just dead stats.

Resistances aren't even useless. It just feels that way if you get owned and then buy resistances to try and get back in the game... it doesn't work. That's because the kill gold and xp put your opponent ahead and now they bought 600g of offense while you were back buying 300g of defense. Armor and MR work, you just have to buy them BEFORE you start feeding. Once they've gained the upper hand you're already screwed.

The thigh guy21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-07T02:27:43.242+0000)

Resistances aren't even useless. It just feels that way if you get owned and then buy resistances to try and get back in the game... it doesn't work. That's because the kill gold and xp put your opponent ahead and now they bought 600g of offense while you were back buying 300g of defense. Armor and MR work, you just have to buy them BEFORE you start feeding. Once they've gained the upper hand you're already screwed.

They don’t even work when you buy them.

Look through your games and count the number of item 3135 item 3071 item 3035 and conquerer users.

ICldB3urLolliPop4 votes

Another way diversity is lowered it use to be if you were failing behind you could buy armor/mr and play safe/stay alive til relevant. Now it seems it's more beneficial to build damage core build and wait to get a big bounty to become relevant. Which I think is alot of what people are complaining about. You get a big lead and its still easy to get flat out deleted by mis plays, which was always a thing but never this early thanks to runes. Alot of the problems of the tank meta were tanks had TOO much health and damage which was meant to keep them relevant in lane but was overkill when thrown against fighter assassins.

LordGeovanni2 votes

Again tank meta did not come about because tanks had too much resistances or damage. It came about because adcs abusing fighter items got them gutted damage wise with little to no compensation defensive wise. Defensive items also being gutted left fighters in a worse spot than tanks because fighters ahd to rely on tank items too while not stacking as much as tanks But at the same time their damage items being gutted means that they had to but more tank items than ever just to get into range to do damage. The main reason tanks started beating fighters is that Defensive items got worse so that fighters had to drop building both crit and lifesteal without lifesteal to out sustain the tank The fighters ended up having to Rotate their engages like tanks but tanks have better single use combo's and CC. While fighters have better damage but versus a tank. who while Defense is worse are designed to not need damage thus tanks can stack more defense than the fighters build offense with their gimped items or defense which fighters dont build until late game. Losing the ability to sustain is what killed fighters versus tanks. Assassins have always done way better against tanks than they were supposed to because most of the value in defenses are in their first few points which everyone gets as a base the more you stack resists the worse they become and hp is always susceptible to % damage.

Anu3isII6 votes

Resistances are supposed to be more powerful, since most of the times you have to build one type vs your lane opponent while leaving you open to the other type.

Resistances are supposed to give you the upper hand when ahead and be a small comeback mechanic when behind in lane.

Ex: Merc Treads vs Sorc Shoes. 10 More MR + Passive.

Now, it depends HOW much one feeds to get to the point where even resistances no longer work.

Mártir2 votes

Agree a bit on this one.

  • God, I SCREAM to my team (without Flaming, though), to buy Hexdrinkers and Banshee veils, against a team of 4 enemy APs and a hybrid ADC like Kaisa or Ezreal, and they wont.
  • Or I'd insist that the enemy has a Soraka, Mundo, Vladimir, and Sylas, and they will not buy Anti-heals...

THEN THEY'D WONDER WHY THEY'VE LOST... xD

ShiraZen8 votes

Am I the only person who just thinks that a 10% damage nerf against Champions across the entire game would make everything MUCH better?

Raiyza10 votes

Nope. We've been begging for this for 4 years now.

I gave up and quit.

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

Hasn't happened because it's a blind shot into the dark which doesn't address any actual problems, and is a half-ass blanket solution.

Mihalikb4 votes

Is it tho? It addresses the problem in one fell swoop.

The easiest way to do it is by adjusting all AD and AP values on every single item.

Then selectively certain items can be buffed or changed until an overall healthy meta is achieved.

Tho the thing is... Burst Meta is clearly what Rito wants. This is made self evident by every single recent rework and new champion. Burst, piled on burst, piled on burst.

You know, like how they made Pantheon from a poke champ with some burst into kill you in 2.3 seconds extraordineaire!

ArtumisPrime2 votes

People have also suggested that RIOT release a game mode which is exactly summoner's rift where damage is severely toned down to test the waters with such a thing.

Raiyza1 votes

I disagree. Riot doesn't have to touch base damages for champions, but things like B.F Sword/Infinity Edge, Ability damage, can all be toned down. i would fully support this, and maybe just maybe I would play again. I miss the game, but its so horribly balanced. it's impossible to enjoy.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

See, that's not a blanket nerf, that's exact. You're targeting items and stats, not just throwing a blanket 10% down on everything.

Raiyza1 votes

That's fair.

I'd love to see items reworked completely to give them more tradeoffs with stats, while also nerfing the numbers. For example, instead of item 3102 giving AP, CDR, spellshield, AND MR, rework it so it only gives the spellshield and AP or CDR. Not all 4. That way players will have to build more specifically towards the opposing team/state of the game.

I wish Riot would make the game more strategic, but they've been moving towards a killfest. Just not fun. I want to play league, not call of duty.

KSLG1 votes

10% would be too big of a change. That's like giving everyone the passive of item 3143 but half of it and its for everything even abilities. It would slow down the game into another tank meta or extend the games 10 - 15 minutes longer. It would also make champions like Zed Evelynn be useless (maybe IDK Eve's Ultimate is crazy sometimes) .

Kovorix5 votes

Jesus howk everyone thinks "hurrdurr -5dmg tank meta". Have you actually looked what pathetic numbers 10% would be? Early game not even noticable and late game on a 400dmg spell it would be 40 less damage. Even on 1000 dmg it would only be 100.

KSLG2 votes

It could differentiate between a kill or not plus AAs would feel horrible CSing would take a bit longer and would make bruisers slightly less powerful. Maybe buff resistance a bit or nerf the armor pen/ MR pen most bursty champs have.

LordGeovanni3 votes

Well duh differences cause different results you just have to learn to adjust the only people that this would even feel bad on would be people who couldnt auto weave or combo skills because of clunky kits like tanks and mages and adcs mid game as they would be able to 1 shot the wave a little later. Of course not being able to 1 shot at a point you previously could would feel bad but it also feels bad on the other side being one shot at a point where you could have previously survived which is what already happened.

ZackTheWaffleMan3 votes

he literally said "10% damage nerf against Champions"

it would not affect CSing in any way

LordGeovanni2 votes

Although people like to say tanks do too much damage (when they walk up to them with no defenses built in melee range of their short range skills.) they woun't be able to farm if they get a damage decrease and not the mage i wont be able to farm cause ill one shot the wave half an item later and it would take me time to adjust.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

Although people like to say tanks do too much damage (when they walk up to them with no defenses built in melee range of their short range skills.) they woun't be able to farm if they get a damage decrease and not the mage i wont be able to farm cause ill one shot the wave half an item later and it would take me time to adjust.

yes because buying tank items on champions that need damage to be viable, just so they don't get 60% of their hp chunked away by 1 full combo from a lvl 5 nautilus with full tank build is normal...... in the meanwhile the champion building full damage can't even chunk 10% hp from that nautilus in a full combo balanced [zombie-brand-facepalm]

LordGeovanni1 votes

If you dont BUILD DEFENSE Dont expect to not take tons of damage. Bull shit no Full tank Nautilus 60%'s any squishy champion building full damage without being 3 levels ahead. Yes it is balanced even if it were to happen because these champions are balanced on staying away and dealing tons (gimmie 70% of your hp bar from 2 spells on a mage or in 1.5 seconds versus an adc) of damage while being far and safe adcs even have the ability to heal damage they took despite their already safe position. the power of 300 more range is that strong and even more so coupled with speed to juke anything thrown at them. armor and magic resist will always only block a portion of damage while adcs and mages work on the philosophy that you block 100% of the damage that doesnt hit.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

If you dont BUILD DEFENSE Dont expect to not take tons of damage. Bull shit no Full tank Nautilus 60%'s any squishy champion building full damage without being 3 levels ahead. Yes it is balanced even if it were to happen because these champions are balanced on staying away and dealing tons (gimmie 70% of your hp bar from 2 spells on a mage or in 1.5 seconds versus an adc) of damage while being far and safe adcs even have the ability to heal damage they took despite their already safe position. the power of 300 more range is that strong and even more so coupled with speed to juke anything thrown at them. armor and magic resist will always only block a portion of damage while adcs and mages work on the philosophy that you block 100% of the damage that doesnt hit.

nautilus certainly takes away about 50 to 60% hp from any adc or mage, that doesn't have a shield, and no he doesn't need to be ahead of levels, we were equal level.

Nanuk Pihoqahiak1 votes

My solution was a bit more involved:

Do a ten percent nerf to damage, healing, and shielding / resistance scaling. This makes it so everything stays relative and healers / tanks don't get out of control from having just damage nerfed. However, health remains largely unaffected, leaving more of a cushion for trading hits.

only luciano7 votes

First started playing in 2015 and the difference is now that with most champs once you die the lane is basically over. From there on out you have to out macro them.

Devilreaper XIII2 votes

[{quoted}](name=only luciano,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-10-07T09:05:51.694+0000)

First started playing in 2015 and the difference is now that with most champs once you die the lane is basically over. From there on out you have to out macro them.

tell that to darius^^ he just keeps owning the game no matter what.

Z3SIeeper3 votes

In what world? I’ve never bopped a Darius in lane only for him to come back.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

In what world? I’ve never bopped a Darius in lane only for him to come back.

as expected on NA [sg-miss-fortune]

LordGeovanni1 votes

yeah because he has % missing hp heal on air.

Vlada Cut5 votes

Vayne would like to know your location

LordGeovanni2 votes

Why it doesnt effect her in any way but positively

Vlada Cut1 votes

{quoted}

Why it doesnt effect her in any way but positively

Because she knows it's good business

Lovelle5 votes

So are we just going to ignore all the bonuses from runes that reward takedowns? Meanwhile, the resolve tree has practically negligible scaling

OneMustFall4 votes

"The only reason you killed me is because I ran out of health"

ReportsR4Losers4 votes

True damage and life-steal both need to go. Crit needs to be toned down. Towers need a buff.

Rαy4 votes

Agreed. The lack of resistances can't handle the insane amount of damage the new runes provide.

Princess Bunhead2 votes

Isn't that called conditioning now, that for some reason only kicks in 10 mins into the game? Oo

Even if they changed it to 1 AR/MR per level (+ 10% resistances at 10 minutes), it would still not be overpowered, in this damage crazed shitfest that is LoL...

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Princess Bunhead,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JHA6AAyH,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2019-10-08T10:26:03.465+0000)

Isn't that called conditioning now, that for some reason only kicks in 10 mins into the game? Oo

Even if they changed it to 1 AR/MR per level (+ 10% resistances at 10 minutes), it would still not be overpowered, in this damage crazed shitfest that is LoL...

Or even bring that Resolve mastery "Veteran Scars" that gave 10/20/30/40/50 health.

Or what if Conditioning gave half of the effect immediately and the other half at 10 minutes?

943721483 votes

We just need assassins to actually get a nerf for once in the last 7 years

SomeOneButNoOne1 votes

{quoted}

We just need assassins to actually get a nerf for once in the last 7 years You mistook Assassin's and Mages. The only worriesome assassins that can legitmately one shot you, if even, are Zed & Kha'Zix (if you're isolated), with Rengar being somewhere near them. While a Luden's Echo mage, will burst down a squishy within seconds unless they have some defensive items, and if they do, they will deal around 70-80% hp, with one rotation. Now, you may say "Well, you can dodge that!" but every mage has a Reliable ability, that will land in 95% of the scenarios if you're half-decent on the mage, and it will chunk you for about 40-60% max hp, if you're building glasscannon.

The problem being, if you're not building glasscannon on ADC's/Assassin's; you won't have damage. If you don't have damage, you cannot kill the threat anyway. Therefor, the meta is all about high-reliable-damage, that has self-peel.

Vayne is not good enough for the meta, due to the fact she needs to get really close to dish out her damage, and if you get accidentaly hit by an AoE, from a 3 item mage (1 spell) you lose 50-70% healthpoints...

SomeOneButNoOne2 votes

I love it how people are like "BUT VAYNEEEEE!" And then you look at botlane in any relevant elo, and all you see is Kaisa/Ezreal with an ocassional Caitlyn...

KSLG1 votes

Ezreal is in a bad spot RN though, don't know why he's still being played in the meta.

SomeOneButNoOne3 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal is in a bad spot RN though, don't know why he's still being played in the meta.

It's insanely simple. He has self peel (with IBG legitamately uncatchable), he literaly one shots squishies and he has a common ground with Kai'sa. As in, he gets to build Banshee's/Zhonya's, while still dealing damage. The only difference being, Kai'sa doesn't care for tanks, while Ezreal struggles against them, and is unable to kill them fast enough. So basicly, the Ezreal vs Kaisa game, is in Ezreal's favor, as long as the enemy team is relatively squishy. If they have a, lets say, Malphite to soak up ezreal's Q's & W's, he's useless. While Kai'sa, has less self peel, but her damage is N-U-T-S no matter who she focuses down, and she still has access to Zhonya's&Banshee's while dealing insane amounts of both physical & magical damage, so she's really hard to itemize against as she has %missing HP damage, wich shreds even through MR.

Tl;dr Ezreal is a god vs a squishy team, that doesn't have a full tank to soak his skillshots. Kaisa is a goddess regardless of the team, all due to the ability to abuse mage itemization (zhonya's/banshee's).

boricCentaur11 votes

Let me just look up the average game time and it's around 30 mins which is pretty much the standard. So by looking at your post for like 4 seconds I already know you are just making stuff up. If you can't make a comeback in 30 mins you should lose like basically every assassin will have fallen off and most tanks will be close to full build like that's late game.

The game is only snowbally because you let it nothing else. Player skill is learning how to play early game.

The only time I felt the game is snowbally is when someone just feeds but that's not that games fault it's the players.

Blue Shift4 votes

It's the game's fault when junglers are rewarded for not jungling and just spam ganking, when killing someone not only means they lose out of gold and exp, but also means the enemy gets extra tower plate gold, when they add more objectives into the game earlier so a team that's ahead can get even more ahead by taking dragons that are too impactful, and rift herald which is either a free 800 gold from platings + first turret, or free second tier turret.

ICldB3urLolliPop4 votes

I'm glad you brought up junglers. Right now players who choose more jungly farmy junglers like hecarim are getting punished/handicapped to almost anyone with an early game lane presence. I havnt tried it yet but I bet shaco is disgusting rn.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Shaco hasnt been not disgusting since i started this game mid season 2

ICldB3urLolliPop5 votes

If you spent more than 4 seconds reading this topic youd realize it's not about increasing game length but increasing game diversity but longer fights and laning. And scaling back certain aspects like plates to allow more game styles then "win your lane." 30min is a good game length. But late game oriented teams should see closer to 40 min in drawn out late game strategy oriented team comps. Usually at best your late game characters get to the start of their late game spike, theres one battle, and that's it.

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