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Karma, the really rough laning opponent

2Kawaii4Hawaii·3/13/2015, 4:06:26 AM·2 votes·1,393 views

Yes this thread has some salt, but I will try my best to present a fair argument to support the next statement.

I feel that Karma is too strong

Now with that said, here is the argument:

Take Karma botlane, and you're bringing a lot of natural cc, and a lot of natural damage, sustain, and utility. It's incredibly hard to catch her without hard cc, her poke has very little counterplay aspects due to it's long range, and if she drops below 50% she can use her w to heal with Mantra bonus. With so much natural damage, cc, sustain, counterplay against her is rather difficult.

Take Karma mid or top lane, build ap with some beef items (item 3027 , item 3116 for example) and add onto that standard apc items (item 3089 , item 3157 , ect.) and you're bringing a ton of damage to the table, without having much risk for gameplay, especially against melee mid laners. You stand back, soul flare the minion wave, or your opponent to zone them out, especially at level 1, where her Q can easily break 100 damage, add on top of that her ultimate bonus, which say they have 40 ability power at level 1 (assuming flat ap runes, straight ap masteries, plus item 1056 ), that's a calculated amount of 215 damage on one ability at level 1. "You forgot about magic resist," Actually I didn't. I also calculated the most amount that you can possibly have level 1 (all flat mr runes, highest lvl 1 mr in the game is 32.1, defensive masteries, bonus gold from utility masteries meaning you can buy a item 1033 at game start, the total mr came out to 103.76) and the damage still came out to 101.13 with the Evasive mastery (reduces aoe mag dam by 4%). That's with unbelievable starting mr for a top or mid laner, with no points in offense, no bonus damage, just straight mr and utility so you can buy mr at game start. That is incredible damage for anyone to have access to level 1, and on top of that, it has slim to no chance of counterplay because of the range on the spell, especially at level 1 where most mid laners don't have enough damage to react on it. Her Q is on a 7 second cd lvl 1, and her ult being on a 45 second cd, but with cooldown reductions built into her kit, which I'm not going to bother trying to calculate the fastest possible cd on her ult lvl 1, it's still incredible amounts of damage she's able to put out, with very little oppurtunity to counterplay with such long range. I'm not just trying to argue level 1 stats, because she's incredibly strong throughout the game.

I'm not trying to criticize or offend the Karma players out there, but this needs to be addressed.

If you have anything to counterargue this in a civil manner, please do so below. If you feel I'm just some bronze noob that needs to "get over it" or "stop complaining" then please just move on to the next post. Negative feedback doesn't help solve anything, only adds fuel to the fire.

4 Comments

Kitten of Evil3/13/2015, 4:34:40 AM5 votes

She's strong early-game, yes. She falls off though in damage. That's how she's balanced.

Q deals a bunch of damage, yes, but only if you get hit by both parts at level 1. 80 + 60% AP without Mantra, 105 + 90% AP with Mantra on-hit, 155 + 150% AP with Mantra if you get hit by both. You should not get hit by both. It is fairly easy to walk out of it, unless you're otherwise CC'ed.

She has no ultimate skill, only an augment for her other skills -- thus, no level 6 power spike like most champions. Her damage output also peaks at level 9, like Vlad, since her other skills are utility rather than damage.

W deals a good bit of damage, but is incredibly easy to break. Its leash range is the same as its initial cast range, so if you increase that gap by ANYTHING it breaks. It's great as a defensive tool if someone uses a gap closer to get close to her. If you save your gap closer to break it, it does her no good. Play around this fact.

E deals literally no damage unless she's Mantraing E instead of Q, in which case you shouldn't be worried about her damage.

TL;DR virtually her ENTIRE damage budget is sunk into one skill -- Mantra + Q. Of course it hurts.

Noob Slaýer3/13/2015, 4:08:25 AM3 votes

i totally agree with you. Karma super strong. She counters so much champs with gap closers such as tryndamere. Just tether him when he gets close and tell him to slow the fk down

sortitus3/15/2015, 6:22:05 AM2 votes

Let's look at her kit objectively. Because she has no nukes unless you get rooted in her empowered Q, her damage is low for a poke champion. She goes out of mana slightly slower than the average mage because her mana use is spread out over a long period of time like her damage. She's hard to catch or run from due to her utility-focused kit. Like most other mages, she is squishy when caught.

She is weakest against hard engage or extreme sustain. She is strongest against low cc, low range, and immobile targets. She isn't often picked partially because she isn't any champion's strongest counter pick. Her power curve flattens out after she gets an item or two while other mages continue to scale well into the late game.

The biggest mistake people make when playing against Karma is standing near their minions while farming. If you stand within Q splash range of minions, it's free harass for her. If you're picking melee opponents into her, that's a huge mistake. If you're first picking them, then there are champions who can take more advantage of that than she can.