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We need to nerf Nasus

Rabbi Goldstein··4 votes·2,978 views

I have been playing League Of Legend for about 4 years now, having played since around the middle of season 2 and in all my time playing i have seen many shifts in the meta. Champions have always had points in time where they were weak or strong in a given patch, but none have been as ridiculous and unfair as Nasus. I have played countless games where an entire team was losing in lane but because of a single Nasus the game was turned around due to him just killing the ADC or Mid lane in 1 or 2 Q's. It is a serious issue and is completely unfair, especially now in a time where if Nasus is allowed to get the new Rift Herald buff and a Trinity force it adds on the the already immense power of a stacked Q from Nasus. Even if he only has around 100-200 stacks and is losing lane he becomes an immense issue due to the fact that he can build full tank and has a W that allows him to slow an opponent in both movement speed and attack speed by 35%, which amplifies as time goes on, while shredding armor with his E and extending the range of his Q with his R, which essentially kills any squishy champion (such as an assassin or ADC) in 1 or 2 Q's, which can go on a cooldown as low as about 2.5 seconds. I Truly believe Nasus is in long need of a major nerf, whether it be increasing his Q cooldown, removing the lifesteal in his kit which gives him insane survivability in both lane and teamfights, reducing the stacking damage on his Q or even taking away the stacking mechanic and just adding a base amount of damage. Many people will probably see me as just another bad player who thinks that a champion should be nerfed because I don't like them, which in all honesty is partially the case here, but even though i may not be the best player, only being in bronze 2, i truly do believe that a champion like Nasus just completely goes against the design of a fair and balanced champion and measures should be taken to make this champion fair and fun not only for the person playing them, but also for the person having to play against them aswell.

18 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Wrote this up quite a while ago so it might be a little outdated, but the advice should still be useful.

Nasus isn't generally that difficult to deal with properly and you won't really run into any good ones in Bronze anyways.

One of the most important factors is wave-control. Whenever I play Nasus, I always try to freeze the wave just outside my tower since it makes it difficult for many opponents to harass me, can make me difficult to gank without a risky tower-dive, and leaves my enemy over-extended and exposed to ganks.

Against Nasus, you want to get the minion wave on your side of the lane and freeze it. Nasus has no mobility and his only ranged attack has a high mana-cost and shoves the wave against him, so this can let you chunk him for every CS he goes for and deny him the opportunity to sustain. It also makes it easy for your jungler and/or mid-laner to gank him and harder for you to get ganks.

I generally recommend playing durable, high-damage champions against Nasus. While some squishy champions can make his life horrible early, he will generally murder them with 200 stacks and Sheen (roughly 10 minutes into the game). Nasus can't effectively itemize penetration without sacrificing durability, so champions who can stack armor and MR mitigate his damage greatly.

The following champions are quite good at dealing with Nasus (in my experience):

DrMundo This is my default counter-pick to Nasus. You quickly become unkillable and your mixed sustained damage will gradually eat through him. I typically manage to first-blood Nasus at level 2 without jungler intervention as Mundo and snowball off of that.

Darius Renekton Garen Olaf These champions can build Black Cleaver into defensive items (i.e. Deadman's Plate, Sunfire Cape) to trade with Nasus. They are strong early-game, have innate sustain and they can trade favourably with Nasus so long as they can control the minion wave. In addition, Wither doesn't effect them too badly.

Trundle While Wither can cut your damage output, Trundle's early-trade potential and sustain can let you build a lead against Nasus. Late-game, Trundle can crush Nasus in a 1v1 fight (so long as you have QSS for Wither) and his ultimate will make Nasus squishy during teamfights (while making Trundle unkillable). I'd probably recommend Blade of the Ruined King -> Sunfire Cape in this match-up. Also, Trundle can solo buff camps at level 1, so I'd recommend stealing the enemy red or blue buff and then teleport to lane after basing; you will have an experience advantage and the minion wave will be pushing towards your tower.

Malphite and Maokai have worked surprisingly well in my experience. They are capable of farming against Nasus easily, scale extremely well into the game and are capable of beating Nasus in fights when played appropriately. They get far too durable for Nasus to really hurt pretty quickly, letting you fight him regularly and easily set up ganks against him (or gank elsewhere when the opportunity arises).

Vladimir can be a painful match-up as Nasus. While you are both rather weak early-game, you both scale extremely well and Vlad has the range advantage. Vladimir is one of the few match-ups who can constantly harass Nasus under-tower and out-sustain him. Once Vladimir has Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Void Staff, it can be very difficult to deal with him (especially if he has Boots of Swiftness to kite you).

Champions in other lanes are quite capable of countering Nasus too.

Malzahar can kite and murder Nasus at pretty much every stage of the game if he has his ultimate. If he builds appropriately (i.e. Rod of Ages, Rylai's Crystal Scepter, Liandry's Torment, Void Staff), he can even wear Nasus down without it due to his high damage and durability.

MasterYi is capable of dueling Nasus whenever he has his ultimate available. Highlander makes Master Yi immune to attack speed and movement speed slows, which renders Wither (Nasus' main defensive tool) useless. Master Yi will typically be able to kill Nasus through raw DPS while Skirmisher's Sabre and Meditate can be used to reduce the damage Nasus deals to him.

Most supports and kite-oriented mages/ADCs are quite capable of peeling him off his targets. This extends to pretty much the entire support class too.

item 3047 are especially valuable against Nasus as most champion. In addition to providing armor, it reduces the damage of his Q and basic attacks by an unmitigateable 10%.

item 3116 and item 3022 and item 3025 are very useful to have on your team against Nasus since they can help your team kite him during teamfights, preventing him from reaching or sticking to targets.

Ars Techne1 votes

I agree with all of this, but, other than with a trundle or maybe yi, come late game Nasus is an unstoppable force. But at that point, it depends on if his team can hold to late game, so definitely good advise for solo players. Upvoted

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Honestly, I'd say Nasus is far strong mid-game than late-game.

By the late-game, he tends to fall off due to:

  • ADCs have itemized to deal with him (i.e. Guardian's Angel, Randuin's Omen, QSS)
  • Teamfights are occuring frequently, in which he is vulnerable to being kited
  • He can't really itemize armor penetration to get through the enemy team's (or sometimes carries) armor
  • Enemy carries have itemized penetration (i.e. Void Staff, Lord Dominik's Regards) and have the damage to kill him.

He's difficult for many to duel, but you can generally deny him those opportunities if you play it correctly.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Still looks pretty relevant except for the bit about Revolver on Vlad.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Noted and fixed. Thank you.

Ars Techne2 votes

If I'm correct and remember right, Nasus hasn't been buffed or nerfed in a year, and only to the slow. But the fact is that an an unlimited stacking and non-reducing stack mechanic is broken. Even with Cassandra's old stacking mechanic had limitations. As well, Tresh's stacking mechanic was nerfed due to him getting tanky without needing to build any armor. And the fact that Nasus's is based on farming, something he can easily do mid game even if he was shut down early, it is a problem.

So let's break the ability down and attack it from the perspective of a developer.

  • Melee Range
  • 20 Mana cost (flat)
  • 4 second CD (at max) 2.4 with max CDR
  • 100% AD
  • 110 bonus damage (max)
  • +1 damage per stack
  • 3 stacks per minion on death
  • 6 stacks per champ, or large minion or monster
  • AA reset

The first things that pops out is that this ability allows an extra attack with bonus damage every 2.4 seconds for a negligible amount of mana, despite the stacks.

3 stacks per minion, 6 minions per wave offers an extra possible 18 damage every 30 seconds, over a 20 minute game is an additional 720 damage... Uhh, hehe, what?! Now typically no one is going to get every minion, but the fact that unopposed and with a fair amount of skill a player could get 720 stacks in 20 minutes (22 technically, but stay with me) is a huge red flag.

Usually built with trinity force which triples the basic attack damage, making the auto damage as Q is queued 357 plus 75 from trinity is, for 432 damage at max level. Added to a common 250 stacks and 110 bonus damage is 792 damage per strike. 158 of which will be healed by the passive

With the average ADC having less than 2k hp at max level, this is indeed 1/3 of their hp. So you are not wrong that a typical Nasus should be killing an ADC in 3 Q's.

Having a base HP of 2091 HP with a typical build having around 1550 additional HP puts Nasus's displayed HP at 3641 HP. With 84 base armor and 130 typical armor in the build, making 214 armor, makes Nasus's effective HP 11,432 HP. Having an ADC doing 500 damage per auto, this would effectively mean that Nasus can take 23 auto's before he dies, which is about 12.5 seconds of undeterred attacked. But with the healing, Nasus would effectively get another 1000 effective hp back from 3 Q that can happen in 7.2 seconds. Killing the carry before the carry can kill him. But this isn't a pokemon game either, where they just stand there slapping each other.

This is where the topic of synergy comes in, google it if you don't know it. With W no enemy can escape Nasus for the next 5 seconds. Making any non-armored target only have 2.2 seconds, from melee range, to escape or they will die.

As well as the synergy of the 40 armor reduction from the E

With the synergy of Nasus's Ult, he gains an additional 600 displayed HP, or with the build an additional 1884 effective hp. As well, he can get up too an additional 300 bonus AD. This making his Q deal 1092 damage, and so explains your mages and carries getting 2 shot.

So over all, the Q by it's self is not overpowered. In fact, on a carry type champion it would be a great mechanic. The problem comes from the synergy of his abilities and the fact that they are not hard to chain together, no skill shots. As a duelist with W, he cant be beat, and with his ult and E, he effectively shreds teams while taking very little damage. So, yes. I would say he is over powered, and based on his kit there is little to do to stop him especially if the game runs long.

This is my idea for nerfing him so he can still feel effective and be a very good split laner while at the same time not needing that entire team to kill him and him still taking 2 of you with. REMEMBER, THIS IS MY OPINION! I would love to actually test these changes to see if I'm right or wrong, but since I can't this is what looks good to me.

  • First, I would say have the bonus damage of Q's stack be related to AD, so that he would have to build some damage to maintain the 1092 while in ult. As well, this damage cannot be applied to towers. Have you seen a Nasus kill a tower? Its stupid, as he can almost 3 shot towers too.
  • Second, make the W a skill shot. Nasus is inescapable with his W as a point and click and this causes most of the problems as anyone he runs into 1v1 is effectively dead at the moment.
  • Third, half his armor reduction by half or make it a percentage. At 40 armor reduction it is effectively 2 youmuu's of armor penetration on an ability. This is ridiculous, even if it's meant for shredding tanks.
  • Fourth, reduce the bonus AD from the ult to 100. In a team fight it is easy for Nasus to gain the bonus AD from his ult, especially if he meanders by the tanks as he starts is as it does. For a Champ that builds tanky giving him almost 4 Blood Thirster's bonus AD from his ult is impressively over powered for the rest of his kit.

Hope my feed back is helpful!

Swiftstrike42 votes

I feel like I see these threads about once a month and they typically come from players at lower Elos.

I main Nasus and he is very killable and teams CAN deal with him quite easily. Crowd control him and spend a coordinated effort dealing with him whenever he over extends.

Looking at your game that Nasus didn't even have an optimal build for the champ.

People always say deny farm, but the reality is that a good Nasus can farm regardless of your poke. You either have to make a concerted effort to kill him in early laning or let him farm so that you can farm as well. That way you can roam and kill other people. Putting pressure on the map is how you beat Nasus. Nasus doesn't like leaving lane and making his team fight 5v4 early if a good way to secure a win verse him.

I have a lot of trouble against Darius and Pantheon mains and most of the other champions mentioned earlier like mundo and malphite give Nasus problems because he can't kill them easily and they bring a lot of utility to team fights.

Nasus doesn't need a nerf, you just need to stop fighting on Nasus' terms. He excels in small skirmishes with teams that have low crowd control and low coordination. Just because he scales infinitely does not mean he needs a nerf, it simply means you are playing against him incorrectly. He is not an overbearing champ and his win rate is pretty much just above 50%. In higher Elo Nasus isn't very viable.

He sucks in the early game. He sucks in team fights. He sucks against high CC comps. He sucks against a team full of tanks. He sucks when he leaves lane to often.

Ratpie1 votes

{quoted}

I feel like I see these threads about once a month and they typically come from players at lower Elos.

I main Nasus and he is very killable and teams CAN deal with him quite easily. Crowd control him and spend a coordinated effort dealing with him whenever he over extends.

Looking at your game that Nasus didn't even have an optimal build for the champ.

People always say deny farm, but the reality is that a good Nasus can farm regardless of your poke. You either have to make a concerted effort to kill him in early laning or let him farm so that you can farm as well. That way you can roam and kill other people. Putting pressure on the map is how you beat Nasus. Nasus doesn't like leaving lane and making his team fight 5v4 early if a good way to secure a win verse him.

I have a lot of trouble against Darius and Pantheon mains and most of the other champions mentioned earlier like mundo and malphite give Nasus problems because he can't kill them easily and they bring a lot of utility to team fights.

Nasus doesn't need a nerf, you just need to stop fighting on Nasus' terms. He excels in small skirmishes with teams that have low crowd control and low coordination. Just because he scales infinitely does not mean he needs a nerf, it simply means you are playing against him incorrectly. He is not an overbearing champ and his win rate is pretty much just above 50%. In higher Elo Nasus isn't very viable.

He sucks in the early game. He sucks in team fights. He sucks against high CC comps. He sucks against a team full of tanks. He sucks when he leaves lane to often.

He is a force to be recogned with, but if you have some good CC, he is crushed. (If your team has no cc, your comp sucks) I had a really fun dance with Anivia vs a fed Susan. He was walled or stunned till he died.

maxaroni1181 votes

i truly believe ur jsut unhappy about losing a winning game when all u had to do was push in towers so nasus cant farm up his stacks

honestly people say oh zeds op or ekko is op or rengar is just unfair

NO

u guys just dont play against the strengths each champ has! I will bet u didnt see the nasus for half the game cuz he was free farming

then he came over with 500 stacks and oneshots your adc. why? bcuz ur adc is probs fed and only built damage due to not seeing a threat

against a nasus? deny farm. thats all

Sylverblitz2 votes

{quoted}

against a nasus? deny farm. thats all

You know, as someone that has done that repeatedly it only works for about 4, maybe 5 levels. After that his Q is on a cooldown that lets him farm completely safely under his tower. Keep him pushed and you get ganked and you cannot afford to have your jungle stay there to counter-gank.

Instead of just saying "deny farm" how about you mention what champion you use and how you go about doing this reliably? Any fool can shove a lane to the enemy turret but then what? You're open to ganking while he farms under his tower happily. Roam? Guess who is still farming. The biggest annoyance of any Nasus you face is that the player picking them has essentially forced you to permanently be in his face all game to make it a 4 v 4 or you suffer later when he walks up, presses Q and your team melts.

maxaroni1181 votes

play good dueling champs... u realize there are counters to nasus right? for one, play lulu top. shes hella good and she can hell deny him farm just from zoning.

Eclipse Leona1 votes

as for losing games thanks to Nasus, that's probably because your team let's him stack.. without his stacks he has no damage. Q is his only serious Damage dealer, W just slows en E doesn't really do much damage (does increase Q's power,((but without stacks no damage at all) as for him going tanky, A last whisper / Mortal Reminder would do.

ObscureParticle1 votes

The whole point is that he's able to get his stacks regardless of if you punish him or not. The only way of delaying (stopping him is not happening) is to to clear minions at your tower and freeze lane. But eventually the longer the game drags, it starts to become ridiculous even if he was losing earlier.

Lil Trash1 votes

I mean the a fed nasus can 1v5 any time. After 300 stacks he becomes a beast. There is nothing you can do. Before people say about kiting nasus will lifesteal his health back in no time. So yeah a lot of people say nasus is broken and yeah he is he does need a nerf and i'd that he needs a nerf on his q scaling and his passive.

Sinister Vlad1 votes

=_= Ofc Nasus mains wouldn't want this, they're having a blast. But the truth of the matter is around mid game he already has the potential to win the lane and in late game, AD carries are like minions to him. I understand that high elo players know how to deal with him, but he's making lower elo matches unplayable.

Fullmetallic1 votes

Chunk him down when he goes in for a stack. freeze wave near his tower. try to get lots of early ganks so you can dominate early. Nasus is fine.

FOX Fenix1 votes

Nope, Doesnt work. Me as Midlaner and Toplaner i have seen a Nasus that heals everything up if he freezes the lane ore not. I actually played against a Nasus couple hours ago and i realised that he is nearly impossible to kill after just item 3047 , Yes i know it is op. But i played as Gangplank and mostly everyone knows that a Gangplank with item 3057 Deals a lot of damage. As well as the new runes system where it involves Klepto, That means that a single q of Nasus Can give you a item 2012 item 2060 item 2059 and probably other stuff. But as Nasus gets armor and you thinking about his passive for a sec as well as we have Klepto where he can get a item 2010 For example, He can dive you after 100 stacks and its nothing you can do about it. DrMundo is a good counter to Nasus. But you see a Nasus almost every game in EUW servers. And it seems very broing playing DrMundo 24/7. People dont usually main DrMundo. Where most toplaners main Riven Gangplank Yasuo Camille Teemo ore even Ornn that deals a lot of damage in early even being a tank.

That is my opinion on it. {{DrMundo -jinx-catface}}

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