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Riven CC cancels discussion and ignorance (lack of knowledge of a specific bug)

Lethal Learning··374 votes·20,171 views

Hey guys i am Adrian Riven the person who discovered the cc cancel bug with Riven. i got linked to some of the posts that have been poping up lately on the boards and i have to say there is a lot of wrong information being spread about this bug and it mostly seems to be because people have no idea how it actually works.

here's an example working on another champion

https://i.gyazo.com/b1a76814d6045567c5286e10af2ca03f.gif

First of all this bug is not something that is only exclusive to riven, It is just easier to accomplish on riven because of the fact that she can use 2 dashes at any given moment. Every single champion that has a dash can currently cc cancel displacements. And there are some dashes like poppy e that can currently cancel lee sin r completely by just input buffering her e once he gets in your range. (also if you didn't know, You can flash any type of displacement ability and it wont move you if timed correctly. Such as poppy Ultimate.) So i'm going to basically correct some of the information that got spread here recently by uninformed players.

1."She has a known, extremely game-changing bug that is relatively easy to do, and people are abusing it. "

False. Not even challenger riven players are able to abuse this bug reliably because it has to be frame perfect for it to work and its also so extremely situational that you would only use this 1 out of 300 games. Most of the time you would kill yourself for trying to accomplish this bug( not exaggerating)

2."Riven is not just causing issues with displacement effects on dashing. This is not a hook/pull/knockback only issue. She is able to remove any and all forms of CC."

Again incorrect info. The only cc that can be canceled by the use of dashes is displacements and knockups with 2 parts of cc.(Again this dash bug can be replicated with every single champion with a dash. I REPEAT ITS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO RIVEN)

3." Ez still gets cc after his teleport.Riven totally remove any cc."

Riven and any other champion that uses this bug will still be cced through it since you still see the cc bar on top of the champions.

TL'DR. EVERY champion with a dash can do this bug Stop spreading false information because a riven rekt you. Sincerely a challenger player.

Posts i got linked

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/LjX1bWNy-in-all-seriousness-why-isnt-riven-disabled

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/BZQBX3V0-for-the-love-of-god-fix-riven-already

Also if riot wants to know more information on how this bug works feel free to let them know to message me.

242 Comments

Mira Arya Enthe99 votes

Wooooooooo! I posted about this three times in the past 2 days. Nobody would believe me. Lol

Also huge fan. Let's get this upvoted over all the ignorant topics the boards constantly post.

Supreme Senpai6934 votes

Yeah people just needed something new to circlejerk about. And people cry about why Riot doesn't post in these jokes called gameplay threads. Lol. There's a reason they stick to M&G.

Anidan26 votes

Circlejerking over champions like Riven and Lee are a past-time for people that frequent anything resembling a "balance" board who think they know more about balance or game design than they actually do, and they have been for years now.

Most often when people starting complaining en masse about a champion they're not looking at the bigger picture of why that champion appears to be a problem, they just start seeing the champion look problematic and automatically assume it's because they're a terribly designed, broken and toxic champion that needs gutted or reworked no matter what the actual reason for their strength is. It can't be because the meta right now is early-game-centric with a focus on snowballing that explains why champions like Lee and Vi are popular on a given patch, it has to be because they're ridiculous (notice that often Vi is a good pick whenever Lee is, for basically the same reasons). If the meta favors them then of course they're going to be popular, that's how the design of a MOBA will work - you can't blame the champion for being played to its strengths, that results in what happened to Sejuani during the Cinderhulk era where she gets nerfed, then what actually made her seem problematic (along with other champions) got nerfed, and then she was left to dry after her time in the cucking stool. You change the focus of the meta, you can change what champions will be popular without doing as much alteration to the champions themselves.

Circlejerks (and thus the Gameplay boards) are where logic goes to die, buried in a sea of undeserved upvotes.

Elikain2 votes

Is it a meme that Memes & Games board is actually a better place for balance discussions? I frequent the Gameplay board a lot and i, most of the times, have to play the contrarian to these circlejerk threads. And i'm labeled as Riot's White Knight because of it, not because i might actually know that one thread about a problem does not equal to a problematic champion.

It's way too easy to shit on something than to logically look at it from various perspectives and try to find the reasoning on why they're strong in the first place, yourself. Because we all know that opening your mouth to complain en masse is the way to make Riot force a change, that we again come to complain about when it turns out not to be the best solution...

Anidan2 votes

Looking at things from multiple perspectives is always more difficult than proclaiming something is wrong or broken and being done with it, because when you analyze something from multiple perspectives properly you have to take far more into account: champion design, champion balance, game design as a whole, game balance as a whole, current meta, current goals of Riot themselves, possible future goals, items, masteries, runes, synergies with allied champions, mechanics of the game engine itself, and so on. Sometimes a champion is mostly just strong because there's a few things in particular right now that favor them, but if they're being favored by those things then odds are very high that they're favoring other champions as well, which helps to shape the current meta, which means you would likely accomplish more by balancing those extraneous things than the champions that weren't considered problematic until those few things were bent into their favor.

This happens in DotA2 as much as it happens in League, so I have plenty of experience with looking at things from multiple angles to try and draw a more reasonable conclusion.

Elikain2 votes

That's the point. People just don't want to admit they don't have all the facts, they try to push through their own opinions as solid facts and act like Riot should balance the game according their beliefs. Meanwhile, Riot pulls raw data for their champions and analyzes them from multiple angles and then decides what is the appropriate action to take.

Sometimes it may not turn out as expected but what annoys me the most is when players themselves shrug off "Riot has more data than you" argument like it's a blatant lie while their beliefs are regarded as facts.

From a year or so on the boards, i feel like it's a waste of my time trying to get through these blockheads. And it just pisses me off how ignorant they are. I don't regard myself as being right all the time but i am there to challenge their point of view and force them to consider a different one. If the balance of the game was up to them, we'd be up shit's creek in a single patch. And yet, they continue to believe they could make more improvements in a single patch than Riot has ever made in years - by only removing Yasuo, for example. Because deleting a problem, makes it "fixed"...

Anidan3 votes

Keep up the good fight then, because people will either learn the hard way or they'll continue on to spread the idea that narrow opinions are as valid as far-reaching facts. Sometimes it's not the champion that's the problem, it's what surrounds the champion.

And that assumes they're actually problematic in the first place and it isn't just popularity being misconstrued as problematic.

Zero Skill Tank5 votes

Because both of you are wrong? Meddler claims to already have a fix for this bug - Riven-specific bug of canceling CC with E, not canceling displacements with dashes in general - in testing, so apparently it is there.

Lethal Learning15 votes

Medler talked about an interaction with her e that makes it easier. However she can cc cancel a lot of stuff with just her q. Like thresh flay .

Zero Skill Tank4 votes

Meddler talked about her E cleansing stun associated with displacement, and her input buffering making timing on that bug easier.

Lethal Learning17 votes

"Meddler talked about her E cleansing stun associated with displacement" Every dash on top of each other works the same way. her E isn't special.

Elite4Runner42 votes

I feel like you're missing a mic drop gif at the end of this post.

Knoyle18 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7qDEq2bMbcbPRQ2c/giphy.gif

McFatal17 votes

what people need to understand is that itsnot going to be abused that much in games.

u cant just cc cancel 4 people pumping shit on u and get away with it that easily.

its not easy to pull off regardless of it being active or not.

i have no idea why people hate riven when champs like jayce camille and irelia are allowed to pass through the forums with minor hate

shes so hard to master and her animation cancels are so fun to do.

shes the only reason i play in this boring shithole of a game that allows trolls to shove their foots up my ass and the second i say anything back its considered flaming and toxic.

50000000000000008 votes

To be fair Jayce gets a lot of hate on boards, and Camille is still perma ban tier. Irelia is definitely someone that doesn't get a lot of hate, though.

NineTailedMystic7 votes

Have you seen the boards when Irelia is strong?

vOmvbrawfU6 votes

Is Irelia ever not strong?

Bottom Laner15 votes

item 3152 ? Would it work on this too since it is a dash or is champion exclusive? Also thank you for taking the time to clarify this issue ^-^

Lethal Learning10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Huck Me Farder,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IAMgGh2u,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-19T08:17:57.387+0000)

item 3152 ? Would it work on this too since it is a dash or is champion exclusive? Also thank you for taking the time to clarify this issue ^-^

I have never tested protobelt. but i imagine it should work. Things like vayne q, jayce q etc all work. so unless protobelt is coded differently than a dash. it should work.

Jet Sett1 votes

Can you show us some other video evidence about other dashes and such working the same way? I don't want to be that guy, but you could be the president of Riot Games and I would still prefer a bit more evidence than your untarnished word.

Thank you for clearing this up, don't know how I can explain this to my friends that we can't circlejerk about Riven having a game-breaking bug anymore.

Lethal Learning5 votes

Sure. Ill record a quick one for jax and lee sin. Also ill show you guys the flash trick i was talking about.

Lethal Learning7 votes

here is a quick one but i must go! i have a stream to start and kids to wreck https://gyazo.com/b1a76814d6045567c5286e10af2ca03f

Ravore15 votes

It's literally sad Adrian himself had to say this because this has been answered so many times and people just got downvoted because it isn't the answer they wanted. I hate riven just as much as the next guy but the circle jerk is too real.

williamhammy1059 votes

It was sad to see people complaining about a bug THAT WAS LITERALLY NOT BEING ABUSED BY ANYONE. People were demanding a Riven disable when that bug was not even affecting her win ratio at all and it wasn't even game changing. Well I guess its back to spamming more Yasuo hate threads.

Gnart Even Close8 votes

THANK YOU! I've been trying to explain some of this to people, but I didn't even know that is was this mild. Some people are just so dense and biased that they won't actually take the time to figure out what's going on. Hopefully more people will see this post and stop the circlejerk about it.

Elikain8 votes

I told people in one of those threads (if not both) that if it was so gamebreaking and easy to do, Riven would instantly be disabled and worked on by Riot in the following days. And all the community wants to do is make assumptions that Riot is sitting on their hands doing jack shit and letting the game be abused by means of a bug/exploit easily.

Make no mistake, when Sion could jitter his ult to control it better (by spamming H), Riot banned people who knowingly exploited that bug or used scripts to do so. Why would Riot do that for one champion but completely let the "abuse" continue with another? This problem revolves around the "skilled" champions. A Riven is only as strong as how many bugs can she abuse. That is probably the community's motto. She isn't anything special tho, in that category is also Lee Sin and the rest of the "oh boy, these [Champion Name] mains again" category.

And if this bug isn't just a problem with Riven and isn't as easy to reproduce, it's a bug that's being caused by the old spaghetti code most probably. So Riot can't even disable all of the champions with a Dash to fix it, it's a lot of work that has to be done behind the scenes first. And it's prioritized. This likely isn't a top priority, because of the rarity and scope of the work required to eliminate it.

DorkunedAuras7 votes

I remember being shown a video of a Rek'Sai tunneling to eat a Lee Sin ult.

DunkinNoobs7 votes

Fantasic. Now can you go make a thread about how Yasuo isn't that big of a deal so these babies with stfu about him already?

TyroneWatermelon6 votes

Actually people knew this bug way before you,and in regardless people hate it on Riven specifically because of her braindead EQ resourceless mobility spam-Moreno opportunities to do the trick

McFatal20 votes

{quoted}

Actually people knew this bug way before you,and in regardless people hate it on Riven specifically because of her braindead EQ resourceless mobility spam-Moreno opportunities to do the trick

Go play riven then if she's so braindead

LA Losty11 votes

I get why some players dislike her, but i have never understood why they would call her braindead. She is one of the most mechanically demanding champions on a high level. Love her or hate her, there is no denying it.

Lethal Learning41 votes

A part of your comment sounds like something an ignorant player would say, but i wont focus on that.

I agree the bug had been seen before and people knew it probably existed. But i found specifically what makes it work and how to use dashes specifically to cancel certain types of cc. < that was not known before. So lets switch the "discovered" to "found out exactly how it works"

GULAG 4 U6 votes

Thank god. There is still hope for logic.

Apocalypsic6 votes

I made nearly this exact post and got downvoted to high hell.

Feelsbadman ;(

Hethalean4 votes

'Argument from Authority' baby. It sucks sometimes to not be listened to because 'what do you know eh!?' :( I feel ya

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

Woah, a real life challenger.

Thanks for taking the time to make this post, really helps to clear up a lot of issues and misinformation.

MeDicenWera3 votes

Love you Adrian, nice post <3.

forist2 votes

Does this work with targeted dashes or only linear-directional dashes like riven's?

DarkRitual4 votes

Any. Trist and Ez have been able to do it for Ages.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

Thanks for the post but that doesn't mean it's not bad for the game and shouldn't be removed "because it takes skill to do". That's been Riven's excuse to every balance problem with her in the game.

Wylderthanu15 votes

If they remove it from riven, then they shoulf remove it from every champion

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

When did I say they shouldnt? Honestly the Riven circlejerk is the worst.

Faceroll Tactics13 votes

Cause you only mentioned riven, which implies you only meant her. You even said that's been riven's excuse specifically like it only affects her

Warbird0012 votes

The only person who is ignorant is YOU Adrian. Its a bug that shouldn't be happening, yet Teemo gets disabled and Riven doesn't. Its not so much the bug itself that is a problem for me personally, rather the crippling favoritism that Riot has always shown to certain champions, even when they have things that can break the game.

Who cares about the how or why... Riot have taken their time to fix it and didn't disable Riven in the process yet Teemo gets disabled immediately. Fair... I think not.

This just showcases that Riot are incompetent developers, nothing more.

HeruEdhel13 votes

My dear sir please look at the facts before being an ass. rivens bug happens 1 in 300 games and not easy. Temmo's bug happened every game in every brush and usable to anyone

Lethal Learning18 votes

" Its a bug that shouldn't be happening, yet Teemo gets disabled and Riven doesn't."

Whats your point here? if you read the post you would see that the bug can be done by every champion with a dash. there's no favoritism.

Lord Desert1 votes

Have you tested it with other cc like targeted stuns, knockups, aoe stuns, fears etc too? I know that you can input buffer AAs, so you AA while beeing stuned, so it may be possible to do the same but with dashes canceling the cc completly ?

Lethal Learning7 votes

Yes. The only cc that can be canceled is displacement cc and knock ups with 2 parts of cc. For example blitz e is a 2 part cc so it can be canceled, and a Chogath q is a 1 part ability so it cant be cc canceled.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

How is there no bug, if Riot claims to already have a fix for it?

Info dump on this bug:

We've got a fix for it that should be going out in the next patch (7.2), assuming it passes final testing. That fix address an issue where Riven's E could be used to negate displacement CC and the associated stun (and not just in the intended 'dashes/displacements can override other dashes/displacements' way). Timing was much easier if used in combination with other abilities on her kit (buffering), but could be done with just the E. We don't have a repro on any other displacement cancelling effects besides that one with the E. It's possible there's something else, none of the bug reports we've got had demonstrated other cases yet however. Similarly we've seen reports the bug could be used to cancel non displacement CC, but haven't seen a demonstrated case of that occuring to investigate (if you've got a good repro would love to see it). This bug's been live on Riven for at least a year (probably a lot longer). Given that, difficulty exploiting it reliably in game, lack of increase in average power after the bug began getting discussed, attempts to exploit the bug often leading to Rivens just wasting their abilities mid fight and dashes/displacements in general being able to override existing dashes/displacements we concluded this was not a disable worthy bug.

Lethal Learning3 votes

who said there isn't a bug? Its clear there is one with dashes/knockups lol.

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