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An idea to help stop stomps.

macromite··2 votes·729 views

Is this item concept I came up with.

Crumbling Tower shield http://tosdatabase.net/items//icon/weapon/icon_item_pedimian_tower.png (Looks like something like this but more crumbling) 20 armor 200 HP

UNIQUE PASSIVE- take 50% reduced damage from higher leveled opponents UNIQUE PASSIVE- Once you have taken (Some high but not too high damage number) Damage (Before resistances) Crumbling Tower Shield is destroyed. (gets removed from inventory)

(Melee Only) 600g

I came to the conclusion after thinking pretty hard about potential solutions. It would need to be an item above anything else to make it possible to see use, you shouldn't have runes, masteries, or a champion's kit designed around falling behind. It can't be an offensive based item or it would probably just turn into a lose to win contest. If it's defensive it probably needs some actual defense stats so that characters that need those stats to scale can still feel good about purchasing it as a crutch. It needs to use a mechanic that could be easily viewed and understood, I went with levels because that's a quick one to understand. It needs to give enough defense to be useful, but little enough to not make the champ immortal. I thought about current ali lvl 1 ult power, and how he still pops even with it, and went with that. It should have a punish for purchasing it and relying on it to crutch, It should be a last resort item, not a generally good item. Due to me choosing levels as the main divisive feature, it will naturally go well on bottom laners that are normally behind on levels, and adc is a class that could foreseeably abuse the item, so It can't be allowed on them. supports getting the cheap defense may not be so bad. And due to it being an item for people that have fallen behind it needs to be very cheap. But not cheap enough that waiting and buying it from the shop will merit a massive lane advantage.

What do you think?

14 Comments

Critmaster Garen3 votes

would never invest gold into this.

the idea of taking less damage from higher leveled opponents is pretty good. having it destroyed and losing those 600 gold makes it a noob trap. enemies who are ahead of you are very likely to be able to destroy the thing every time you buy it.

the better approach would be to make it a low cost, cost efficient/slot inefficient item that you would grab for momentary power when behind, and feel compelled to sell later on for a bigger item. very similar to item 1055

macromite1 votes

It's 50% is crazy strong, I realize, so It merited some sort of ridiculous negative to keep it from play, what that was I figured would in most cases be a cost thing, so if it broke and needed to be replaced that could be a way to allow it to get into play earlier without making it insane

i figure otherwise it would probably merit having a cost similar to a bf or a needlessly, or even more, but that would end up being way to slow for a character that might not have the ability to farm safely in lane.

The breaking number could be adjusted so that it would take a midgame fight's worth of damage. Or perhaps it could simply lose its passive after the damage threshold, and need to be repaired at the shop at discount rather than needing to be completely replaced.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

It's 50% is crazy strong, I realize, so It merited some sort of ridiculous negative to keep it from play, what that was I figured would in most cases be a cost thing, so if it broke and needed to be replaced that could be a way to allow it to get into play earlier without making it insane

i figure otherwise it would probably merit having a cost similar to a bf or a needlessly, or even more, but that would end up being way to slow for a character that might not have the ability to farm safely in lane.

The breaking number could be adjusted so that it would take a midgame fight's worth of damage. Or perhaps it could simply lose its passive after the damage threshold, and need to be repaired at the shop at discount rather than needing to be completely replaced.

i still dont think it should break at all.

instead the benefit could just be lowered. instead of putting flat 50% damage reduction onto it, even against enemies that are 1 level ahead, make it scaling on the opponents level for once.

something like 5% damage reduction for every level the opponent is ahead on you, capping out at 20%

plus you could put a cooldown on the item like item 3026 to deactivate the passive for a time, when it "breaks". it would at least allow to keep that 200 health benefit.

but entirely destroying the item will more often than not put you even further behind than you already are. 600 gold down the drain. even if you manage to use the item to make a comeback and go even against the enemy, youll be instantly behind again as soon as it breaks. probably already when you catch up in levels.

macromite1 votes

scaling would be a nono. a champion with so much as a two level lead usually auto wins fights, so long as you don't hard skill into them.

Breaking into a cd could be a good idea though.

And keep in mind, the goal of the item is not to make a comeback and go back even, it's to accept that you are behind, and work around it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

scaling would be a nono. a champion with so much as a two level lead usually auto wins fights, so long as you don't hard skill into them.

Breaking into a cd could be a good idea though.

And keep in mind, the goal of the item is not to make a comeback and go back even, it's to accept that you are behind, and work around it.

the problem is a champion with 1 level lead might actually be weaker against someone with this item.

which creates the weird situation that you get shiton for being slightly ahead.

macromite1 votes

that is why the item is a gold sink.

an incredible negative along with an incredible positive. it is something that one would want to avoid purchasing at nearly all costs, due to the negative, but the positive gives it some incredible upside as well.

In turn, due to the polarizing nature of it's passives, you end up with balance.

An item that both no one wants, yet everyone wants.

The Tank Man2 votes

This looks very cool! Maybe it can be a shield (ingame like janna's shield) on the tower or your idea. Very fun to me.

Cocho1 votes

Winrate 50% > 40%

Annie Diana Fizz Katarina Lux Veigar Zed Kassadin Ekko Akali Rengar Khazix

take 50% reduced damage for 600g

macromite1 votes

melee only, annie, lux, and veig are out

also the rest of those are assassins, that can't afford to be behind, and who the 50% damage reduction would not be of great assistance in that behind situation.

Cocho1 votes

I'm saying the enemies will buy them against these champs, making the assassins useless

macromite1 votes

all of those champions have more than enough to kill through it, especially considering they will have a level advantage. it will just make it less of a, get killed immediately for trying to lane again, and more of a, another intense fight like the first one should have been.

Cocho1 votes

Same could be said about summoner 3 , but its not always true

ValyrianBlade1 votes

{quoted}

Is this item concept I came up with.

Crumbling Tower shield http://tosdatabase.net/items//icon/weapon/icon_item_pedimian_tower.png (Looks like something like this but more crumbling) 20 armor 200 HP

UNIQUE PASSIVE- take 50% reduced damage from higher leveled opponents UNIQUE PASSIVE- Once you have taken (Some high but not too high damage number) Damage (Before resistances) Crumbling Tower Shield is destroyed. (gets removed from inventory)

(Melee Only) 600g

That's 400g worth of armor and 533g worth of health. Or an overall gold efficiency of 933/600 > 155% WITHOUT the passive. That's just bonkers when the passive is what makes the item broken. Its passive is WAY stronger than an elixir which is still worth buying before end-game if you know when the important fight will be, at roughly the same price. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that if such an item were to work, it would need to have a minimum price tag of 1000g with these stats, or ~800g with no stats and just the passive.

I came to the conclusion after thinking pretty hard about potential solutions.

Solutions to what? Your enemy outplaying you and winning? I mean - I don't really see the need for such an item. It seems pretty unfair that you earn a lead and there's an item to negate it. Didn't check that they put themselves further behind in gold to get such an item? Too bad. Play a champion with good poke that doesn't need to all in? Makes this item worthless (poke till it breaks). Play a champion that can't poke and needs to go all in? Sucks to be you.

It would need to be an item above anything else to make it possible to see use, you shouldn't have runes, masteries, or a champion's kit designed around falling behind. It can't be an offensive based item or it would probably just turn into a lose to win contest. If it's defensive it probably needs some actual defense stats so that characters that need those stats to scale can still feel good about purchasing it as a crutch. It needs to use a mechanic that could be easily viewed and understood, I went with levels because that's a quick one to understand. It needs to give enough defense to be useful, but little enough to not make the champ immortal. I thought about current ali lvl 1 ult power, and how he still pops even with it, and went with that. It should have a punish for purchasing it and relying on it to crutch, It should be a last resort item, not a generally good item. Due to me choosing levels as the main divisive feature, it will naturally go well on bottom laners that are normally behind on levels, and adc is a class that could foreseeably abuse the item, so It can't be allowed on them. supports getting the cheap defense may not be so bad. And due to it being an item for people that have fallen behind it needs to be very cheap. But not cheap enough that waiting and buying it from the shop will merit a massive lane advantage.

I agree with all of this analysis. I just still question whether such an item needs to exist in the first place, and if it really does have a place in the game it is definitely too cheap / overtuned.

What do you think?

I'd say lower it to 20%-30% damage reduction (more in line with challenging smite), increase the cost to 750-1000g, and we could have a bit of a winner here. It should be highly situational, as in "there's one fed enemy who I DIDN'T FEED that keeps popping me so I can't carry against them" rather than "I fed my lane and need something to help me come back".

I think it's okay for the mid laner who's doing fine to want help against the fed enemy top. It's not okay for the feeding top laner to get help against the dude he fed.

macromite1 votes

There are a lot of problems with your knowledge base and conclusions. not going to get into it though, it would just turn into a spitting match.

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