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People leaving groups because they aren't already full.

Belgoran··1 votes·626 views

There is a very annoying theme in normal classic team build. People always leave the groups that aren't full. Support and jungle are the worst offenders obviously. The system rewards crappy behavior. If you just quit enough groups. Eventually you will find a full team. This system rewards poor behavior, and rewards being selfish.

This could be different.

When someone "finds a new group" multiple times in a row. They should have an ever increasing wait timer. I am not a designer, so there might be a better way. But I do know that the current system rewards the selfish and hurts the entire population with longer wait times. I understand people should have the option to not be in a group they feel doesn't match their champ/play style. So keep the feature, but put a wait timer on it. Cause if you really just want a "better" team. Then a few seconds wont kill you if you find a new group once or twice. But the people who jump through 5 and 6 groups looking for full ones should have a penalty of some sort. If you are extremely worried about team comp, then you can captain your own game. I know for a fact I am not the only one who feels like the current system is rewarding the wrong kind of behavior. I'm sure there are lots of other things to fix, and idk how difficult it would be to implement some kind of better system. So I'm just putting this out there. Anyone agree? Disagree? What are your thoughts?

9 Comments

disregardable8 votes

Wanna know why I left your group? Sometimes it's because you have "any" listed for both bot lane positions. Sometimes it's because you have marksman Teemo with support Reksai. Sometimes it's because people are being toxic in the chat. Sometimes it's because it's a 4 man premade. Sometimes it's because the team captain asks if the other people in the team approve of my champion choice. Sometimes it's because you tell me to bring a summoner's spell that I don't want to bring. Sometimes it's because you brought a summoner's spell I didn't want you to bring. Sometimes I realize I don't want to play that champion. Sometimes I decide to play another mode instead. And yes, sometimes it's because I sat there for ten minutes with no new people showing up.

Teambuilder is designed the way it is so all of those things are okay. The system is designed to let players decide who they want on their team. That comes at a cost of higher queue times. I'm okay with that. If you don't want longer queue times, then go play draft or blind pick.

balbraaksel1 votes

I agree to this, besides those roles can afford to be picky because they'd quickly get a new team anyway. Which is fair also, because if you'd implement a longer cooldown thing then those that wanted to quickly play (AKA those that pick support) won't queue up anymore on teambuilder for support but for mid or whatever they also like to play more.

Basically it's their right to do whatever they want and anything done against it will likely murder Teambuilder completely.

Belgoran1 votes

You have no "rights" in league of legends. You probably signed them all away with every single update. But I know what you are trying to say. Im not saying they can't change teams. I'm saying it shouldn't be so easy like it is right now. Click a single button and boom. New team 20 times till a full group. When, in reality. Had you stayed in the first group, you would probably be playing already.

I am not saying what people can or can't do. But all systems reward particular kinds of behavior. This current system rewards selfish behavior. The system could be changed in minor ways to not do that. I bet if people had to back out, pick their champ again, and re-queue they wouldn't do it as much. Even tho it would probably take them less then 20 seconds to do so. Pump up the volume.

Belgoran1 votes

You probably didn't read the whole post or couldn't understand it. I said there are valid reasons to choose a different team. So the majority of your excuses for leaving teams is unnecessary. For those people, changing groups once or twice would have minimal effect. Also, the "if you don't like it play somewhere else" routine is quite dry and is the opposite of progress. Like I mentioned in the post (you probably didn't read). I am not a designer. There is probably a better way to design in a system that rewards the patient and doesn't reward the selfish and impatient.

It also sounds like you are just making excuses for this behavior because you partake in it. Which is fine. I don't play team build to make the perfect team, I play so I can play the position I want without hearing all the QQ and "Mid or I feed" childishness going on in those games.

Also like i said, if you truly want a "perfect" team then you can be the captain and decide the positions, the champs, and even kick ppl for not having all the summoner spells you decree worthy of play. So all your points were addressed in my original post. Thanks for the comment tho. Keep the dream alive.

SmokingPuffin4 votes

But I do know that the current system rewards the selfish and hurts the entire population with longer wait times.

How do you figure? The team the player left waits longer, and the team the player joined waits shorter. Seems pretty zero sum to me.

But the people who jump through 5 and 6 groups looking for full ones should have a penalty of some sort.

People that queue for support in team builder want to get a quick game with a team they want to play with. If you make it hard for them to do that, their response will be to queue in other queues.

That is, fixing your current problem may make your life worse, instead of better.

Belgoran1 votes

Your math works on a very elementary level as if there were no other variables involved. 1-1=0. I'm sure the people who design matchmaking would probably disagree with you tho. There are other variables involved also. Besides the point that harming some peoples experience so that (selfish) others can have a better one doesn't seem ideal. I watch some groups get a jung, then he leaves because no support. Then a support, who leaves because no jung. This can happen 4 - 5 times per group. This also happens WAY more often then is necessary and I just sit there and laugh. It does get tiresome after awhile tho.

Also, people who queue for support don't necessarily just want a "quick" game. Yes, they typically CAN get one under the current system. Everyone I know who plays team builder does it because they don't want to fight over positions and they can play the champs they want. I have never heard anyone tell me that they only play support or jungle in team builder to get quick games. It is just a side effect of the unpopular positions.

I wish more people would focus on the line that says I am not a designer. My hypothetical solution was not meant has a hard fix. Just an example of something that wouldn't hurt the majority of players and start to curb the selfish behavior of the others. It doesn't take much to change behavior. A couple seconds could probably do wonders. If your team is so bad and you just want a different comp, then 4 or 5 seconds BEFORE the queue starts wont hurt. If your an impatient child... that couple seconds might make you tough it out. Or there could be other solutions to avoid the selfish and impatient meta in team builder. Pizza makes you beautiful.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Besides the point that harming some peoples experience so that (selfish) others can have a better one doesn't seem ideal. I watch some groups get a jung, then he leaves because no support. Then a support, who leaves because no jung. This can happen 4 - 5 times per group.

I don't see their action as selfish. Every support will play with exactly one team. Whether it's yours or someone else's doesn't really matter to anyone but you.

Also, people who queue for support don't necessarily just want a "quick" game. Yes, they typically CAN get one under the current system. Everyone I know who plays team builder does it because they don't want to fight over positions and they can play the champs they want.

The upside of "I can play the role and champ I want" is not very interesting for support players. Support players already have little trouble getting the role they want in blind or draft. That's why mid lane players are like "wow team builder!!!" and support players are like "meh team builder".

The thing you get when you play team builder as support is an instant queue and the ability to pick your team's champions.

I watch some groups get a jung, then he leaves because no support. Then a support, who leaves because no jung. This can happen 4 - 5 times per group.

This happens. If you make it more inconvenient for supports to play team builder, it will happen more.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

yeah, pretty much this^

when i support i never wait more than 2 min to get into a game. if you want shorter queue times then play unpopular roles.

GhostButter011 votes

I play a lot of support and agree with most of things said here. 90% of time, I dodge because I see something I don't like. I don't want to play with your all AD team... and I really really hate it when you select "any" for the bottom lanes. That's an automatic dodge for me. If I join your group and I like what I see so far then I stay, but as soon as you let that Thresh jungle join your game, I'm gone.

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