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Hey Riot, about the Champion Balance Framework you told us about...

JerCBow··7 votes·2,540 views

Your new balance framework says that a champ will be nerfed if they experience 90% presence in pro play during a patch cycle, or 80% in consecutive patch cycles, in the top 5 regions. During the most recent week, Yuumi had 100% presence in the LCS, the LEC, the LCK, and the LPL. The two weeks prior to that, she had less play but she still had amazingly high presence, probably enough to cross the 80% in consecutive patches criteria. Similarly, Corki, Sylas, and Sejuani have all had insane pro presence lately, with each having 100% in the LCS during week 8. Why make a /dev blog that specifically talks about nerfing if ANY threshold is broken, and then not nerf when said thresholds are broken? All I ask is that Riot, at the very least, is consistent and honest with us lowly plebeians. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/05/dev-champion-balance-framework/ https://lol.gamepedia.com/LCS/2019_Season/Summer_Season/Pick-Ban_History

Edit: After going to a website mentioned in the discussion, I found more holistic, relevant data. Yuumi has been 80%+ in the top 5 regions since 9.11. Corki is the only other champ besides Yuumi to be sitting at 90% in 9.14, but his presence in 9.13 was low and 9.14 has only been active for a week in pro play. The Karma nerf was needed, but hopefully in 9.16 there is definitely a Yuumi nerf, and possibly a Corki nerf as well. I have faith in you, Riot!! https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S9/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/patch-9.14/role-ALL/league-TOP5/

16 Comments

Darkdemon6537 votes

Riot also just buffed champions that didn't fit their criteria. The criteria don't actually matter, which I agree is very sad.

Ragnaveil5 votes

They are spamming her for how stupidly dumb of a mechanic Attach is. Why pick any other support that could get focused and targeted when you can pick Yuumi and harass, sustain, and easily dodge ganks? Meteos said at one point Yuumi was the collective creation of everything everyone hates when dealing with supports.

Düff McWhalen4 votes

Riot? Inept and Hypocritical? This must be some sort of conspiracy!

Daddy Ants4 votes

Professional Play

This group is the top five recognized leagues of competitive play (currently LPL, LCK, LEC, LCS, and LMS). Somewhat similar to Elite, we determine power level based on this group’s champion select behaviors more so than the results of the games in which they are picked. It’s arguable that just because a champion isn’t picked on a certain patch, that they’re not actually underpowered for this group, but rather that the meta just doesn’t currently allow them to be picked. Despite this reasonable stance, we will consider these champions underpowered in the context of the current meta, and we will balance around the champions’ power level within that meta.

Top End: 90% Presence on the current patch OR 80% presence in consecutive patches.

Bottom End: 5% Presence

**Source -https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S9/split-ALL/tournament-ALL/patch-ALL/role-ALL/league-ALL/ **

Used the drop down box to check data based on each summer split for the mentioned recognized leagues.

 

Presence is both pick and ban rate combined.

Also please take into consideration that Pro play is still on Patch 9.14 so this data is based on Patch 9.14

 

LPL:

Irelia - 97% Presence.
Sejuani - 93% Presence Aatrox - 85% Presence Neeko - 83% Presence Yuumi - 83% Presence

 

LCK:

Sejuani - 93% Presence Yuumi - 91% Presence

 

LEC:

Aatrox - 85% Presence Irelia - 85% Presence.

 

LCS:

Yuumi - 99% Presence Irelia - 91% Presence Sejuani - 91% Presence Aatrox - 91% Presence

 

LMS:

Yuumi - 93% Presence Sejuani - 87% Presence Karma - 85% Presence (Pro play is still on 9.14. Karma was nerfed on 9.15 Aatrox - 82% Presence

 

 

 

If we use this data to determine which champions need Pro play focused nerfs the list would be

Aatrox Irelia Sejuani Yuumi and possibly Neeko

JerCBow2 votes

That's a super useful site. Thanks for it!

PandaNator433 votes

Why make a /dev blog that specifically talks about nerfing if ANY threshold is broken, and then not nerf when said thresholds are broken?

The framework is for identifying which champions need adjustment. It doesn't guarantee they have the changes ready to go for any given patch, as they explain here from the dev blog you linked:

Once we’ve identified champions that are out of balance, we get into the meaty stuff pertaining to how to actually adjust things. For this, there’s no definitive framework.

and also here

Put simply, the framework more easily gets us to the point of agreement on the fact that a champion like Hecarim (for a recent example) is overpowered, and then we get to work on how to fix it.

Is there a particular champ you want buffs/nerfs for that didn't make it into the 9.15 patch?

JerCBow2 votes

Mostly Yuumi. She has had 80%+ presence since patch 9.11 in the top 5 regions. Admittedly, she has received several nerfs, but her presence has hardly changed. For example, in 9.14 she has had 95% presence in the top 5 regions and 84% presence in all regions.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Mostly Yuumi. She has had 80%+ presence since patch 9.11 in the top 5 regions. Admittedly, she has received several nerfs, but her presence has hardly changed. For example, in 9.14 she has had 95% presence in the top 5 regions and 84% presence in all regions.

Well unless you literally make her unable to do anything that is hardly going to change. They lowered her poke and her mana recently. Yes they gave her a better heal because the point is never to "let's completely ruin this champion". Unless they make actual mechanical changes to her (like a time limit to how long she can be attached for example) she is going to be pick and ban in pro for most games.

Malix Farwin2 votes

{quoted}

Well unless you literally make her unable to do anything that is hardly going to change. They lowered her poke and her mana recently. Yes they gave her a better heal because the point is never to "let's completely ruin this champion". Unless they make actual mechanical changes to her (like a time limit to how long she can be attached for example) she is going to be pick and ban in pro for most games.

Well to be honest with you, the reason she is pick or ban is the meta. SO i wouldnt say always but at least until some other better combo pops up or if they do more in depth changes to the support. She reall does what other actual supports used to do and gutting her is just going to make people revert back to mage supports.

I do not have a problem with Yuumi being dominant on the main premise that at least there is a support champion in the LCS now. So instead of trying to create less, lets see more.

JerCBow3 votes

The thing is I think Yuumi will never truly be out of meta, unless she gets gutted. Her attach is just too strong. In a tank meta, she can sit on a support like Sivir or Ezreal and just farm/poke it out. She's also a really strong enchanter, so in an Ardent meta she'd do just fine. I think her guaranteed Q is one of the things that helps her soloqueue performance, but her ability to be untargetable is what makes her so strong in pro play. They made nerfs to how her attack works, but if they took it a step further (like they did with akali shroud) and make it so certain types of damage can still hurt her while she's attached (just throwing a few things out there but maybe dots or aoe, it makes no sense for something like jinx rocket to not damage her ya know) she'd probably be better off. And then they could even buff her numbers a tad (base health etc) and give her a stronger soloqueue presence.

Edit: OR, brilliant idea here, add a CD for when she jumps from one champ to another. Not as long, maybe like 2 seconds. But that could help.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

Well unless you literally make her unable to do anything that is hardly going to change. They lowered her poke and her mana recently. Yes they gave her a better heal because the point is never to "let's completely ruin this champion". Unless they make actual mechanical changes to her (like a time limit to how long she can be attached for example) she is going to be pick and ban in pro for most games.

But they have no hesitations when it comes to ruining Galio.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

But they have no hesitations when it comes to ruining Galio.

"ruining galio" I don't hive a damn about galio and this is not a thread about galio take your galio QQ elsewhere. He is actually in a better spot NOW than he was before you can disagree all you want. I do not care what you think

PandaNator432 votes

She's high priority but low win rate: 47% in Platinum+. Those types of champs usually take a long time to balance, it usually means there's an underlying design problem that needs to be solved, not just number tweaks. (see: Ryze). I have no idea how to fix her.

How would you fix Yuumi?

Hayaishi22 votes

Their criteria is useless. Riot will balance around what they think benefits pro play

Malix Farwin2 votes

You have a stronger chance of them reworking Yuumi than flat out nerfing because her performance in both pro play and soloq are middling.

Done251 votes

Yuumi's sheer safety means that she could do zero damage and pro would still pick her. Because she's reliable. A fed Soraka/Janna/Nami can be killed off by a sneaky Zed. Yuumi can't.

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