If i had my way i'd ban most of you from the game
and it'd make me very happy. This games been out for like 7/8 years 0 reason to be complete trash at it.
and it'd make me very happy. This games been out for like 7/8 years 0 reason to be complete trash at it.
I don't want to tell you this, but if you're being matched with bad players more than good players, the mmr system might see you as a bad player.
I don't want to tell you this, but if you're being matched with bad players more than good players, the mmr system might see you as a bad player.
I mean....
Considering even plat players have this issue and higher...
And considering the mmr system is garbage right now to begin with...
(Edited because I forgot to look at the username)
Please do enlighten me on your appeal to authority (plat players)
Please do enlighten me on your appeal to authority (plat players)
Do I need to?
They say it all the time. Read the forums more.
I'm not here to defend him. I'm here to call you out.
I don't think I'm better than every single person I am matched with. I do believe people have different learning curves. And I believe the MMR system doesn't take that into account when placing new people into Silver Elo for example. Then promoting them when they have dreadfully low team play and/or winrates. I don't have a fix since they don't tell us what measures MMR. But giving a person a free silver MMR is terrible. Especially if they never touched a moba in there life, let alone a videogame.
I mistook the OP for you in the comment, I'll rescing the majority of my comment, was looking at the op, my bad.
Are we talking about ranked or normals first of all?
In normals, I can see a stronger argument about the new people that queue into a silver MMR being a huge problem.
In ranked, You have to have played until level 30, which if I recall is at least 60-80 games. It's not that they haven't touched a videogame/MOBA at that point, it's that they haven't learned how to play League. And often, it's not thier personal fault. I'd put a part of it on smurfs who either hard stomp or hard carry games--making it hard to learn in both cases, and a part of it on the league tutorials, that hit the very basics, but fail to actually get into a lot of the more important stuff (CS, Zoning, Wave control, Shoving, teamfights, jungling, cc, item synergy, etc).
I think we actually can agree on a lot of what the problem is, I don't know if we agree on the solutions
I mistook the OP for you in the comment, I'll rescing the majority of my comment, was looking at the op, my bad.
Are we talking about ranked or normals first of all?
In normals, I can see a stronger argument about the new people that queue into a silver MMR being a huge problem.
In ranked, You have to have played until level 30, which if I recall is at least 60-80 games. It's not that they haven't touched a videogame/MOBA at that point, it's that they haven't learned how to play League. And often, it's not thier personal fault. I'd put a part of it on smurfs who either hard stomp or hard carry games--making it hard to learn in both cases, and a part of it on the league tutorials, that hit the very basics, but fail to actually get into a lot of the more important stuff (CS, Zoning, Wave control, Shoving, teamfights, jungling, cc, item synergy, etc).
I think we actually can agree on a lot of what the problem is, I don't know if we agree on the solutions
I completely forgot about the level 30 thing. I'm more concerned with rank. I don't believe they should spike into silver MMR. Everyone should start from Bronze 5 and work up. Also what I meant by the never touched a moba and videogame... There are literally people who have their first game. Mine, for example, was most likely Warcraft III. For some people, it will be League of Legends.
My belief is there should be a complex system for MMR. It doesn't seem to be that way. It would be extremely complicated to do though. May even take months to years. They kinda realize this: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/04/dev-updates-to-ranked-for-2019/
What I want to see them do though is something more... About that player in that particular game.
Example: A tank absorbing massive amounts of damage but dying shouldn't be punished for dying. A tank with a massive amount of MR, HP, tank passives, tank runes, and Armor but not doing anything with it should. However, it must also take into account the distance of you and your team. It should also examine you trying to go in or going in but your team refusing to go in.
Off-builds like turning Amumu into a bruisery champion should be taken into account. Obviously, this 'Tank' isn't a typical tank anymore. This is why I hate the classification system. Labels mean nothing with Runes and Items dictating your actual role in that particular game. The classification system and labels, however, are obviously needed for a general basis of the champion.
For a simplified example:
:

:

Clearly both
's have different goals in mind.
I completely forgot about the level 30 thing. I'm more concerned with rank. I don't believe they should spike into silver MMR. Everyone should start from Bronze 5 and work up. Also what I meant by the never touched a moba and videogame... There are literally people who have their first game. Mine, for example, was most likely Warcraft III. For some people, it will be League of Legends.
My belief is there should be a complex system for MMR. It doesn't seem to be that way. It would be extremely complicated to do though. May even take months to years. They kinda realize this: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/04/dev-updates-to-ranked-for-2019/
What I want to see them do though is something more... About that player in that particular game.
Example: A tank absorbing massive amounts of damage but dying shouldn't be punished for dying. A tank with a massive amount of MR, HP, tank passives, tank runes, and Armor but not doing anything with it should. However, it must also take into account the distance of you and your team. It should also examine you trying to go in or going in but your team refusing to go in.
Off-builds like turning Amumu into a bruisery champion should be taken into account. Obviously, this 'Tank' isn't a typical tank anymore. This is why I hate the classification system. Labels mean nothing with Runes and Items dictating your actual role in that particular game. The classification system and labels, however, are obviously needed for a general basis of the champion.
For a simplified example:
:
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
:
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Clearly both
's have different goals in mind.
I could get behind the starting at Brone 5 and working up, we agree there. If league is their first videogame ever, Riot should help them along with better resources in game.
Why complicate something? MMR has to be based on objective factors, that don't change from situation to situation, otherwise it means vey little. Blowing up the nexus is the one thing that always is constant and defines a won or lost game.
I'm not a fan of hidden stats, and the system you described would hide a lot of stats from the player. I could get behind a Riot made feedback system that generally analyzes your play and tries to make comments about it, eg. "In lane It's important to get CS so that you'll have more gold to spend" to players that consistently have low cs early game (and aren't playng jg/support).
On the "tanks shouldn't be punished for absorbing damage, engages shouldn't be punished if your team doesn't go in" aspect, What you described is, in essence, rewarding/punishing people based on how riot thinks you should play. Punishing people for not playing how Riot thinks you should play in a dangerous route. I agree that your MMR shouldn't be punished for simply dying, but it's a hard sell to say that Riot can judge each death/decision individually by any means. there's hundreds of decisions that each player has to make each game. to add an extra dimension, unless your MMR and what affects it is visible to you, it all means basically nothing, because you don't know how you're doing.
I believe that people learning through the concepts would make them better at the microdecisions and better in ranked and normal games.
I'd prefer if Riot used the tutorial space to create a whole bunch of skill testing tutorials with a preset champ initially, but later you can choose anyone, perhaps tie some exp/BE to them. a couple examples
-clear the jungle in X minutes using (Champ), given an amount of starting gold (JG) -reach 100 CS in 1X minutes, against a bot (CS) -keep the wave on your side of the lane for X minutes (wave control) -Given a fed lane partner (melee) and (CC Champ), CC the enemy so that your laner can go in and kill them (cc) -Given (starting gold), deal 5,000 to a target dummy in XX seconds (item synergy) -Given a lane with only inner turrets, and a movement restriction (can only move to halfway, destroy an enemy inner tower by slow pushing minions. there'd have to be a speed up button in game for this one maybe tied to using b? idk. (shoving/slowpushing) -Given the enemy bots team is completing dragon/baron, steal it using smite. -Given 50% CDR, against a moving bot, land all 4 (or 3/4) skills in a burst combo once/x times. (think lux/zed) etc.
they don't have to be hard (per se) but they have to be meaningful. Thornmail on Ashe is a great meme, and we should keep that, but we shouldn't stop there.
If the tutorials are good, more people will get the fundamentals, this gives you more people who know how to play te macro decisions and micro decisions (even if it's their first time touching a computer) Additionally, this also could reduce the amount of people who go to intermediate bots to stomp the AI.
Implying everyone started playing 7/8 years ago?