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Veigar Is Now Useless

Apogalacteum·Feb 14, 2015·35 votes·3,706 views

Hello, Riot. Upon testing the new Veigar on the PBE for the first time, I just so happened to go against a mobile mid laner. What are the odds, amirite? During the game, I was repeatedly all-inned by this said champion. Thank god i actually had a reliable skill to counterplay my opponent. Oh, wait. I attempted to defend myself, only to be dead before the walls were raised. Oh well, i can just stun bot lane and nuke them for some kills. Get this: Kog'Maw literally walked out of the borders from the middle of my cage before the walls were raised. KOG'MAW, THE MOST IMMOBILE CHAMPION IN THE GAME, WALKED RIGHT OUT OF MY STUN. He had no boots. How can he be allowed to walk right out of my stun? Welp, i can just DFG, Q and R him. SIKE. DFG was removed, Q is easily dodgeable without the non-existent stun, and R only tickles with a 1.0 AP ratio. The infinitely stacking Q passive should help me though. LOL, going mid to farm would be a death sentence.

Veigar has no damage or utility anymore. He can't lock down the AD carry to burst them before they proceed to two-shot me because they have IE. He can't make it to late game because enemy mid is carrying so hard due to his squishiness and unreliable defense ability.

Veigar isn't even played in competitive. He doesn't have an impressive win percentage. Why would you completely gut his reliability and damage? He was one of the only champions that could stop this mobility obsessed meta. He has nothing to go for him anymore. These changes would leave him in the dark corner of off-meta picks, along with Cassi, Galio, and Urgot.

Veigar is no longer fun to play. I literally cried after my first game as new Veigar. You made a 23-year-old man cry, Riot. Thanks for removing the only fun champion in the game that could stand a chance against the mobility meta. He has no place anymore. Please revert this. If these changes go through, I will have lost all faith in this company and shall take my business elsewhere.

RIP Veigar.

Signed, a concerned PBE tester.

P.S. For a list of Veigar changes made in the latest PBE update: click here.

19 Comments

AnthrozFeb 14, 20156 votes

Now you can understand our frustration as supports ( Nami Thresh ). Predicting an enemy next pattern is not instinctive, and you can sometimes do mistakes.

In the case of veigar, it was a 1.5s INSTANT stun. No others possibilities to retaliate than a item 3140 or a item 3102 . I find this nerf justified, because it gives us an opportunity to retaliate other than force build. And as you must think before placing your E, Veigar is not in the head-rolling category anymore.

OrangesilkFeb 14, 20155 votes

Eh, you're making this sound so tragic, Chogath has had to deal with a 1.5sec delay on his main CC for 5 seasons now, and while most players really suffer the champion the first games around, once you learn the enemy patterns, get used to placing his Q not on the current location of the enemy but on the future location of the enemy, and get the timing when most people will blow their mobility, you can easily land that Q.

Look at JimmyX, the diamond cho'gath mid player, he plays Cho'Gath glass cannon, which logic dictates should be countered hard by mobility, but his awesome placement of that skill makes him a very succesful player.

Oh Hai MarcFeb 14, 20153 votes

Cho naturally builds defense and even gets bonus hp with his feast. If he misses his q, he can still silence assassins in front of him (provided he doesnt miss a cone skill shot) rendering them next to useless. Veigar on the other had, had only 1 form of defense, his stun, and he doenst build nearly as much defense as cho, or he cant do his job to burst others. Veigar will just become lunch to most if not all mid laners with his only form of defense being rendered nest to useless.

ApogalacteumFeb 15, 20157 votes

Keep in mind, we were promised a **buff ** to Veigar to compensate the removal of his biggest core item. No matter how you put it, this is a blatant nerf to any reliability and damage that the previous Veigar was left to cling to.

VelasanFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Eh, you're making this sound so tragic, has had to deal with a 1.5sec delay on his main CC for 5 seasons now, and while most players really suffer the champion the first games around, once you learn the enemy patterns, get used to placing his Q not on the current location of the enemy but on the future location of the enemy, and get the timing when most people will blow their mobility, you can easily land that Q.

Look at JimmyX, the diamond cho'gath mid player, he plays Cho'Gath glass cannon, which logic dictates should be countered hard by mobility, but his awesome placement of that skill makes him a very succesful player.

I'm not arguing with your actual point here, but I just wanted to say that I play cho'gath a fair amount and I'm not sure where you are going with this one. The delay on cho'gaths rupture is not long and the ability itself does damage. What people are arguing against here is that the spell is difficult to land and then when you do your abilities are less reliable. I'm not sure if that is true or not ( I haven't played on the PBE). Just saying that on cho'gath you will miss ruptures, but it's cd isn't too bad and when you do hit it the damage is already dealt. Not to mention it's often followed up by a silence which makes flashes etc not work.

I get what you're saying though. Cho is sort of the melee version of veigar in that his ult is an insta kill when the enemy is low, but he has to be up close.

FirancilFeb 14, 20154 votes

So, from what I get from this you played 1 game with him, immediately got countered, fucked up your stun (I'm sorry, 3/4 of a second is not enough for a kog'maw to escape a well aimed stun) and then came here to whine about it. You can't judge changes BASED ON A SINGLE GAME, you need to practice them over the course of a few games before you can form a proper opinion.

His stun was extremely toxic before, it was easy to aim and hitting it meant the person you wanted to hit was dead, no questions asked, Q > W > R, no DFG required, that extremely reliable 2.5 second stun had to be changed sooner or later so be happy they didn't choose to lower it's duration, instead opting to make it less reliable to add some required counter play.

I've played him multiple times on PBE so far and I love the changes, his Q has more range and can double last hit (which takes awhile to get use to but is easy after that) though the hit box is a little weird right now, dark matter is still a great 1 point wonder because of it's amazing 1. AP ratio and the new ability to double last hit with Q making it's damage go up faster and level his E instead for the amazing stun, takes a few games to get use to the TINY delay, but after that it's pretty much the same stun.

Ya, his ult was nerfed, but lets be fair, Veigar exists to counter immobile mages, a 1. AP scaling ability that also deals damage based off of the enemy's AP is still gonna 1 shot an APC who doesn't buy item 3157 or item 3026 and if you stun an ADC and get a full combo off they're dead too.

This happens too much, champions get kit changes on PBE, everyone starts the "RIP" threads (this happened with Ahri a few weeks ago and we all know how fast those threads were replaced with the "nerf now" threads after that change was released) so people who don't have PBE access need to shut it about changes they can't even test, and people like you need to play more games with the champion before forming an opinion about how bad the change is before actually knowing how to play with the changes. No wonder Riot doesn't like posting here.

WootnooberFeb 14, 20151 votes

I don't have PBE access so I will direct this towards you.

Basically to pull off his combo or "RIP mage" just takes more thought than before? If that is so I can live with that. Seems like it will be used more for zoning in team fights with the slight delay in higher elo. Low elo it will be used as normal. Still think there is wayyyyy too much mobility in the game. All in all, I am just glad they are making an effort.

AudiomancyFeb 14, 20156 votes

No, being able to pull off his full combo relies completely on the enemy being braindead. E particle shows up. You probably have time to get out of it anyway, but let's say you get caught in the middle just as the walls come up. Veigar throws his Q at you. You dodge it because it is now a skillshot. Veigar calls down his W. You dodge it because it takes 1.2 seconds to fall and you're not retarded. Veigar ults you. You survived because its ratio had almost 20% chopped off it.

WootnooberFeb 15, 20153 votes

Hmm...

Idk. I wish I could try it myself. Started playing LoL as Veigar and Morganna. Played him on live a little bit ago and and I can't imagine him without that instant stun. Low elo, people are still gonna get caught. Sad news is they probably will either propose another change or keep it with .75 delay. Rito will not let it be instant again, that much is shown.

ApogalacteumFeb 14, 20159 votes

I've played 4 games with him actually, each time getting "countered" by a mid laner with any mobility at all (which accounts for every single viable mid laner in today's meta). 0.75 seconds is actually a massive delay and any player that isn't brain dead will have time to simply walk out of the perimeter by the time the walls come up. Veigar is even suffering right now because of all the mobile champions. Giving his stun a delay will only allow him to stun immobile champions but with more difficulty. His entire identity as the mage that can 100-0 any squishy carry that is out of place is getting removed. He cant even kill the idiots who decide to wander about without their team. Once again, they will see the ring and just simply walk out, even if it is placed directly on them. Now that his kit is almost completely comprised of skillshots, he can't do the damage that he has worked so laboriously to stack. I enjoy where he is now. Focusing the attention on ruining a perfectly healthy champion is ridiculous and results from idiots like you who think there is no counterplay to Veigar stun. The stun is easy to counter by simply continuing to move or just maintaining good positioning, so as he cannot place his event horizon edges directly on top of you. His Q is a point-and-click so he has ANY reliable harass in lane. Even on live, he gets shoved out of lane by champions that have any decent poke. Mages are supposed to be glass cannons that can 100-0 champions that step out of place. Removing Veigar's ability to be a reliable mage is simply aggravating. Even with his reliability on live, any semi-decent player knows to bait out the stun and take advantage of his vulnerability without his only form of escape/utility. Just because your elo has no idea how to counter such a strong snowballer doesn't mean that he is OP. You low elo players can scream "OP" as much as you'd like, it doesn't give Riot the go-ahead to gut a perfectly healthy mage. It just ruins the experience for the rest of us who like to have fun once in a while.

ConturbatioMar 27, 20153 votes

Veigar item 3070

Mayday66Feb 15, 20152 votes

I won't say hes useless, however he has deffinitly been nerfed hard when we were told this was a buff. His new Q is kinda fun However it will take some time to get used too but he relies heavily on that stun being intstant.

For example imagine your against a enemy Vi Jungle... crazy right? you see her charging the Q as she comes out of the bush to gank... veigar drops E in front of her so she has to redirect the Q. This counter play is no longer even a option cause she can dash completly though the warning circle in that very long .75 seconds.

All this is going to mean is veigar is now VERY weak vs any champ with a dash. This also means that veigar can no longer mid becasue the only champs that are played mid have a dash IE

: Akali Fizz Ahri Katarina Leblanc Yasuo Zed Talon

This stun needs to be left alone or change the delay to maybe less as it skills up ending at .25? But this really shouldnt go live

RaptameiMar 27, 20152 votes

"Counterplay" is apparently more important than balance and the time/money investment of tens of thousands of Veigar mains. :(

juhotuho10May 29, 20162 votes

yeah, i quit playing veigar in the same time, but i have been recently picking him up again after the mini rework, he is really viable now... you can get around 190 stacks in 20 minutes and its kinda easy to get 1300 ap after 40 mins

ApogalacteumMay 31, 20161 votes

Yeah, he is healthier now for sure. I got used to him after they gave him a few buffs. Now the only thing I miss is his ability to flash ult instakill the enemy mage after 40 minutes.

NarasimhaFeb 15, 20151 votes

I think that your credibility is slightly diminished by your hyperbole.

I attempted nearly the exact same situation, trying to land a stun on a bot lane enemy (Nami instead of Kog). And to my genuine surprise, SHE COULDN'T MAKE IT OUT. As long as I didn't throw the stun right on the edges, she was unable to escape even with Tier 1 boots. Well, she could escape if she boosted herself with a spell, but that seems fair enough.

MawpFeb 15, 20151 votes

"Someone used counterplay!

THE HORROR" Urgot

USG FailsawceMay 29, 20161 votes

What are they doing to Veigar? Where can I see the changes?

SasogwaMay 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

What are they doing to Veigar? Where can I see the changes?

No it's someone that just answered to a 1 year old thread. They are talking about 1 year old changes, which actually changed Veigar to garbage but he got buffed multiple times in the meantime.

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