Veigar Changes and Veigar's Identity as a Burst Mage

mwarme··2 votes·826 views

So, as someone who mained veigar pretty hard last season (feel free to look me up, 172-149 record with him in high-silver soloque last season), I have some comments about the changes. I will reserve judgement on the VIABILITY of veigar as a champion until the changes come out, but as a PLAYER of the game who enjoys the PLAYSTYLE IDENTITY of veigar, I am very, VERY concerned by these changes:

Blah blah-mobility creep of the last two years--blah blah. Veigar has always been an immobile mage. That was part of his core identity--no gap closers, no speed boosts, just a ring and some nukes. Veigar sits in a high-risk-high-reward space for AP champions--he's a classic mage that brings a large amount of teamfight damage and late game utility, but with an extreme risk-reward balance--either he lands his CC well (the ring) and provides a huge amount of support to his team, or he doesn't, and he can't help the team at all for a few seconds. Equally, his damage combo provided much the same benefit--a huge amount of "team" damage, mostly lumped onto one target. An assassin without all of the mobility or escape tools of an assassin, if you will.

This play pattern forms the core of veigar's identity--a weak laner with an excellent ability to blow people up late game, if and only if veigar can catch them with his ring. This ring (pre-rework) has counterplay in the form of merc treads, qss, banshees veils, mikaels active, and various spellshields or damage shields. Part of this identity is the stun coupled with lack of mobility and part of it is the targeted nature of his burst--veigar's damage WILL HIT YOU pretty much regardless if he gets to fire. Putting a delay on the stun without some other compensation to ensure his targets are CC'd within the aoe of his potential w hit removes that part of his identity.

Furthermore, and I feel this is integral to veigar's identity--his Q shouldn't BE a harass tool in the early game. If anything, I would prefer to see a split-damage on his q, with zero base damage to champions (or much lower) and a high AP ratio (overall) with a good chunk of pure damage against minions and monsters on the q. Retain the targeted nature. This type of change maintains his early game weakness, perhaps emphasizing it, alongside his identity as the infinitely scalable burst mage.

The changes to veigar's kit may make him a BETTER CHAMPION, but I don't believe they will preserve THE ESSENCE OF THE CHAMPION that we veigar players enjoy. Veigar doesn't need a mobility buff, he doesn't need an increased range but delay on his ring. Veigar needed the long-awaited mana cost reductions, and possibly a reduction on his E duration and an equivalent or near-equivalent reduction on his W delay, to promote counterplay (reduced overall CC) while retaining veigar's identity as an "nuke mage". Spreading out his damage over a q skillshot will reduce that core identity of veigar as the guy that blows people up.

5 Comments

Nucleophilic atk2 votes

I don't think they will make him better. They literally just nerfed every single one of his abilities.

wolfax1 votes

Q now farms more, assuming you use it right. Seems like a pretty good buff to me. And it can be used to harass in lane if you really need to at a longer range.

R got a .2 nerf, but he's also going to be farming more from Q. Overall it's going to be a damage nerf I suspect. He got the cooldown and mana cost lowered to help even it out some more though.

The stun has a .75 second delay. Finally. A chance to, you know, play around it rather than just an instant, potential teamwide AoE. For how strong it was I'm surprised it took this long to give people a small window to dodge. You also get to use it more often, at a longer range, and for less mana.

W got nothing but buffs it seems. Mana cost and cooldown reduction.

killd0zer1 votes

This ring (pre-rework) has counterplay in the form of merc treads, qss, banshees veils, mikaels active, and various spellshields or damage shields.

Yep stopped reading.

mwarme1 votes

{quoted}

Yep stopped reading.

What makes you think veigar had no counterplay? If he was so hard to play against, why wasn't he picked heavily during high-tier play? His ring was strong, and I agree it needs a nerf (coupled with w delay reduction so his identity remains intact) but without an instant stun, how does veigar survive lane at all?

killd0zer1 votes

Because he's numerically weak. He was on the list of "will never be allowed to be top tier" champs, along with Poppy.

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