Is the Bond of Stone change intended to be a Nerf? How Do you justify this if Thunder Lord's exists?

Ñex·Jan 14, 2016·11 votes·1,487 views

Currently, and for the foreseeable future, Bond of Stone is only used on tanky supports. Tanky laners will continue to take grasp because it's extremely strong in lane, and Tanky junglers most likely can't afford to take the extra damage, since they are working with limited gold and are frequently the primary initiators for their team.

If we accept that this mastery is only for tanky supports then this is a straight up nerf, which I don't understand. How can you justify nerfing bond of stone if Thunder Lord's Decree is the "goalpost"

17 Comments

masc dom topJan 14, 20162 votes

Alistar Blitzcrank Leona Nautilus Thresh do very well with 45% CDR and Thunderlord's Decree for stronger laning phase. Sometimes I even take Grasp of Undying for TahmKench Trundle . You don't have to take Bond of Stone for Tank Supports if you think it is too weak. There are enough alternatives.

ÑexJan 14, 20161 votes

That's not really my point. Also I think it's still correct to take Bond of Stone even with the nerfs, Giving your ADC damage reduction is too good. and if you go Thunder Lord's you miss out on tons of free stats from Legendary Guardian, which is huge on tanky supports.

BastionKrossJan 14, 20162 votes

If Thunderlords is the goalpost, and the changes are how far toward that post the ball is moved, then I would fire the kicker since he appears to have kicked the ball in the opposite direction.

It's too weak. 6-8% was something substantial even if it had a (easily fulfilled) condition, 4% is more what I expect from the level just above a keystone. In fact, that's probably what they should have done: put the DR into the slot between swiftness and legendary guardian as a third choice. Or just replace legendary guardian's bonus armor and MR with the straight DR for a buff. Then you have a keystone that just says "X% of damage dealt to friendly champs in a radius is dealt to me instead". Without the DR, you could probably jack up the X to something outrageous like 30-40% and make it attractive as an alternative to TLD.

ÑexJan 14, 20161 votes

I think they scored on their own net...

Maximum MordeJan 14, 20161 votes

To be honest, bond of stone is trash. Strength of the Ages provides more survival than Bond of Stone does for your own character until you have a rediculous amount of hp, like 4700+ under the old system while doubled, and even worse now that it caps out at 4%.

I don't really understand why anyone would have taken bond of stone.

ÑexJan 15, 20161 votes

You don't take bond of stone for yourself. On tanky supports you take it for your team, giving you ADC percent damage reduction is incredibly strong. Strength of Ages on the other hand doesn't really get used by anyone...

Maximum MordeJan 15, 20161 votes

Its really not that much. Its like giving them an extra 127 hit points at level 18(assuming roughly 2k hit point ADC). Less the lower level you go. Its really not that strong at all.

ÑexJan 15, 20161 votes

You're ignoring their increased effective hp from shields and life steal. Also It doesn't only apply to the ADC it applies to whichever champion you are closest too, at any moment, for the entire game.

And for the record almost every single Alistair, Thresh, Trundle, and Braum Support ran Bond of Stone during the first 3 days of LCK. Not one person ran Strength of Ages.

Maximum MordeJan 15, 20161 votes

I'm ignoring it because it's just not mathematically significant. It's value through shields/life steal is literally worth less than a minion's auto attack. Yes technically it is there, but its just not meaningful. Just like when they nerfed Zed's auto attack speed lol.

ÑexJan 15, 20161 votes

I guess you've never seen a 4 Item ADC literally lifesteal to full in the middle of a teamfight. You also seem to be unaware of the shields from Locket and Face of the Mountain, two of the most popular Items on the champions I'm talking about, which add up to between 400-700 points of extra effective HP if your ADC is being focused. What about laners like lulu?

You also ignored the other half of my previous comment, and I'm not sure what you're trying to prove anymore, so good luck with your shitty mastery!

Maximum MordeJan 16, 20161 votes

I have! But the brokenness of lifesteal has nothing to do with bond of stone, and 6% less incoming damage doesn't make much difference. On a shield, bond of stone makes roughly a 30 point difference in shield strength, which is just about meaningless mid-late game at the point where you would have shields strong enough to even make it worth that much.

Also, I don't use that mastery either, Resolve tree sucks. If you can't use Grasp of the Undying, you are almost universally better off going down a different tree except in very edge cases.

ÑexJan 16, 20161 votes

Clearly I, and every pro support player in Korea, disagree with you.

Maximum MordeJan 16, 20161 votes

That's fine. What people play with and what math says are the best aren't always the same because people play a certain style. Math can't account for play style.

ÑexJan 16, 20161 votes

http://cdn.athoughtfullife.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/children-who-are-wrong.jpg

Z StatisticJan 16, 20161 votes

Mostly for the babysitting in lane. It's good on someone like Leona, but you have to think of a botlane comp as a unit and not two separate champions. Bond of Stone is really good on tanky supports that can regenerate health or have a hefty self shield. Taric comes to mind as does Naut. Splitting damage like that means that both champions' regen must be taken into account when trading, even if you only hit one of them.