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Why is there no shield-countering item?

onkodix··5 votes·1,669 views

Hi,

i was wondering, why there is no item for countering shields? There are various talents, items and spells against life regnerating mechanics, but not against shields. With talents like Courage of the Colossus and more champions having shield build into their kit (Tahm Kench, Camille, Ivern), i thought it would be cool to have a niche item to fill that spot.

I was thinking about an active, that would go something like: "Active - Removes a (magic) shield or spell shield of an opponent champion (capped at max 400), Cooldown 90s." With such an active, it should be more of a passive/tank like item, so it wont be abused by assassins. Therefore it should only have stats like armor, magic resistance, life or maybe CDR.

Looking at the items that are already ingame, but barely used, i thought Ohmwrecker would be the perfect item to receive such an additional active (with an shared cooldown of the other active ofc).

What are your thoughts? Do you think there is need of a shield-countering item? Or would such an item nerf some champions too hard?

25 Comments

Silly Neeko5 votes

Reason shields do not have a counter...... They are temporary.

Healing is permanent unless hit, banshees takes one spell and its out for until your out of conbat for x length of time, sivir's E doesnt come out unless she is about to be hit by a spell or thinks shes going to be. Malph is like the banshees just shorter.... Yasuo even needs to walk around for his flow. Abilities need mana and have cooldowns.

DarkRitual1 votes

There could be an ability where a % of damage on it ignores shields. Scaling from 10% to 25% at max rank sounds initially fair, if gated by a fairly longer cooldown.

Z Statistic2 votes

Nah, because it leads to some odd scenarios where you die despite having a shield remaining.

It would be better to have an item that has low stat efficiency but increases damage dealt to shield by a decent amount. However, games in which those effects are prevalent are long term shields or permanent.

Silly Neeko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GXWqqvZf,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-12-05T17:25:09.737+0000)

Nah, because it leads to some odd scenarios where you die despite having a shield remaining.

It would be better to have an item that has low stat efficiency but increases damage dealt to shield by a decent amount. However, games in which those effects are prevalent are long term shields or permanent.

I feel bad for mordekaisers that would have to deal with that.

Z Statistic1 votes

Morde would probably have to have a pass to balance him or an exception built into the mechanic. Still preferable than simply ignoring his fundamental resource though.

Silly Neeko1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Z Statistic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GXWqqvZf,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-05T18:08:37.085+0000)

Morde would probably have to have a pass to balance him or an exception built into the mechanic. Still preferable than simply ignoring his fundamental resource though.

True, but only a slight hit wouldnt affect him much, like the snowball.... It might be fun to have snowballs in SR lol

Z Statistic2 votes

Too hectic. Now, making it into an expensive, stat/slot inefficient item for tanks for Rift would be interesting.

DarkRitual1 votes

Not normal/ranked, but perhaps some of the RGMQ would be fun. OFA or URF with snowballs would be pretty insane sometimes.

Ralanr2 votes

Probably because champions with shields are usually balanced with their shields in mind.

CoTC and all the new support shield items do make these shields pretty damn annoying though, but having an item that just cancels shields isn't the way to go (that's why we had a damn stealth rework, because so many champions were countered by an item).

Honestly I feel it'd be easier to balance shields on items and masteries if you changed how they scales in some way.

onkodix1 votes

Well i dont meant to completly erase any shield, just those which are a "one-time use" like Banshees, Sivir's E, etc. Shields that are higher and scale with AP/AD/Health should only be reduced. Thats why i had a cap in mind (400, as written in my original post, but maybe this is too high, dont know...), so champions like Tahm Kench are not completly busted.

Ralanr2 votes

Banshee and Sivir's E are literally countered by tossing any spell at them (or waiting out her shield). If you had an item that just flat out disabled banshee's then you remove any reason to actually buy that item for the enemy team.

Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

And your reduce scaling part is incredibly unfair. The shields are supposed to block a certain amount of damage and the scalings on them are to make them stronger. It's to encourage those champions to build those stats so they make their ability more powerful. Now suddenly their defensive power is cut when they most needed it because someone pressed a button? You'd have to rebalance a bunch of champions over an item that it itself would be a problem, then when the item eventually gets removed or reworked, we get a bunch of champions who are either too weak or too strong because they had to be rebalanced over the thought that their opponent would buy this new anti shield item.

This is not something an item would fix. An item would only cause more problems.

Sckullzz1 votes

{quoted}

Banshee and Sivir's E are literally countered by tossing any spell at them (or waiting out her shield). If you had an item that just flat out disabled banshee's then you remove any reason to actually buy that item for the enemy team.

Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

And your reduce scaling part is incredibly unfair. The shields are supposed to block a certain amount of damage and the scalings on them are to make them stronger. It's to encourage those champions to build those stats so they make their ability more powerful. Now suddenly their defensive power is cut when they most needed it because someone pressed a button? You'd have to rebalance a bunch of champions over an item that it itself would be a problem, then when the item eventually gets removed or reworked, we get a bunch of champions who are either too weak or too strong because they had to be rebalanced over the thought that their opponent would buy this new anti shield item.

This is not something an item would fix. An item would only cause more problems.

Shield isn't countered, the shield counters the ability... I wouldn't consider using an ability on Nocturn as countering him because it gives him an attack speed buff. I think what Onkodix is trying to say is an active that breaks the shield, but doesn't give the beneficial affect like health regen on Banshee's, mana back on Sivir, or attack speed on Nocturn.

Ralanr2 votes

Which ruins the entire point of those single ability absorption shields.

Why would you buy banshees over Visage when your opponent has an item that can pop it without wasting an ability? I'm pretty sure damage active items already pop it because it's a one and done shield.

Sckullzz2 votes

{quoted}

Which ruins the entire point of those single ability absorption shields.

Why would you buy banshees over Visage when your opponent has an item that can pop it without wasting an ability? I'm pretty sure damage active items already pop it because it's a one and done shield.

I haven't tired that, but if that's the case, then there is the answer to countering shields I guess. Or there's also just waiting it out until the shield is down too.

AthenasVendetta1 votes

Its called.... a Silence. You cannot active shields and or items within or under the effect of one. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Irelia Bot3 votes

League does not have anything like Orchid Malevolence/Bloodthorn

Most champs do not have a silence build into their kit.

AthenasVendetta2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GXWqqvZf,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-05T15:19:36.203+0000)

League does not have anything like Orchid Malevolence/Bloodthorn

Most champs do not have a silence build into their kit.

The courage of the colossus is an exception to the shield rule partly because it provides early survival for a half-assed engage that can negate punishments and stacks with other things such as Vi's Barrier, Steraks, etc. It in itself is somewhat a broken mastery. However shield themselves are not. And should not be removed. Why? Because you have things that have percent health damage, true damage, and delays to the shields such as silences and knock ups.

Lets say you add that ability to the item item 3056

Lets just review people that have basic shields and part of their kit/identity shall we? Blitzcrank Diana Ivern Janna JarvanIV Karma Lulu Lux Malphite Mordekaiser Morgana Nautilus Orianna Riven Rumble Ryze Shen Sion Skarner Sona TahmKench Thresh Udyr Urgot Vi Taric

You are nearly sitting at one-quarter of the entire game population.

Sure shields are annoying... But did you really notice them that much before the Mastery of Courage of the Colossus? No. So what is the problem? And Riot knows it too.

fisox1 votes

Made a same post yesterday

CharbertoLamonzo1 votes

They're also nerfing courage

Shuyin1781 votes

item 3153 item 3742 item 3146 item 3030 item 3152 item 3107 item 3075 item 3091 item 3068 item 1413

Pretty much any item that deals damage counters shields because it's less for your spells and basic attacks to get through.

Atreus Jones1 votes

Other than redemption, which does an aoe true damage Leona ult

Iwinatlife421 votes

NOOOO My shield build taric cries in terror at a hard counter item unless it is suuuuper niche. Like more painful then buying item 3123 levels of niche

Eedat1 votes

Because shields are a temporary, active element for the most part. Healing is permanent. It doesn't wear off which is why heals are much stronger than shields

onkodix1 votes

Well, since my approach don't seem to be well received, i like to link to another thread that popped up and had an different approach i really liked: [(http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/aRIc040k-let-ohmwreckers-active-debuff-champions-to-ignore-their-shields)]

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

hmm damage counters shields... just out damage the shield

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