DO NOT BUFF YASUO!

Swagtori Komeiji·Dec 8, 2017·218 votes·6,629 views

Don't give people more reasons to play this abomination...!

No I don't talk about the Q buff, I talk about DOUBLING his MR/Level. Not like AP Champs have it hard enough vs Yas already noooo...

185 Comments

Fisher No ChainsDec 8, 201732 votes

I'm fine with every buff that isn't more MR. He's already cancerous to play against as a mage, he doesn't need even more ways to survive AP burst.

Also, imho, champions like Yasuo and Kalista should not be allowed to be good. They deserve the Azir treatment: gutted until reworked into something that is not either broken and obnoxious or useless as fuck.

YiffMeImAFurryDec 8, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GKVEjAPi,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-08T16:08:26.485+0000)

I'm fine with every buff that isn't more MR. He's already cancerous to play against as a mage, he doesn't need even more ways to survive AP burst.

Also, imho, champions like Yasuo and Kalista should not be allowed to be good. They deserve the Azir treatment: gutted until reworked into something that is not either broken and obnoxious or useless as fuck.

Yasuo has a hard time against a couple of mages, and especially assassins right now. Ahri, Orianna, Azir, Zed, Ziggs, Zoe (kinda)Fizz, leblanc, a good heimer player, morgana...also some other champions like gangplank, wukong, or soraka, annoyingly enough...

In top lane he fares about the same, some champs give him a real hard time, fiora, garen, kennen...

Fisher No ChainsDec 8, 201724 votes

I think that if a Yasuo hard loses to Ahri, Ziggs, Zoe and maybe Orianna too needs just to get good at Yasuo. He's cancer to play against for like half of the champs you listed, skilled or not.

MimrDec 8, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fisher No Chains,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GKVEjAPi,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-12-08T17:02:41.061+0000)

I think that if a Yasuo hard loses to Ahri, Ziggs, Zoe and maybe Orianna too needs just to get good at Yasuo. He's cancer to play against for like half of the champs you listed, skilled or not.

Ziggs? Sure, you can block one bomb, but 2 seconds later he throws the next. If you toss all of your abilities at a Yas before you've baited/ forced his wall you deserve to get punished for it. If the Ziggs knows what he's doing he's definitely got an advantage in that matchup.

abca98Dec 8, 20173 votes

Yasuo walls one of the abilities, then dashes to dodge the next an then just tanks the next one thanks to his shield. Meanwhile, Ziggs is running oom.

YumaS2AstralDec 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo walls one of the abilities, then dashes to dodge the next an then just tanks the next one thanks to his shield. Meanwhile, Ziggs is running oom.

Yes, and he doesn't need to windwall Q, it would actually be a waste to use windall on Q, just dodge it (which is made easy by the fact that Yasuo is one of the easiest champions to dodge things with) and save the windwall for W and E

NineTailedMysticDec 9, 20171 votes

you can windwall ziggs' ground targeted e and w? wot

ThilmerDec 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

you can windwall ziggs' ground targeted e and w? wot

Yasuo can windwall ALL Ziggs skills.

KnalxzDec 9, 20174 votes

To be fair, just because a champion is annoying doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't be buffed.

Lil Homie bustaDec 8, 201710 votes

His base MR is 30, and he gains 0.5 MR every level. At level 6, he has 33 MR. (on the live server)

Sorc boots gives 18 MPen. Sudden impact gives 8 MPen. Now imagine his 33 MR vs an mage or AP assassin with 18~26 MPen... They almost ignore any damage reduction.

What people can't see is that he's one of the most fragile melee champions in the game in the early-mid game. The only thing that made him viable before preseason was his high damage output with FoB and the old MR/HPperLV/Armor runes (he only got armor compensation), but now that he only has PTA, things got really grim to him, hence his extremely low winrate. He's one of the weakest champions in the game right now:

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/pt/champions/stats/all/by-winrate

http://br.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Now i get it. People don't like to play against him, his windwall is toxic. But this doesn't mean that he needs to stay gutted. Meanwhile, Yorick rules all horizons of the game for months.

BjørnetjenestenDec 8, 20178 votes

Most mages never get sudden impact, WTF. His damage output and skirmishing is insane in the lategame so its pretty fair he is squishy early. If he needs mr he can rush hexdrinker, boots, nullifying orb so on...i dont get this buff at all.. Why is it okay for him to be strong early, mid and late?? but as soon as some mage or adc is strong like this its nerf time...

Where is the armor compensation buff for the rest of the pool, when zed or talon can build 2 items and deal true damage.

Lil Homie bustaDec 8, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GKVEjAPi,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2017-12-08T17:19:44.521+0000) Sorc boots gives 18 MPen. Sudden impact gives 8 MPen. Now imagine his 33 MR vs an mage OR AP ASSASSIN with 18~26 MPen... They almost ignore any damage reduction.

Yasuo's power relies on IE+Zeal item combo power spike. If he rushes anything else, he will be sacrificing a huge amount of power by delaying it. So, even if he rushes hexdrinker or MR (which he'll need to atleast survive poke), he would still be in disadvantage (different from a Zed or Talon that rushes hexdrinker).

Plus, late game is a phase in extinction. He's a paper champion on the early and mid game, and he hardly will be able to reach late game in the current meta. His only hope is the mid game, which is what Riot has in mind, hence why they're buffing his mid game.

BjørnetjenestenDec 8, 20173 votes

Same thing goes for most midlaners, everyone has an optimal power spike but if enemies are strong they are forced to build defense. Most mages vs ad assassins are forced to get seekers armguard first item, even though it means no mana. no cdr and very little damage. Why the fuck is he getting special treatment???

Lil Homie bustaDec 8, 20175 votes

Difference here is that most of his power lies on mid and late game. Mages, assassins and divers like wukong have a more balanced power around all moments of the match (with some exceptions). If he sacrifices a 2 item power spike, he'll be sacrificing almost all his power, which is the reason why you would pick him in the first place (his unique power spike).

Meanwhile, most of mages, assassins and divers can delay their 2 items a little but still be able to be strong from early to mid, with the only downside being falling in the late game in comparison to Yasuo's strong late game (in some cases, like pantheon), a phase which just like i said, is in extinction.

NemeBroDec 8, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Most mages never get sudden impact, WTF. His damage output and skirmishing is insane in the lategame so its pretty fair he is squishy early. If he needs mr he can rush hexdrinker, boots, nullifying orb so on...i dont get this buff at all.. Why is it okay for him to be strong early, mid and late?? but as soon as some mage or adc is strong like this its nerf time...

Where is the armor compensation buff for the rest of the pool, when zed or talon can build 2 items and deal true damage.

This might be a little hard for you to understand, but Yasuo is doing very poorly right now, so that's why he's being buffed and champions who aren't doing as poorly aren't.

SkorchDec 8, 20172 votes

"Meanwhile, Yorick rules all horizons of the game for months." Hold up... what.

Lil Homie bustaDec 8, 20172 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/pt/champions/stats/yorick/all

54~55% winrate, even after two nerfs. He had i high winrate before preseason as well.

Have you ever tried to face a Yorick on the enemy team, ignoring your position/lane? Unless your team is very well organized, he's hardly stoppable.

SKRRRRRRATDec 8, 201728 votes

yasuo is shit right now so any buffs are welcome

Swagtori KomeijiDec 8, 201736 votes

Then you are doing something terribly wrong.

SaljookiDec 8, 201733 votes

Yasuo is pretty bad atm mainly because the state of the game is so terrible. Yasuo does not do well against tanks in the first place, and now tanks are the most broken class in the game. He cant 1v1 adcs like Vayne. He dies to most assassins in mid, etc. He thrives against mages as he always does, but that is about it. And many mages pose a difficult lane like Orianna, Ziggs, Taliyah, etc.

His early game has already been weakened with the introduction of new runes, so he shines even more in late and mid game, but his 1v1 capabilities have been really weak lately. He will be a fine champion when the new runes have been relatively balanced out.

The buffs make early game a little less torturous for Yasuo, and give him some mid game edge in 1v1s.

BjørnetjenestenDec 8, 201716 votes

He thrives against mages as he always does, but that is about it.

Why fuck over mages then?? Why buff mr, instead his armor??? He cant just take mr runes or nullifying orb and rush hexdrinker + boots?

BlåbæretDec 8, 20177 votes

{quoted}

and now ADCs are the most broken class in the game (like since forever).

Fixed that for ya buddy.

ThefrostyvikingDec 8, 20172 votes

Riot have been intentionally balancing marksmen and tanks to be about equally important though,,,,,,

Like if one team has a solid tank and reaches lategame while other team doesn't then it's pretty much GG if both sides are equal in skill.

Tank less side will just get CC'ed down and die ages before tank side starts dropping into bad health.

DeusVultDec 8, 20173 votes

The only broken tanks are Mao, Orrn and shen. And they are broken because of how much damage they deal while being tanks, not because of CC or how tanky they are.

And tankless sides are pretty much meant to lose teamfights, especially teams that dont pack a lot of CC. If one side has a tank with CC and a strong ADC, they will roll teamfights against a "solo queue" team made up of adcs and assassins. That is just how the game works. Sorry to disappoint.

MohawkBirdDec 8, 201715 votes

[deleted]

TitanAnteusDec 8, 201711 votes

I completely disagree. The least fun kit in the game to play against is Pantheon.

abca98Dec 8, 20178 votes

Dunno man, both have tilting laning phases but one transforms into a hypermobile carry with a ridiculous amount of utility & plenty of teamfight combos while the other becomes a stun bot.

MorganFreemanBotDec 8, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Whether he is shit or not doesn't address the fact that his kit is literally the most toxic kit to play against in this game.

Yasuo's kit is not toxic in the slightest.

Can it be frustrating? Absolutely. He's slippery as hell in a minion wave, and therefor hard to land skill shots on, and absolutely no one likes having their ulti / a super important spell removed by wind wall.

That, however, does not make him toxic. Not at all.

Toxic kits are ones which remove the ability for laners (or champs in general) to interact and react.

Pantheon has a toxic kit, because the only counter play he offers is "don't get within Q range". If you're within range, you take damage you cannot avoid; if you try to fight back, he auto wins the trade and probably kills them.

Heimer has a toxic kit towards melee champions. If he goes turrets level 1, you absolutely cannot harm him if he plays conservatively. He can zone you off of your own farm under tower, shove harder than you, deal free damage, and hide in his nest to turn ganks into double kills. There's no way to outplay him, there's no way to play with him.

Malz has a toxic kit. He fires-and-forget pushes, and R's you to death / to prevent absolutely any all-in; his former counter, CC, is countered by his passive.

Teemo has a toxic kit. Similar to Heimer, Teemo gives melee champs the options of "Feed me or don't play". He's not as bad as heimer, and a couple of melee champs can cheese him if he's too aggro.

Jayce has a toxic kit. Again, a champion who removes the agency and ability for melee champs to play the game.

Yasuo does not remove anyone's ability to play the game. He has tools which give him windows of strength / safety, but you can still outperform and outplay him with intelligence and awareness. There's nothing wrong with having moments of "bullshit" due to abilities - Soraka's silence zone is bullshit, Darius rampaging through a team with 5 stacks and a resetting ulti is bullshit, being unable to escape a gank from Rammus barreling down river is bullshit, and having Zac kidnap your carries so the enemy can murder them is bullshit. Most champions have super frustrating mechanics, which offer them moments of extreme strength / unfairness. What makes this balance is the rest of their kit, and the fact that these are MOMENTS of extreme strength, rather than permanence.

As a summary: Heimer is toxic against a melee because his turrets never expire and can be easily replaced when killed. Yasuo is frustrating, but not toxic, against a ranged because windwall - despite its frustration - has a lengthy cooldown, doesn't move, and only lasts 4 seconds.

SSShutTheDuckUpDec 8, 20179 votes

Not toxic to play against? Then explain how he has been in top 5 (more often top3) most banned champion in the game pretty much since release regardless of winrate, state of the game and viability

MorganFreemanBotDec 8, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Awesomeasf ck,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GKVEjAPi,comment-id=0000000200010000,timestamp=2017-12-08T20:02:01.420+0000)

Not toxic to play against? Then explain how he has been in top 5 (more often top3) most banned champion in the game pretty much since release regardless of winrate, state of the game and viability

Darius is one of the most banned champs in the game, and has been for over a year. He's also been pretty lacking in plat +, and a literal troll pick once you get into mid diamond, for that duration.

People ban based on past experiences, what counters what they play, and in most cases what they've been frustrated by and don't want to learn to play against. Yasuo is not toxic, and he hasn't been extremely strong in a long time; however he has a very obvious 'frustration' button in his kit, which makes people ban him on principle alone.

BarkleyDec 8, 20173 votes

The only people who don't think Yasuo's kit is cancer are people who spam him relentlessly and don't want their champion touched. Anyone who doesn't play Yasuo hates him.

MorganFreemanBotDec 8, 20179 votes

{quoted}

The only people who don't think Yasuo's kit is cancer are people who spam him relentlessly and don't want their champion touched. Anyone who doesn't play Yasuo hates him.

No.

Only people who aren't very good at the game, and aren't interested in improving, hate him.

Yasuo can be frustrating, absolutely. That said I do not hate him, and I sure as shit don't play him (less than 10 games since s4). As a jungle main since s2, I'm always delighted to see Yasuo on either side. A competent Yasuo is pretty good at assisting and enabling ganks; like wise, Yasuo tends to be an extraordinarily easy gank if you have a clue what you're doing.

I've been dabbling in mid more lately, but I still love seeing Yasuo. Shitting on him is easy beyond belief, and at worst I've found him to be annoyingly difficult to kill baring a hardcore jungler camp.

Again, Yasuo can absolutely be frustrating to play against. However his power operates in windows and once you know them, they're easy to take advantage of. This makes him about as far from toxic as he can get; he actively encourages a laner to engage with him, and their lane, to win.

Lord Phazanor Dec 8, 201717 votes

I don't care if he's OP or not since I ban him everytime, always. Not only because I hate facing him, but also because I hate when my teammates pick him. So yea, overbuff him, nerf him to oblivion, whatever. I won't see him until he's fully reworked.

TitanAnteusDec 8, 20175 votes

There's tons of champions like that though. Rengar, Khazix, Kindred, Zed, Talon, Katarina... basially any melee champion without CC or utility.

Why the hate on Yas?

CaveslothDec 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I don't care if he's OP or not since I ban him everytime, always. Not only because I hate facing him, but also because I hate when my teammates pick him. So yea, overbuff him, nerf him to oblivion, whatever. I won't see him until he's fully reworked.

Someone once told me banning Yas is like wearing your seatbelt, you do it not because you are concerned about your driving skills, but that of others.

dominusxDec 8, 201716 votes

Yasuo is a troll pick unless he counters the enemy. And if he doesnt counter you his only hope is a PTA cheese.

Fisher No ChainsDec 8, 20179 votes

That's why he needs more than straight number changes. He needs a small update or even a full GU one day, simply because he's not allowed to be really good considering how overloaded and toxic his kit is.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 8, 20174 votes

His kit isnt overloaded. U can't say this now.

Tzuyu Is My BiasDec 8, 20177 votes

Yeah I can. He has 2 passives, one of them being defensive and one offensive, one ability being an extra damn auto attack with multiple functionalities, he has another defensive on another skill and one the games highest mobility. One knockup with Ult extending it. And armor pen in ult for the sake of lolz

Mita3003Dec 9, 20171 votes

When you say it like that of course it seems broken lets see ekko He has a dash a slow a stun a ult that is a free get out of jail free card a massive shield late game.or cammile she has a 2 auto resets with one that can be a true damage proc high mobility a stun a shiled that scales with her hp lane sustain and a ult that you cant escape and when you are in the ult zone she does magic damage to you. See everything is broken when you say it like that but nobody is talking about these champs beacuse you didnt get shit on enough when playing agaist them.

Tzuyu Is My BiasDec 9, 20172 votes

Ekko is the definition of overloaded.

Mita3003Dec 10, 20173 votes

And still nobody whines about ekko or camille only yasuo

GrReaper96Dec 8, 201713 votes

You all know what this means right? Yasuo skin incoming!

LauchmelderDec 8, 20175 votes

{quoted}

You all know what this means right?

80% banrate incoming!

Yasuo skin incoming!

Oh, you meant that one..

notice me Sin piDec 8, 201712 votes

i rather prefer to see him volibear'd out of existence

Imperial JapanDec 8, 20177 votes

Yasuo sucks dick rn, I think it's a fair buff

ChuShoeDec 8, 20176 votes

TFW someone doesn't agree that yasuo is broken trash 100% needs to be retired from this game REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/934/550/6cf.png

Imperial JapanDec 8, 20174 votes

): But honestly, even though I don't play Yasuo anymore (S5 main :^) ) I can tell that he's pretty garbo rn

Solidair3Dec 8, 20175 votes

Even I, a Known Yasuo Hater, can see that he's been suffering in mid lane and he clearly needs SOMETHING.

My concern is a return of tank builds with a buff to his Q's base damage. Yasuo should always have to build glass cannon to get anything done.

Masala ChaiDec 8, 20175 votes

From a perspective point of view, there should be certain conditions that a champion should receive straight buffs.

1. Is the champion weak? In Yasuo's case, most definitely, Yasuo is garbage outside of Bronze and Low Silver.

2. Will the champion be problematic in pro play, if it's balanced in solo Q? Yasuo in pro is only good if his jungler plays around topside, and if he has a winning lane. In contrast to other champions who have undeniable strengths in proplay and have proven themselves to be not be balanceable due to something as simple as meta shifts shifting their viability (see Kalista and Ryze)

3. Does the champion have particular problems that don't allow it to be strong in an elo? Take Master Yi or old Katarina, if they were allowed to be viable at the top, then they would stomp Bronze and Silver. Flip the side for champions like Azir or Kalista, if they're balanced in low elo, they are flat out oppressive in high elo. Even for other certain champs that aren't particularly high skill floor or cap on a champ to champ basis, like Karma or Vayne. Vayne being viable in high elo is because she is strong with a high skill cap, but then flip the inverse, and the accessibility of Vayne to stomp for low elo increases. Karma being balanced in low elo makes her oppressive in high elo, despite her low skill ceiling, teams are better coordinated and Mantra E can instantly warp a teamfight.

4. Does the buff in question remove a necessary weakness? It's a number sort of change. Not a mechanical change that obliterates his weaknesses. Makes him a little more consistent, but preserves the inconsistency and increases the margin of error. In Yasuo's case, he's deceptively strong at level 1 and 2. Level 3 and on is where he's more dependent on exp and item advantages. I think that would solve the vast majority of low elo's problems when dealing with him in lane (most Yasuos from experience play terribly from behind).

As a 2k game silver veteran, I know the feeling of how Yasuo FEELS uncomfortable to lane against, I KNOW that Yasuo isn't fun, especially if you don't knwot he general idea of how to play against him. It's when you embrace that a champion has specifically engineered weaknesses that counteract their oppressive aspects, that's when you'll have removed one of the many barriers that hold people down to low elo.