Riot it's 2016 why am i getting demoted when we have an afk player still?

II Classiic II·Feb 16, 2016·129 votes·9,525 views

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106 Comments

Neo CyrusFeb 16, 201619 votes

Try having half your placements be 4v5 or 3v5 and having the one Loss Forgiven you get count as a loss anyway because you know, placements aren't important or anything. Getting placed Silver from Platinum then having to beat teams of former Plats to get to Gold, simply brilliant. Almost as fun as it was having to beat high Plats/low Diamonds to get promoted to Plat 5. Gotta love the ranked system and the way it hides MMR to ease angsty whiners.

iChoseBulbasaurFeb 16, 20166 votes

I really do think if somoene on your team is afk for a longer period it shouldnt count as a match ... losing LP when its 4vs5 since min 1 is not fun ...

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20166 votes

I brought this up back in S1/S2/S3 when we had the elo system and early ladder rework. Not sure if the thread still exists on the old boards, but I believe a Red brought up the point that it would cause inflation (which is already an issue in our current system) and be prone to abuse. I still agree, however, that there should be some sort of pardon for games with AFK's.

Inflation causes a significant number of players to rank higher than they should, given their MMR, and also relative to S1/S2. You can search ranked inflation up on Google, and it will give you a graph illustrating the shifted bell curve. Inflation is just overall bad.

The abuse is probably Riot's bigger concern. This is where a teammate, especially with this new premade ranked system, can take one for the team and go AFK when a loss is imminent.

Of course, I had an amazing proposal that Riot never ended up reading, because Riot.

Pardon all teammates of the loss, collect the team's potential loss of LP and dump it on the AFK. Not only will this consistently knock chronic AFK's down to a point where they can't ruin any games above Bronze V, but it would also solve inflation.

TL;DR This has been brought up before, Riot brought up excuses and ignored the perfect solution, detailed above.

II Classiic IIFeb 16, 20162 votes

this is brilliant and is exactly what should be done...however like you said riot so ya.

GmssnoFeb 16, 20164 votes

except for the part where someone who rarely AFK's has something insane happen to him where he does I am talking of course of the people who afk 1 our of say 500 games like myself where the only thing that would stop me from playing is either A a real important life matter or B internet/power goes out. I made a proposal where the AFK would have to be gone for 90% of the match for it to count as loss prevented so if it was a 20 minute game they person would have to had been AFK for 18 minutes out of that 20 so for even a 60 minute game that means someone would have to be AFK for 54 minutes. The way to abuse this would be hard seeing as though even in a 60 minute game someone would have to AFK before the 6 minute mark. Now what could be abused is 4 pro players playing on a team and having someone afk right at the beginning to prevent them from losing LP so to do this best I would say even if you lost with an AFK game if you had 0-5 LP the game would not count and you cannot be demoted. If you have 5+ lp you would lose 3 LP if you had 25+ you could still lose 5 LP. Ultimately I think the best would be to say the winning team would get a max of say 5 LP so it would not be worth to abuse. Ultimately this is a very complicated way to fix it, but it is a start and I think someone with more time than me can come up with a way to make this even better.

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20161 votes

Upvoted this comment. You have a legitimate point, however, it comes back to the fact that if you are leaving games consistently for any reason, you should not be playing League let alone ranked.

Losing 50 or so LP once every 500 games is nothing. If you have a 50% win rate, at the rate of 10LP a game, it means you have a gain of 2500 and a loss of 2500 every 500 games. If one of those games was a leave, it would leave you at 2500 gain and 2540 loss, a 1.6% margin which is ridiculously small.

Ultimately though, the point of the system is pardon games for genuine AFK victims. The issue with your solution is as I've stated, inflation. It does help with anti-abuse although it's not abuse-proof either.

EDIT: Inflation would be caused by the fact that there is a net gain of LP in games with AFK's. Normally the losing team will lose x LP and the winning team will win roughly x LP, which maintains a net equilibrium. Essentially, over time this causes the total LP in existence to increase, thereby shifting some players up to a division where they don't belong. I went over this briefly in my previous post.

bobsenbobFeb 17, 20161 votes

50 lp, FIFTY LP? the combined losses of all of 5 players can very easily reach 100 lp, in other words you can go from last game of your promo series to 0 lp who the fuck loses 10 lp every game? anyone? anyone? When the ranked reset rolled over, I had a relatively high mmr for bronze 5, I was gaining 30-35 lp per game, I still lost more than 10 lp per game, 12 usually. Nobody loses 10 lp a game, usually it's anywhere from 15-25 depending on your mmr in other words, if your internet goes out just once, you just lost the progress of your last 5 games, that's absolutely retarded.

TonsOfGainsFeb 17, 20161 votes

You missed two points:

I used 10LP as an example, because base 10 is easy to work with mathematically. Regardless of what number I used, math would still conclude a 1.6% margin, that's how percentages and ratios work. And again, 1.6% is ridiculously small. That's less than 1/50 of your total games that need to be replayed. Of course, that's speaking in very grim scenarios with frequent disconnect. If you're with a reliable internet provider, like you should be if you're playing ranked, the margin is going to be a lot less than even half a percentage, or 1/200 of your total games.
If you belong where you are, or higher, then you will climb back regardless.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20162 votes

This is dumb. Sometimes it isn't even the afk players fault. They might have disconnected having nothing to do with their end of the internet. Just suck it up and stop being such little toolbag pansies. Grow a pair and take the loss. It's ONE loss. No big deal. If you are raging hard and sulking over one loss, then you've got serious problems you need to take care of before continuing to rank because you're going to get toxic and toxic and toxic and eventually banned. The people who rages at others for their own mistake,t hen after the game add them to friends just to talk more trash is the worst and it all stems from people liek you who can't get over one loss or something like that.

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20163 votes

You lose a couple dozen LP, big deal. Nice hypocrisy though. Again, if your internet is disconnecting consistently you shouldn't be playing at all, let alone ranked.

No one said anything about raging and being toxic, nice to see I'm discussing this with someone who has poor reading comprehension.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20161 votes

People who complain about one loss are toxic people. Just look at how you're antagonizing anyone who disagree with you. Nice hypocrisy blah blah blah. The rank system should be the way I want it. What rank am I? Oh right, TonsOfGains is Bronze 4.

Suck it up, be a man, and move on. It's ONE loss. No big deal move on. Everyone loses games. Lose a promo for the 20th time? Who cares? In the old rank system, there is no promos, you lose one game you lose ELO aka rank. People are dying from Boko Haram and ISIS stop crying like a little bitch.

Oh and finally, I'm Korean. I learned 2 languages fluently before I began speaking English. And despite not being so well NOW, I got perfect on SAT's writing and I helped plenty of illiterate dumb Americans write essays for $150 each in college. Korean and Japanese are much harder than English. Before you continue to bitch about my English skills, learn Korean and Japanese first then come back and talk. In the process of learning Spanish now.

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20162 votes

I'm not American, but everyone on the NA servers must be American right? Stop being so angry bud, you seem more worked up about this than anyone else is. No one asked about your life story either, good job you achieved what thousands of other visa students do every year.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20161 votes

I'm not mad, you're antagonizing me and I'm responding. Who's the one complaining here about losing?

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20161 votes

Again, if your reading skills were better, you would've noticed that I have not said anything about losing.

On a side note seem to think you're really good for someone who's only gold, talking about how people are "complaining" and how the system is perfect.

Sr4nk CrayFeb 16, 20161 votes

Every player makes mistakes but then you have the 0-10 laners before 20 minutes. That is every game on either team at this elo and its a struggle to carry.

There is a great post about it under the best tab!

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20161 votes

Dude I understand you have games like that in almost every rank man. It doesn't stop. These same laners don't come in the game thinking "I'm going to go 0-10 or I'm gonna be toxic and feed." All of your teammates (or most) come in the game thinking they want to win. That's what you people don't get. The best part is that people who complain about one loss and can't move on are usually the most toxic. Why? Because when bad things happen in game that might contribute to loss, they might rage at you and be toxic. When you lose, they might continue bitching at you, spam report for nonreportable offense, then sometimes even add you to friends to talk more trash. These people aren't just born out of nowhere.

At the end of the day if you can't get over a loss, you are the one that is toxic because everyone else can move on and think "No big deal, on to the next." Threads like these just reveal which is which and I think Craykon is not toxic; gives a fair statement and doesn't antagonize teammates for the loss. Just says it's a struggle to carry. This is a good attitude; most of you are being pissy and whiny spoiled brats saying come get it fam it's lit. And also seriously I've never seen this many peopel say the n word every damn game.

SacklarFeb 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This is dumb. Sometimes it isn't even the afk players fault. They might have disconnected having nothing to do with their end of the internet. Just suck it up and stop being such little toolbag pansies. Grow a pair and take the loss. It's ONE loss. No big deal. If you are raging hard and sulking over one loss, then you've got serious problems you need to take care of before continuing to rank because you're going to get toxic and toxic and toxic and eventually banned. The people who rages at others for their own mistake,t hen after the game add them to friends just to talk more trash is the worst and it all stems from people liek you who can't get over one loss or something like that.

Don't think there really complain ING bout just one loss... but I agree don't care bout ur reasoning don't care bout ur personal problems u jack with my game u should be punished... simple I unlike most Peaple in this world not gonna lie n say I care bout ur problems as long as they don't cause me problems that simple :)

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20161 votes

Me neither I don't care about people's personal problems but they will happen regardless. Failure to understand that is both naivety and ignorance. They'll happen to you once in a while. Some connectivity issues are out of people's control and more relies on ISP or other external sources. That's not the point of my post. Hit punish for those people; they won't get banned for just random DC's in one game out of how many hundred games you don't DC.

LegendmakerGXFeb 16, 20165 votes

Riot Lyte promised to work on this like.....1 and a half year ago soooo maybe another 1 year? Lyte can't really accomplish anything to tell you the truth unless you give him over 2 years since Tribunal which he said he was working on 2 years ago isn't done yet. I don't even know how he got a high position at his work place when he barely done anything at all.

Wallaroo0226Feb 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Riot Lyte promised to work on this like.....1 and a half year ago soooo maybe another 1 year? Lyte can't really accomplish anything to tell you the truth unless you give him over 2 years since Tribunal which he said he was working on 2 years ago isn't done yet. I don't even know how he got a high position at his work place when he barely done anything at all.

Did you listen to anything Lyte had to say? It was the most bogus, psychobabble nonsense ever. They basically said they wanted to step back from punishing players because it made them more toxic, and try to encourage them to be better people. What a load of nonsense. If this wasn't a micro-transaction game they would have banned most of these tools a long time ago.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 16, 20163 votes

today on my last promo match. i was 2-2. and we had an afk. feels great. last match. i had an afk too. its fucking awesome how riot handles things.

Packun FlowerFeb 16, 20163 votes

Why the fuck are demotions still a thing? Demotions are the leading cause of Toxicity in this game, they create pressure and stress thus causing players to become more irritable and toxic. Nothing about them is fun and everything about them is anti-fun, yet they are still around. Why? because riot logic.

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 201616 votes

Actually, no. Competition is the cause of toxicity. The fact that you can "win" at all will cause toxicity to exist. Demotions exist because you can easily get lucky or get carried and put into a division that's higher than where you belong. If you didn't get demoted accordingly, you would continue to influence games negatively, perpetually.

What's stupid is the promotion system. Runs largely off of luck, expecting you to win multiple consecutive wins, despite that a climber would have wins over a vast span of games, not concentrated in just one small window.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20164 votes

No you don't understand the current promotion system. It isn't purely based on luck. It is based on statistics. Now there is some level of probability and uncertainty there but it isn't just luck.

MrWasjigFeb 16, 20166 votes

You're actually saying that with a straight face? Promotions do rely heavily on luck, given they usually come down to: "How many fucktards will I get on my team?" The fewer the fucktards, the higher your chances of succeeding. Because lest we forget, this is a team game and even solo carrying is impossible on a team of idiots. (outside of Bronze maybe)

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20161 votes

Yes I am. Did you actually read what I said? It is based on statistics. I never said you never need luck but THE REASON WHY DYNAMIC QUEUE IS BAD AND SOLO Q FINDS YOUR INDIVIDUAL TALENTS were that you generate your own statistics. If you have over 50% win rate, you will climb gradually and that would be at a decent rate too. If you win 50% of your games, that's not just pure luck if you have the same "fucktards" in your team every game. They never stop disappearing no matter how high rank you go. Just because you're inability to close out games does not mean rank system is based on luck.

Think about it this way, the current rank system is EASIER to rank than it was before because people like you kept crying. All it did was fill people with false sense of achievement and think they are good. I played in high plat with low diamonds and yeah things are much better here mechanics wise and game knowledge wise but people still suck. Me including. But it's amazing people strut around like they think their **** is made of diamond after making a mistake a bronze player would have made.

Again you just don't understand the rank system. If we were in the old ELO system, every one of us would be ranked significantly lower than our own current rank. Yes you would be bronze buddy.

MrWasjigFeb 16, 20162 votes

You're assuming a lot there. You know what they say about assuming. A) I know how the ranked system works B) I never "kept crying" about the ranked system. It's not going anywhere and hasn't done for several seasons so there's no use in complaining about something that will not change.

Also I don't recall anyone saying it was easier to rank up. I'm several divisions lower than where I finished last season and am currently running a negative winrate. Besides the game is stomp either way right now, so make of that what you will.

On a seperate note, I suggest in future you don't assume so much from so little.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20161 votes

I didn't assume all that much and if you think I did you clearly didn't read what I wrote. Also "How many fucktards given on my team" is basically crying like a little whiny bitch.

Finally several divisions higher don't mean shit. You really think people who's silver 1 is that much better than someone who's silver 5? No. People in silver aren't that much better than people in bronze. Plat isn't even that good. It is significantly easier to rank up now because you came AFTER the new rank system where it is easier. You're an idiot. Again if we still used the ELO rating system, you would be demoted after every loss. Riot implemented new rank system so people won't get toxic over one loss. But people like YOU keep crying about this making it so much more complicating and stressful than it needs to be.

On a separate note, I suggest in the future you actually read what is wrote instead of reading whatever delusional thing you chose to read. The post wasn't so much targeting you but so much as people who's complaining like you. This passive aggressive "Oh I get shit-tards in my team based on luck, no accountability on me, just Riot and my dumb teammates" attitude is basically the toxic people hiding in a closet. A person who doesn't care about getting a loss does not act toxic because that loss is not important. You move on. A person who complains about a loss and about teammates and about Riot; well losing will infuriate them thus make you toxic.

MrWasjigFeb 16, 20162 votes

And you're calling ME toxic? People in glass houses dude. You might wanna watch what you say before you condemn people for something. I don't like you attitude, and yet you're calling mine bad? I'm not even going to bother with you now. Good day Sir. Keep insulting people baselessly.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20162 votes

Am I toxic for saying stop whining? Am I toxic for saying you are choosing to be ignorant and an idiot. The answer is all right here in front of you; you just read the parts you want to and make. I'm not the one complaining. I have no problems here. It is YOU with the one with problems with other players causing you to lose. That's no one else's problems but yours and all you are doing is complaining about it. You know what everyone else does? Move on. My attitude is bad, yeah ok. Maybe my attitude is just mature and moves on?

You still aren't addressing the part where obsessing over losses make you the ultimate toxic asshole in league. These people rage the hardest and say the worst shit. I've said you're an idiot. Wow. I'm such toxic.

Most ironic thing is how in game I'm the one who's happy even when I lose on average. Everyone tilts and gets angry sometimes. But every time you lose, you are raging and trash talking people. I'm only talking like this because I log on forums after a hiatus and all I see is a bunch of 8 year old kids crying.

MrWasjigFeb 16, 20161 votes

But every time you lose, you are raging and trash talking people.

There you go assuming again. And calling someone an idiot is just being a jerk. A better way of saying it would be "I believe you're misinformed"

Your attitude is why I don't want to further this discussion. Good day Sir.

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20165 votes

Your reading is poor. I said "largely" not "purely". They are not synonymous in any sense.
You clearly don't know anything about statistics. If you flipped a coin 8 times and got heads, would you bet a billion dollars on the 9th one being tails? If yes, you're probably subject to the gambler's fallacy which demonstrates you don't understand statistics.

To climb you need a positive overall win rate. If you were to graph a player's games, who had an 80% win rate, you will likely find that a large number of wins and losses occur in clumps, rather than in groups of 4:1. Likewise, promo games take a tiny snapshot of your total career. As such, you could easily repeatedly land an unlucky streak of losses on promo games despite having even a 90% or 99.9% win rate.

Would also like to add that laxjoh was gold in S4, plat in S5, gold III now. Again, demonstrating my point. A gold III managed to win 3 promotion series to get into plat. The opposite can happen - a plat losing 3 promotions in gold III.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20162 votes

I don't think you understand statistics either. All you need to climb (fast too) is a 50% win rate. That's it. It's been proven Bronze is a rank you can solo carry yourself out of and it isn't hard. I do it every season, my brother who is only a silver can do it every season.

Also I still think you don't understand the rank system at all. You're at the bottom of the barrel Bronze 4. I'm Gold now because I was placed in Silver. Nearly everyone drops about a rank or two. I was placed in silver and am gold 3 now. I don't even play that much. All my ranks show is that I'm climbing steadily with a measley 53% win rate AND a lot of people I'm playing against were season 5 plats, diamonds, and high golds so we're still basically in plat. It's just those with 50% win rate or above will gradually get to plat and gradually climb.

This is the funniest attempt to try to insult someone after being all politically correct "I said largely not purely, you must not have gone to grammar school"

Finally, to prove to everyone reading this why no one should take your opinion on this matter seriously whatsoever; flipping a coin is complete; there is one side and the other. Meaning there is only two outcomes 50/50 right? Nevermind the actual % of it being heads more than tails blah blahb lah. If you win at the rate of which you flip a coin, you will gradually climb. I don't know wtf you're complaining about. And even if I lose promos in gold 3 what does that matter? If you watch streams of challengers I've seen them lose multiple promos in lower ranks too. The difference between me and you though is I'm playing against season 5 plats, diamonds, golds. You can't even get out of bronze. You can't really criticize me for where I am haha especially coming from someone who thinks they understand the rank system but does not.

Study statistics again. Probability is only one small part of statistics.

TonsOfGainsFeb 16, 20161 votes

That makes no logical or mathematical sense whatsoever. If your win rate is 50%, your net gain after any number of games played is going to be 0 LP.

When you finally say something logical again, I will respond. Which is unlikely.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20162 votes

If you're winning 50% you are gaining 20 lp and losing 15 lp (depending on mmr) but if you're winning 50% you should be rising, not gaining 0 lp. Again you're showing you don't know the rank system.

Your assumption is that if you are winning half your games and losing half, you will have static LP. This isn't true. That's not how this rank system is. I thin kyou truly don't understand what this rank system is like.

Wallaroo0226Feb 17, 20163 votes

With all due respect you are crazy if you think a 50% win rate leads to fast climbing. In my experience it doesn't even lead to climbing. Most people are angry because the promo series added an extra layer of luck to a system that is already a bit luck based. I'll give Riot credit for adding the free win if you were there before because quite frankly it is entirely necessary. The first season when Riot introduced the promo series I grinded 3 promo series to try to reach Gold. I lost all 3 series in the most disgusting of ways despite abusing the then OP Shyvana in Jungle. In these games I could typically take out 3 of the enemy team before dying. If one... yes just one of my teammates was even halfway competent I could have easily won at least one of my series to Gold. The experience was so terrible that I'm pretty sure I stopped playing for a few weeks in complete disgust.

Let's leave out the fact that I have no clue how some people are in the divisions they are currently in some of the time in terms of skill. You still have to deal with AFK'ers, the occasional troll outburst, and people who think rolling the dice on an extremely unstable connection is perfectly OK for queuing up for ranked. This leads to tilting by relatively better players who aren't even hotheads to begin with.

The distribution is also very uneven to the point where I question the design of the ranked system. Back in 2013 someone plotted that roughly 90% of LoL players are in Bronze and Silver. That alone shoots down your theory that winning 50% of the time let's you rank up "quickly" as you claim.

Eevee In A JarFeb 17, 20161 votes

This is less luck based than what the ELO rating used to be. You say this rank system is BS and unfair but it was more unfair and this is as fair as it can get. People are just mad they continuously fail at promos. And I'm climbing fast with just barely above 50% win rate. The difference is that when I lose promos it's no big deal really. Because even if you lose promos you don't DROP rank or lose rank you still maintain the same rank. Previously, you did not get such leniency. That is why it is so annoying to see peopel complain about it.

And ok 90% of LoL players might be in bronze and silver but there are peopel who can continuously climb out of them. It's not based on luck because they are consistently doing it. CONSISTENCY. THAT is what the rank system is about.

KrugLyfeFeb 17, 20161 votes

That 50% winrate you're talking about doesn't sound right lol I have a 65% winrate but climbing is annoying as hell lol only 17 lp per win i don't get how that happens.

KrugLyfeFeb 17, 20161 votes

I've won all my promos so far it's not that bad sure it puts more pressure on me to try and carry but it's fine the way it is.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20164 votes

You're an idiot. Demotions are a thing because this is a ranked system not a fluffed up pansy system where we give everyone participation trophy even if you did horrible. Without demotions basically any scrub can make it to Challenger as long as they put in the time; no skill required.

Troll for TrumpFeb 16, 20163 votes

not a fluffed up pansy system

The automated report system begs to differ

ManiacalCoyoteFeb 16, 20161 votes

What's reportable about referring to somebody as a flower?

Oh, right. It was once a slightly homophobic slur. A long time ago. And, honestly, the reason it slips through the cracks is because it's so mild of a slur.

Eevee In A JarFeb 16, 20163 votes

No one said you need to be bigoted. People are just complaining. People sure take things the wrong way in League. You say Hi, can I get through, people say F you, you trying to screw with me?

And I'm being downvoted but I did write facts. If there were no demotions, any scrub with 0 skill and afks every game will eventually make it to Challenger. We should DEFINITELY listen to you guys.

WimbledofyFeb 16, 20163 votes

"it's 2016" sorry bud that doesn't change anything. Just because it is 2016 doesn't mean it should automatically happen. And if you don't want to get demoted for having an afk on your team does that mean you should also not get promoted when there is an afk on the enemy team? Right now it is balanced because there will be just as many afks on enemy team as there will be on your team, and if we assume you never afk then there is a higher chance for there to be an afk on the enemy team.