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Karma QOL Fixes

Demerol··4 votes·390 views

There are a few things I'd like to suggest for karma, both players and opponents.

  1. Her w should have a range/break indicator on it when its been cast, as well as a more noticeable indicator as to when its about to bind.

  2. Her q should cast from in front of her model, It currently seems like when casting her q when empowered it cast from slightly behind he model which causes it to clip minions that are directly to the side of you. I have plenty of clips of this happening.

  3. Her w needs to have its tick duration normalized with other similar snares / binds. (Morgana, fiddle sticks drain, etc) The .25 tick change that was implemented on them may help karmas in keeping people leashed or allowing people to time escapes better.

Edit: Other players notes

  1. W's "cast" range and "break" range are identical, so if someone is on the edge of your tether range you will cast it, and then have it break instantly with almost no chance of reacting to it. Increasing the tether range, while possibly decreasing cast range could help with this.

  2. It would almost be more idealistic for her W to apply a single target slow, vs her Q applying an aoe slow. This would give her single target controllability which is the main goal of W vs the slow potential of a Q landing.

  3. The slow already given to Q isnt enough to keep a champion in the circle even if you land it directly on them, even with no boots. Empowered q's slow could be increased slightly as well.

8 Comments

SilverSquid2 votes

  1. Should probably be visible to both Karma and the enemy. Seems fair tho.

  2. Good catch! It always felt wonky to me, but I could never nail it down.

  3. That's a bit problematic. I have been thinking about it too, but it might be really counterintuitive, that an ability, that ticks 9 times, procs the passive 3 times.

I would also like to add, that - if someone runs out of tether range while you're casting it - at least half the cooldown should be refunded if the tether is cancelled... because the ability did nothing anyways. It currently also consumes your mantra, which is more than stupid.

The last thing, that could be.... a thing, is reactivating your mantra, to cancel it and refund half the cd.

Demerol1 votes

I like the mantra cancel option, There are multiple times i mantra to engage, then need to make a quick re-decision and id rather not waste the mantra charge.

One thing they could do, is give mantra a ammo stack, allow her to store 2 of them, so using 1 wouldnt be broken, But it would potentially give her too much hidden power being able to double combo a w/q empowered.

SilverSquid1 votes

One thing they could do, is give mantra a ammo stack, allow her to store 2 of them, so using 1 wouldnt be broken, But it would potentially give her too much hidden power being able to double combo a w/q empowered.

Double mantra charges were one of the problems why they reworked old Karma. The reasoning was, that the power of her mantra'd abilities were always gated by the fact, that she could potentially have two of them. This made them lackluster alone, but two lackluster abilities were too strong. It also messed with the power of her basic abilities. When they remade Karma they made sure, that her mantra felt like an ultimate, and her basic abilities were useful on their own. They just killed half her character in the process.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

I tried making a modern Karma with mantra stacks, that could possibly work, adressing some of the problems. The initial idea is from a Karma player on EUW called EDYinnit; give Karma the possibility to double charge basic abilities (the first charge adds duality, the second charge upgrades it to ultimate level). This would give Karma the satisfying feeling of having multiple options, as well as giving her game changing moments. In my version of this rework, I made her second charge only available at lvl6, so her pre6 could be easier balanced and her post6 wouldn't fall off as much.

Take a look for yourself: A Modern Karma with 2 Mantra Charges?

Darth Pixy Misa1 votes

IMO karma needs to have

Her W needs to be changed so that the range is 700, and the tether range is 1200. Karma needs to have all her damaging skills to count towards her Mantra passive when targeting Champs, minions, or jungle mobs. For instance if you use W on Blue Sentinel it does not proc Karma's passive.

Demerol1 votes

The range on the tether is ok right now, it could be a slight be more, but it almost gets to where they are out of Q range at a max length tether. Which makes landing your skillshots harder so I think riot has the length correct. But there is the issue of instantly casting a W then them stepping out of range and nothing happening because of it. THis is one of the reasons i suggested the .25 ticks instead of .5 ticks like it currently has.

Demerol1 votes

Thanks for the input guys, Bumped and added some info to the initial post.

SilverSquid1 votes

On your updated notes:

W's "cast" range and "break" range are identical, so if someone is on the edge of your tether range you will cast it, and then have it break instantly with almost no chance of reacting to it. Increasing the tether range, while possibly decreasing cast range could help with this.

Not true. The castrange is 675 and the max range is 1000. However, tether has a casttime of 0.5s. A character with no boots can travel slightly more than this distance in 1s. If Karma casts Q (0.25s casttime) directly after W, a character with 434+ movespeed can already escape her range during that castingtime. If a champion has a dash, this can easily happen during the W casttime alone. This behaviour left some Karma fans to believe the tether would break instantly and the castrange equals the max range because of that.

_ It would almost be more idealistic for her W to apply a single target slow, vs her Q applying an aoe slow. This would give her single target controllability which is the main goal of W vs the slow potential of a Q landing._

Bad idea in my opinion. Her tether is already point and click, so the only counterplay to it is -> get out of range. A targeted slow would prevent the counterplay to the ability it's on. Not that I find W good as it is, but I'd rather see an ally function on W or something.

The slow already given to Q isnt enough to keep a champion in the circle even if you land it directly on them, even with no boots. Empowered q's slow could be increased slightly as well.

The 25% slow on Q isn't enough to really do anything sucessfully. It barely weighs off the castingtime on it (one reason why Rylais is so good in on her in theory). However, I am against supercharging her already overused RQ further, instead of giving Karma real options (like, you know, a shieldbomb).

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

  1. The slow already given to Q isnt enough to keep a champion in the circle even if you land it directly on them, even with no boots. Empowered q's slow could be increased slightly as well.

I don't think Riot will want to remove counterplay from her Q.

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