Boards›Gameplay

You 50/50 +/- 1 system work, I can tell. -_-

HyperTechno··2 votes·625 views

It's like, Riot expect people to be the exact skill level as their elo. Because everyone, somehow in Riots eyes, does not want to try or try to get better. Nothing is equal Riot, there is, only balance.

This type of system works when you have a small group of people playing League of Legends, this is perfect for diamond and over because they know the game the best, but even there it fails. You have a player base of 100 million now, there won't be any 50/50 +/- 1 games. I would suggest basing teams the way Mobalytics is basing players on aggression, fighting, vision, toughness, teamplay, consistency, and versatility. Base teams on skills and what lacks, so it's balanced that way. If I lag at farming, put me against a person who knows how to farm but lags another aspect, that I'm good at. This will not be everyone, but most players, when they see him or her doing better at that skill they lag, they will think "I need to get better at that."

I do not consider myself a pro, I can't win every game. But there will be many games, where players played really well, won't be able to carry at all. There is a large chance of us getting a team that can't communicate with us, ward, don't know follow up, or a team that just plain out fed the enemy team.

Sometimes we get lucky. However, I hate the fact that we can't depend on our skill, but have to depend on luck. This game is not something you can put a 50/50 system on anymore, that's not how the world works it's not a casino. Everyone is not at the same equal skill stat, they are either worse or better at one or more things to balance out.

I'm not a pro, many of my games were my fault. But because it doesn't matter if I'm skilled, fed, place relevant wards, getting better. It won't matter because it isn't 50/50 and it's about luck.

Players who put too much time into this game to get better, won't be rewarded for their hard work. Please, understand Riot.

20 Comments

Subdue3 votes

If the majority of your games feel "like a casino" it's because the system has accurately placed you and you no longer have a significant skill advantage over the people you're playing with to control the outcome of games.

HyperTechno1 votes

{quoted}

If the majority of your games feel "like a casino" it's because the system has accurately placed you and you no longer have a significant skill advantage over the people you're playing with to control the outcome of games.

I see what you are getting at, I can't really disagree with your statement because its true. But I can add to my argument and you can tell me if I'm wrong.

Many of my games do feel unbalanced. I may be teamed with fair opponents. However, it isn't the same for my jungler, top, and/or bot lane.

After looking through some of my games, I figured out that I'm the only B3 player and my team is usually lower than me. While my enemy is my level or higher. Making the game unfair for my team, because they may lag the skills to win the game or they were boosted last season.

Because League has a player base of 100 million, it's hard to make use of the 50/50 system. It works but is very limited. I found a player with 0% win rate. If one person can reach that number, many other players can as well. Proving that the 50/50 system is kinda unbalanced. No one should be this low on the scale.

The 50/50 system only favors one or the other side, this should not be a true statement. It should be based on peoples overall knowledge of the game, skills, communication, warding, and strategy. I do not see that happening in Leauge of Legends, it is about, what team comb is better and who just got lucky.

You can make a successful Baron b8, but it can't help a team turn things around a lot of the time. That's the problem, there is not enough in the game, that could turn it around if the enemy is ahead. If they are ahead that is it, end of the line. Only if you make a lucky play, you have almost zero chance to win in the end.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

I see what you are getting at, I can't really disagree with your statement because its true. But I can add to my argument and you can tell me if I'm wrong.

Many of my games do feel unbalanced. I may be teamed with fair opponents. However, it isn't the same for my jungler, top, and/or bot lane.

After looking through some of my games, I figured out that I'm the only B3 player and my team is usually lower than me. While my enemy is my level or higher. Making the game unfair for my team, because they may lag the skills to win the game or they were boosted last season.

Because League has a player base of 100 million, it's hard to make use of the 50/50 system. It works but is very limited. I found a player with 0% win rate. If one person can reach that number, many other players can as well. Proving that the 50/50 system is kinda unbalanced. No one should be this low on the scale.

The 50/50 system only favors one or the other side, this should not be a true statement. It should be based on peoples overall knowledge of the game, skills, communication, warding, and strategy. I do not see that happening in Leauge of Legends, it is about, what team comb is better and who just got lucky.

You can make a successful Baron b8, but it can't help a team turn things around a lot of the time. That's the problem, there is not enough in the game, that could turn it around if the enemy is ahead. If they are ahead that is it, end of the line. Only if you make a lucky play, you have almost zero chance to win in the end.

This sounds like a misunderstanding of what Riot meant by 50/50. The system selects 10 players of relatively similar skill, skill being measured by MMR, which is directly based on each player's /past/ ability to win relative to the player base. This means that going into the game, both teams should have a 50/50 chance to win. It does not mean that you have a 50/50 chance to win after you've been heavily outpicked in champ select. It does not mean you have a 50/50 chance to win after you give up first blood in a pre-minion invade. It does not mean you have a 50/50 chance to win after you've given up 3 towers.

HyperTechno1 votes

{quoted}

This sounds like a misunderstanding of what Riot meant by 50/50. The system selects 10 players of relatively similar skill, skill being measured by MMR, which is directly based on each player's /past/ ability to win relative to the player base. This means that going into the game, both teams should have a 50/50 chance to win. It does not mean that you have a 50/50 chance to win after you've been heavily outpicked in champ select. It does not mean you have a 50/50 chance to win after you give up first blood in a pre-minion invade. It does not mean you have a 50/50 chance to win after you've given up 3 towers.

Again, not every player is equal, just because they have a large MMR it doesn't mean they are good. Chouth... They were boosted, unless if they are in diamond 2 and up then yes, they got them skills man.

MMR doesn't determine your skill, nor is it anywhere near accurate to anyone's real ability to play. Smurfs playing in lower elo, they just lose two or three games even though they hammered the low elo players, they stay in that elo level because they purposefully lost the game. Making the 50/50 system inaccurate and won't make any fair match ups. Team games should be measured the same way Mobalytics is basing people because if Riot does this instead of this MMR BS, the 50/50 system would be more accurate, would make the game a lot more fun, and maybe even more competitive and develop new good players. Because you do not need to fear that there may be a fucking SMURF IN YOUR GOD DAMN GAME.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

Again, not every player is equal, just because they have a large MMR it doesn't mean they are good. Chouth... They were boosted, unless if they are in diamond 2 and up then yes, they got them skills man.

MMR doesn't determine your skill, nor is it anywhere near accurate to anyone's real ability to play. Smurfs playing in lower elo, they just lose two or three games even though they hammered the low elo players, they stay in that elo level because they purposefully lost the game. Making the 50/50 system inaccurate and won't make any fair match ups. Team games should be measured the same way Mobalytics is basing people because if Riot does this instead of this MMR BS, the 50/50 system would be more accurate, would make the game a lot more fun, and maybe even more competitive and develop new good players. Because you do not need to fear that there may be a fucking SMURF IN YOUR GOD DAMN GAME.

Your argument against MMR are that (A) the person on the account is not the same person who earned the MMR and (B) the person on the account is intentionally losing games.

Well shit dude, you got me there. What system can accurately predict that a different person is on an account BEFORE the game starts? What system can accurately predict that a player will intentionally lose a game BEFORE the game starts?

Holy heck, it's like you don't even read what you've typed before you hit post.

And by the way, since you mentioned Mobalytics, have a good read, right from their blog:

"In all three of these cases, the posters are blaming outside factors instead of considering their own. Their perceptions of reality make them feel like they are consistently superior than their teammates and all the bad things that happen to them are because of them. Sure, you may get less than favorable teammates every once in a while (hey, everyone has bad games), but to believe you get teammates worse than you EVERY game is completely false.

If this were the case, wouldn’t there be just many bad players on both teams? And if that was true and both teams had bad players on it, wouldn’t that be even more motivation to improve yourself so you can rise above all the bad players to dominate?

This mentality also leads players to feel frustrated, and increasingly more tilted and toxic. Instead of thinking of possible holes in their game that can be worked on, they blame all of their losses on their teammates. With this line of thought, it’s incredibly hard to improve because your state of mind is in a bad place. If you’re tilted your decision-making will be clouded and your consistency will be affected."

https://mobalytics.gg/blog/how-to-evaluate-your-play-to-improve-guide-dunning-kruger-effect-league-of-legends/

HyperTechno1 votes

{quoted}

Your argument against MMR are that (A) the person on the account is not the same person who earned the MMR and (B) the person on the account is intentionally losing games.

Well shit dude, you got me there. What system can accurately predict that a different person is on an account BEFORE the game starts? What system can accurately predict that a player will intentionally lose a game BEFORE the game starts?

Holy heck, it's like you don't even read what you've typed before you hit post.

And by the way, since you mentioned Mobalytics, have a good read, right from their blog:

"In all three of these cases, the posters are blaming outside factors instead of considering their own. Their perceptions of reality make them feel like they are consistently superior than their teammates and all the bad things that happen to them are because of them. Sure, you may get less than favorable teammates every once in a while (hey, everyone has bad games), but to believe you get teammates worse than you EVERY game is completely false.

If this were the case, wouldn’t there be just many bad players on both teams? And if that was true and both teams had bad players on it, wouldn’t that be even more motivation to improve yourself so you can rise above all the bad players to dominate?

This mentality also leads players to feel frustrated, and increasingly more tilted and toxic. Instead of thinking of possible holes in their game that can be worked on, they blame all of their losses on their teammates. With this line of thought, it’s incredibly hard to improve because your state of mind is in a bad place. If you’re tilted your decision-making will be clouded and your consistency will be affected."

https://mobalytics.gg/blog/how-to-evaluate-your-play-to-improve-guide-dunning-kruger-effect-league-of-legends/

Dingus, I'm done.

Here read the fucking thing at stop being stupid.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/al95MEjO-the-matchmaking-system-actively-works-against-you-climbing

Just because 50/50 sound good on paper, it doesn't mean it works, if the teaming system is flawed. As I said not every person in this game is equal.

"I'm not a pro, many of my games were my fault. But because it doesn't matter if I'm skilled, fed, place relevant wards, getting better. It won't matter because it isn't 50/50, but it's about luck." - HyperTechno

"Sometimes we get lucky. However, I hate the fact that we can't depend on our skill, but have to depend on luck. This game is not something you can put a 50/50 system on anymore, that's not how the world works it's not a casino. Everyone is not at the same equal skill stat, they are either worse or better at one or more things to balance out." - HyperTechno

"The game by default will attempt to match you closer to your rank by MMR. So if you're 200 over the amount that's normal for your rank, it will pair you with people who are on loss streaks 200 below their rank, to balance the teams out.

Because its the same number right? Clearly, they are equal in skill? WRONG. A player on a 30 win streak from silver who meets someone on a 30 loss streak from platinum is not the same skill. One is gonna continue to climb and the other is going to continue to fall. Quit putting them together.

Just because 190 + 10 + 50 + 150 + 100 = 500 does not make that team equal against a 100 x 5 = 500 team. They are going to lose because of the two losers.

Quit putting them together. It's not the same." - Hibeki

Hibeki has already made it much more clear, better than I could. It also seems like most people agree, not just me. The ranking system needs to change because it's flawed.

You never read what you wrote, you never proved anything, and you literally pointed at me like I was a mad idiot who couldn't climb.

"In all three of these cases, the posters are blaming outside factors instead of considering their own. Their perceptions of reality make them feel like they are consistently superior to their teammates and all the bad things that happen to them are because of them. Sure, you may get less than favorable teammates every once in a while (hey, everyone has bad games), but to believe you get teammates worse than you EVERY game is completely false.

If this were the case, wouldn’t there be just many bad players on both teams? And if that was true and both teams had bad players on it, wouldn’t that be even more motivation to improve yourself so you can rise above all the bad players to dominate?

This mentality also leads players to feel frustrated, and increasingly more tilted and toxic. Instead of thinking of possible holes in their game that can be worked on, they blame all of their losses on their teammates. With this line of thought, it’s incredibly hard to improve because your state of mind is in a bad place. If you’re tilted your decision-making will be clouded and your consistency will be affected."

So here you go with this quote from me.

"I do not consider myself a pro, I can't win every game. But there will be many games, where players played really well, won't be able to carry at all. There is a large chance of us getting a team that can't communicate with us, ward, don't know follow up, or a team that just plain out fed the enemy team." - HyperTechno

Me mad, not even.

Riot even said this.

The basic priorities of the system are in order:

  1. Protecting newbies from experienced players.
  2. Fairness & creating competitive matches
  3. Finding a match at all. The longer you wait, the less important priorities #1 and #2 are

We have smurfs, we do not get fair and competitive matches. The 3td one is just fucking retarded. There is a reason why we put them as our priority 1 and 2 because it's our best choice. They are what we are good at. UUUUUUUUHHHHHHH

Step 2: Determine who your eligible opponents might be: Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever. Newbies get some special protection and are usually matched vs other newbies.

Yeah Riot, I see that a lot. "Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever." That explains why I keep getting noobs almost half the flipping time.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=12029

Here is your argument.

The system is never wrong, and it will fair match you every time. Because smurfs don't exist. Hyper is just mad at my lord and savior Riots MMR system and is telling us all a lie, a lie clearly many people agree on. But no, I know I'm right. Because he is clearly talking about how the game is already lost because of first-blood, three towers down, and he doesn't talk directly about the MMR system.

I'm so sorry, you can't read. But at least, we got a good talk. But you insulted me and now it's time for some payback.

Answer my questions here:

Why do you not come up with a valid argument? Why don't you prove your sources? Why do you need to be rude? What did I say to piss you off? Prove to me that the system isn't flawed? Tell me why you right? Tell me how people are equally good in every game? Tell me how many games you have lost or won that was anywhere remotely fair? Tell me.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

Dingus, I'm done.

Here read the fucking thing at stop being stupid.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/al95MEjO-the-matchmaking-system-actively-works-against-you-climbing

Just because 50/50 sound good on paper, it doesn't mean it works, if the teaming system is flawed. As I said not every person in this game is equal.

"I'm not a pro, many of my games were my fault. But because it doesn't matter if I'm skilled, fed, place relevant wards, getting better. It won't matter because it isn't 50/50, but it's about luck." - HyperTechno

"Sometimes we get lucky. However, I hate the fact that we can't depend on our skill, but have to depend on luck. This game is not something you can put a 50/50 system on anymore, that's not how the world works it's not a casino. Everyone is not at the same equal skill stat, they are either worse or better at one or more things to balance out." - HyperTechno

"The game by default will attempt to match you closer to your rank by MMR. So if you're 200 over the amount that's normal for your rank, it will pair you with people who are on loss streaks 200 below their rank, to balance the teams out.

Because its the same number right? Clearly, they are equal in skill? WRONG. A player on a 30 win streak from silver who meets someone on a 30 loss streak from platinum is not the same skill. One is gonna continue to climb and the other is going to continue to fall. Quit putting them together.

Just because 190 + 10 + 50 + 150 + 100 = 500 does not make that team equal against a 100 x 5 = 500 team. They are going to lose because of the two losers.

Quit putting them together. It's not the same." - Hibeki

Hibeki has already made it much more clear, better than I could. It also seems like most people agree, not just me. The ranking system needs to change because it's flawed.

You never read what you wrote, you never proved anything, and you literally pointed at me like I was a mad idiot who couldn't climb.

"In all three of these cases, the posters are blaming outside factors instead of considering their own. Their perceptions of reality make them feel like they are consistently superior to their teammates and all the bad things that happen to them are because of them. Sure, you may get less than favorable teammates every once in a while (hey, everyone has bad games), but to believe you get teammates worse than you EVERY game is completely false.

If this were the case, wouldn’t there be just many bad players on both teams? And if that was true and both teams had bad players on it, wouldn’t that be even more motivation to improve yourself so you can rise above all the bad players to dominate?

This mentality also leads players to feel frustrated, and increasingly more tilted and toxic. Instead of thinking of possible holes in their game that can be worked on, they blame all of their losses on their teammates. With this line of thought, it’s incredibly hard to improve because your state of mind is in a bad place. If you’re tilted your decision-making will be clouded and your consistency will be affected."

So here you go with this quote from me.

"I do not consider myself a pro, I can't win every game. But there will be many games, where players played really well, won't be able to carry at all. There is a large chance of us getting a team that can't communicate with us, ward, don't know follow up, or a team that just plain out fed the enemy team." - HyperTechno

Me mad, not even.

Riot even said this.

The basic priorities of the system are in order:

  1. Protecting newbies from experienced players.
  2. Fairness & creating competitive matches
  3. Finding a match at all. The longer you wait, the less important priorities #1 and #2 are

We have smurfs, we do not get fair and competitive matches. The 3td one is just fucking retarded. There is a reason why we put them as our priority 1 and 2 because it's our best choice. They are what we are good at. UUUUUUUUHHHHHHH

Step 2: Determine who your eligible opponents might be: Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever. Newbies get some special protection and are usually matched vs other newbies.

Yeah Riot, I see that a lot. "Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever." That explains why I keep getting noobs almost half the flipping time.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=12029

Here is your argument.

The system is never wrong, and it will fair match you every time. Because smurfs don't exist. Hyper is just mad at my lord and savior Riots MMR system and is telling us all a lie, a lie clearly many people agree on. But no, I know I'm right. Because he is clearly talking about how the game is already lost because of first-blood, three towers down, and he doesn't talk directly about the MMR system.

I'm so sorry, you can't read. But at least, we got a good talk. But you insulted me and now it's time for some payback.

Answer my questions here:

Why do you not come up with a valid argument? Why don't you prove your sources? Why do you need to be rude? What did I say to piss you off? Prove to me that the system isn't flawed? Tell me why you right? Tell me how people are equally good in every game? Tell me how many games you have lost or won that was anywhere remotely fair? Tell me.

I posted my source dude. It's literally the website for the system you're promoting in your original post. IT IS THE MOBALYTICS WEBSITE SAYING THE CRAP YOU'RE SAYING IS WRONG.

And by the way, your "source" is just another complainer like you. He's not a Riot employee, nor does he have any claims to understanding game design. He's literally just another dude who decided to complain.

Meanwhile, you completely IGNORE what the Rioter says about how Riot handles matchmaking, or massively misconstrue it.

HyperTechno1 votes

{quoted}

I posted my source dude. It's literally the website for the system you're promoting in your original post. IT IS THE MOBALYTICS WEBSITE SAYING THE CRAP YOU'RE SAYING IS WRONG.

And by the way, your "source" is just another complainer like you. He's not a Riot employee, nor does he have any claims to understanding game design. He's literally just another dude who decided to complain.

Meanwhile, you completely IGNORE what the Rioter says about how Riot handles matchmaking, or massively misconstrue it.

Yaw, I'm getting tired.

"If the majority of your games feel "like a casino" it's because the system has accurately placed you and you no longer have a significant skill advantage over the people you're playing with to control the outcome of games." - Subdue

Plz, give me a source where this statement is true. The mobalytics source was not even relevant and were just there to insult me m8. It also seems to me you didn't read anything the other person had to say. But hey, it's whatever. It's not like 89 and certain pro players in comments agree, with the "complainer." It's not like he has been playing ranked since season 4 till now, Nah, he is inexperienced about the Rank system. No, really this player has been playing for 6 years and is in Plat, fuck off. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Hibeki Second of all, just because he is not a Riot employee it doesn't mean he is automatically wrong. Thirdly, anyone can come up with a 50/50 system. It doesn't have to be in a video game, but I could say.

"Take this blindfold on and chose 5 people, but all 10 people are in the same elo, but two are 10x better, and two others are 10x worse."

Picks 5 for both team.

Here is the likely outcome of this. The two best got to team up together because the rule says you can't separate a party, but they were unlucky and got the two bad people, the other is average. While the other team is all 5 average people.

However, there is a rule that if the team sounds unbalanced they need to be changed by the judge to balance it out, but the judge finds them balanced because they got two really good people, two bad people on one team, and one average. The other team has five average people on the other team. So it should be fair.

So we start the game.

But because two of people are horrible, let us say you and me. Not only do we do everything wrong we also shit talk each other, because we both go ourselves behind, it suddenly becomes a 3 V 5 because we won't help each other, the team, and ourselves. Now the average guy gets mad and joins our stupid fight, now it is a fucking 2 V 5 now. The enemy team wins the game. Even if we had two really good players.

Oh, wait. That's how the Lol Rank team system sounds like. I wonder why?

No, I didn't. I just merely state the fact of a problem they just won't solve. Here it is again, this time read it.

"The basic priorities of the system are in order:

  1. Protecting newbies from experienced players.
  2. Fairness & creating competitive matches
  3. Finding a match at all. The longer you wait, the less important priorities #1 and #2 are

We have smurfs, we do not get fair and competitive matches. The 3td one is just fucking retarded. There is a reason why we put them as our priority 1 and 2 because it's our best choice. They are what we are good at. UUUUUUUUHHHHHHH

Step 2: Determine who your eligible opponents might be: Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever. Newbies get some special protection and are usually matched vs other newbies.

Yeah Riot, I see that a lot. "Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever." That explains why I keep getting noobs almost half the flipping time."

I even gave you the SORCE to it, so you could read it yourself.

To finish off, you just proved me right.

Me impersonating you: The system is never wrong, and it will fair match you every time. Because smurfs don't exist. Hyper is just mad at my lord and savior Riots MMR system and is telling us all a lie, a lie clearly many people agree on. But no, I know I'm right. Because he is clearly talking about how the game is already lost because of first-blood, three towers down, and he doesn't talk directly about the MMR system

"And by the way, your "source" is just another complainer like you. He's not a Riot employee, nor does he have any claims to understanding game design. He's literally just another dude who decided to complain.

Meanwhile, you completely IGNORE what the Rioter says about how Riot handles matchmaking, or massively misconstrue it." - Subdue.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for my questions to be answered.

Why do you not come up with a valid argument? Why don't you prove your sources? Why do you need to be rude? What did I say to piss you off? Prove to me that the system isn't flawed? Tell me why you right? Tell me how people are equally good in every game? Tell me how many games you have lost or won that was anywhere remotely fair? Tell me.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

Yaw, I'm getting tired.

"If the majority of your games feel "like a casino" it's because the system has accurately placed you and you no longer have a significant skill advantage over the people you're playing with to control the outcome of games." - Subdue

Plz, give me a source where this statement is true. The mobalytics source was not even relevant and were just there to insult me m8. It also seems to me you didn't read anything the other person had to say. But hey, it's whatever. It's not like 89 and certain pro players in comments agree, with the "complainer." It's not like he has been playing ranked since season 4 till now, Nah, he is inexperienced about the Rank system. No, really this player has been playing for 6 years and is in Plat, fuck off. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Hibeki Second of all, just because he is not a Riot employee it doesn't mean he is automatically wrong. Thirdly, anyone can come up with a 50/50 system. It doesn't have to be in a video game, but I could say.

"Take this blindfold on and chose 5 people, but all 10 people are in the same elo, but two are 10x better, and two others are 10x worse."

Picks 5 for both team.

Here is the likely outcome of this. The two best got to team up together because the rule says you can't separate a party, but they were unlucky and got the two bad people, the other is average. While the other team is all 5 average people.

However, there is a rule that if the team sounds unbalanced they need to be changed by the judge to balance it out, but the judge finds them balanced because they got two really good people, two bad people on one team, and one average. The other team has five average people on the other team. So it should be fair.

So we start the game.

But because two of people are horrible, let us say you and me. Not only do we do everything wrong we also shit talk each other, because we both go ourselves behind, it suddenly becomes a 3 V 5 because we won't help each other, the team, and ourselves. Now the average guy gets mad and joins our stupid fight, now it is a fucking 2 V 5 now. The enemy team wins the game. Even if we had two really good players.

Oh, wait. That's how the Lol Rank team system sounds like. I wonder why?

No, I didn't. I just merely state the fact of a problem they just won't solve. Here it is again, this time read it.

"The basic priorities of the system are in order:

  1. Protecting newbies from experienced players.
  2. Fairness & creating competitive matches
  3. Finding a match at all. The longer you wait, the less important priorities #1 and #2 are

We have smurfs, we do not get fair and competitive matches. The 3td one is just fucking retarded. There is a reason why we put them as our priority 1 and 2 because it's our best choice. They are what we are good at. UUUUUUUUHHHHHHH

Step 2: Determine who your eligible opponents might be: Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever. Newbies get some special protection and are usually matched vs other newbies.

Yeah Riot, I see that a lot. "Initially, the system will only match you with very similar players based on the rating you have been assigned. Eventually, it gives you less ideal matches because it doesn't want you to be in line forever." That explains why I keep getting noobs almost half the flipping time."

I even gave you the SORCE to it, so you could read it yourself.

To finish off, you just proved me right.

Me impersonating you: The system is never wrong, and it will fair match you every time. Because smurfs don't exist. Hyper is just mad at my lord and savior Riots MMR system and is telling us all a lie, a lie clearly many people agree on. But no, I know I'm right. Because he is clearly talking about how the game is already lost because of first-blood, three towers down, and he doesn't talk directly about the MMR system

"And by the way, your "source" is just another complainer like you. He's not a Riot employee, nor does he have any claims to understanding game design. He's literally just another dude who decided to complain.

Meanwhile, you completely IGNORE what the Rioter says about how Riot handles matchmaking, or massively misconstrue it." - Subdue.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for my questions to be answered.

Why do you not come up with a valid argument? Why don't you prove your sources? Why do you need to be rude? What did I say to piss you off? Prove to me that the system isn't flawed? Tell me why you right? Tell me how people are equally good in every game? Tell me how many games you have lost or won that was anywhere remotely fair? Tell me.

Lol holy crap. Okay let's see:

  1. Regarding Hibeki: If playing the game a long time is all the cred you need to talk about the ranked system, I've been playing Season 1, been Gold + in every Season I've played in, was Platinum last season, and am Platinum this season.

  2. Regarding the casino comment: It has been beaten to death man. Platinum+ is full of smurfs. That means people who are good at the game rise to the top, and they do so quickly and consistently, while cutting right through Bronze, Silver, and Gold. In fact, back when dodging champ select affected your rating, several people would document literally dodging champ select over and over again to dunk their ratings into Bronze, so they could stomp their way back up. Hell, there are Elo Boosters making money off of being able to carry accounts from Bronze to Diamond. The only rating where people have grounds to complain about matchmaking are way up there in Diamond 1+, where there are so few people that you might end up with Challengers in a game otherwise filled with Diamonds, or people autofilled into roles that aren't their mains. But there's no way around that short of hour+ long queue times. That issue does not apply to Bronze.

  3. Regarding 10 random players: If you take any 10 people with 100 games played in Bronze 4 and match them in various combinations over and over again, they'll all end up close to 50%. This is because they're all about equally skilled. There's no one with 100 games in Bronze 4 that's 10X better better than someone else with 100 games in Bronze 4. If he were 10X better, he wouldn't be in Bronze 4. That's how that works. Yes, if an unknown player is introduced to the system, it takes a few games to sort them out. And if you're lucky/unlucky enough to be in a game with that unknown player, well they may or may not have more agency over the game than you do. No system can accurately sort unknowns right off the bat. Riot's matchmaker is extremely good at moving them quickly though. When Diamond players smurf, they end up in Gold or even Platinum within 20-30 ranked games. Again, there's no shortage of empirical evidence on this.

  4. Regarding shit talking: Yes, shit talking loses games. I never do it, and I immediately mute people who do, so they don't throw off my concentration or tilt me. Shit talking happens all over, no matter how good or bad the players are. But I think you think that if someone does poorly in your game, that makes them a bad player. However, that player objective speaking is likely about as good as you are, and wins about as consistently as you do against the same players you play against. I'll use myself as an example. In my match history you'll find a game where I went 6-5-2 as Rammus. In that same game, I had a Kat on my team that went 3-10-2. But at one point in the game she was 0-8-0. She had fed 6 kills to the enemy Fizz within 15 minutes. Was she a bad player? No, she was just having a bad game. And if you check her match history, prior to that game, she had won 8 of her last 10 games as Kat, and in multiple games had double digit kills. People like you however would look at that score in the one game she played with you and say "Fucking matchmaker, why do you stick me with these bads."

  5. Regarding the stuff you quoted from Zileas's post: There is no shortage of players in Bronze 4. You aren't ending up in a scenario where games are "Less ideal" in Bronze 4. That only applies at the very top of the ladder, where there are very few players. When I say very top, I mean like Challenger level. Challenger players get matched fairly frequently with Diamond players because there aren't always Challenger players playing, and otherwise they'd have to wait for hours in queue. Again, this does not apply to Bronze 4 players like you.

  6. Regarding your impersonation: Yes, I am right. But no, I never claimed the system is never wrong. In fact, I specifically provided several circumstances where the system can get things wrong - but these are circumstances where there is no system that would always get them right. Examples of such circumstances include 1) A smurf that has played too few games to be decently matched - fewer than 30 games, 2) People intentionally losing a match, which no system can ever predict, 3) People playing on accounts they don't own.

  7. Regarding your list of questions: all of those are answered in the above. Google "Elo Booster" and see how many people are making money off of proving you wrong. Look through the ladder and count all the people in Platinum and Diamond with less than 100 games played. Comb through your friends list and see if you can find even one person who has played more than 50 games this season and is still more than 1 tier away from their previous tier. Read: https://mobalytics.gg/blog/how-to-evaluate-your-play-to-improve-guide-dunning-kruger-effect-league-of-legends/

HyperTechno1 votes

{quoted}

Lol holy crap. Okay let's see:

  1. Regarding Hibeki: If playing the game a long time is all the cred you need to talk about the ranked system, I've been playing Season 1, been Gold + in every Season I've played in, was Platinum last season, and am Platinum this season.

  2. Regarding the casino comment: It has been beaten to death man. Platinum+ is full of smurfs. That means people who are good at the game rise to the top, and they do so quickly and consistently, while cutting right through Bronze, Silver, and Gold. In fact, back when dodging champ select affected your rating, several people would document literally dodging champ select over and over again to dunk their ratings into Bronze, so they could stomp their way back up. Hell, there are Elo Boosters making money off of being able to carry accounts from Bronze to Diamond. The only rating where people have grounds to complain about matchmaking are way up there in Diamond 1+, where there are so few people that you might end up with Challengers in a game otherwise filled with Diamonds, or people autofilled into roles that aren't their mains. But there's no way around that short of hour+ long queue times. That issue does not apply to Bronze.

  3. Regarding 10 random players: If you take any 10 people with 100 games played in Bronze 4 and match them in various combinations over and over again, they'll all end up close to 50%. This is because they're all about equally skilled. There's no one with 100 games in Bronze 4 that's 10X better better than someone else with 100 games in Bronze 4. If he were 10X better, he wouldn't be in Bronze 4. That's how that works. Yes, if an unknown player is introduced to the system, it takes a few games to sort them out. And if you're lucky/unlucky enough to be in a game with that unknown player, well they may or may not have more agency over the game than you do. No system can accurately sort unknowns right off the bat. Riot's matchmaker is extremely good at moving them quickly though. When Diamond players smurf, they end up in Gold or even Platinum within 20-30 ranked games. Again, there's no shortage of empirical evidence on this.

  4. Regarding shit talking: Yes, shit talking loses games. I never do it, and I immediately mute people who do, so they don't throw off my concentration or tilt me. Shit talking happens all over, no matter how good or bad the players are. But I think you think that if someone does poorly in your game, that makes them a bad player. However, that player objective speaking is likely about as good as you are, and wins about as consistently as you do against the same players you play against. I'll use myself as an example. In my match history you'll find a game where I went 6-5-2 as Rammus. In that same game, I had a Kat on my team that went 3-10-2. But at one point in the game she was 0-8-0. She had fed 6 kills to the enemy Fizz within 15 minutes. Was she a bad player? No, she was just having a bad game. And if you check her match history, prior to that game, she had won 8 of her last 10 games as Kat, and in multiple games had double digit kills. People like you however would look at that score in the one game she played with you and say "Fucking matchmaker, why do you stick me with these bads."

  5. Regarding the stuff you quoted from Zileas's post: There is no shortage of players in Bronze 4. You aren't ending up in a scenario where games are "Less ideal" in Bronze 4. That only applies at the very top of the ladder, where there are very few players. When I say very top, I mean like Challenger level. Challenger players get matched fairly frequently with Diamond players because there aren't always Challenger players playing, and otherwise they'd have to wait for hours in queue. Again, this does not apply to Bronze 4 players like you.

  6. Regarding your impersonation: Yes, I am right. But no, I never claimed the system is never wrong. In fact, I specifically provided several circumstances where the system can get things wrong - but these are circumstances where there is no system that would always get them right. Examples of such circumstances include 1) A smurf that has played too few games to be decently matched - fewer than 30 games, 2) People intentionally losing a match, which no system can ever predict, 3) People playing on accounts they don't own.

  7. Regarding your list of questions: all of those are answered in the above. Google "Elo Booster" and see how many people are making money off of proving you wrong. Look through the ladder and count all the people in Platinum and Diamond with less than 100 games played. Comb through your friends list and see if you can find even one person who has played more than 50 games this season and is still more than 1 tier away from their previous tier. Read: https://mobalytics.gg/blog/how-to-evaluate-your-play-to-improve-guide-dunning-kruger-effect-league-of-legends/

I have been able to beat Diamond players before, so stop using that pathetic meme. The only way to know is if you want to do a 1v1 on a high leveled champion. For example Zed, I'm down, but it all depends on you. We can even talk through voice chat if you want, and have some fun and maybe even fuck around. I have Discord.

The only reason I lose doing a game where there is a smurf is that my team has no idea how to deal with that. I know how to deal with them in lane, but I still haven't mastered my MACRO play yet, so it's really hard to help my team out when he or she roams.

You serious? If Riot actually took the time to make the game fair for everyone, you would see a dramatic change in ranking. You will see many more challenges and a few bronze players. Gold should be the rank where most players should be because then there is space for the worst of the worst, who are at the bottom. Giving others the chance to be the best of the best up on the top. People who take time and dedication should be at the top while the people who don't fall. You really don't get what a rank system is. It's kinda like a civilization, we have the people who won't try what-so-ever even if you give them the chance, they are at the bottom for a reason. While people who just want to live comfortably live in a comfortable lifestyle with a comfortable job. Then there are the people who take a lot of time and dedication and rise to the top because they want to be the best. They never come late, they always work, they never take a break, and they want the best of the best. It should be easy to climb out of Bronze, but hard to get out of Gold because you need to be willing to put the time and effort into the game. With the system Riot has right now, it's easier the higher you climb. Even if your good and have taken time and dedication and you are low elo, you are not rewarded at all. Plain and simple, the old system is garbage and need change.

Here, this guy explains exactly what I'm going through. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n3f5kn7V-as-a-diamond-silver-elo-is-surprisingly-hard

It really just seems to me you don't get it. So no, your not right. You have just been babbling like a fucking idiot, I have beaten you words down twice. To top it off, I never mentioned that the system should be perfect. I merely gave a solution to a problem that can easily be fixed.

If a Diamond player says "many low elo players deserve higher elo" then the statement must be true. Truth be tolled if what he says is true, then, yes, something is wrong with the MMR system and it needs to be fixed.

For the people earning money on this shit, shame on you, taking advantage of people. You disgust me, have you no honor.

Now if you would excuse me, Mr. Lier of I played since season 1. Give me a reason to believe in anything you say and why I should take anything you wrote seriously. Because you started season 3 got Gold in season 4, then suddenly stopped playing until season 7 where you got Plat and now we are here in season 8 where your plat.

Your argument is invalid, unproven, and was easy to find mistakes in. You even had the audacity to lie to someone who checks his shit and reads before he talks. Because how the fuck would you know if the game is 50/50, how the fuck do you explain a plat play complaining about the MMR system, how do you explain a "DIAMOND" player saying that high elo is easy and low elo is hard? You do even give me any sources for anything you wrote. Same goes for Magewick, full of shit and no evidence.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

I have been able to beat Diamond players before, so stop using that pathetic meme. The only way to know is if you want to do a 1v1 on a high leveled champion. For example Zed, I'm down, but it all depends on you. We can even talk through voice chat if you want, and have some fun and maybe even fuck around. I have Discord.

The only reason I lose doing a game where there is a smurf is that my team has no idea how to deal with that. I know how to deal with them in lane, but I still haven't mastered my MACRO play yet, so it's really hard to help my team out when he or she roams.

You serious? If Riot actually took the time to make the game fair for everyone, you would see a dramatic change in ranking. You will see many more challenges and a few bronze players. Gold should be the rank where most players should be because then there is space for the worst of the worst, who are at the bottom. Giving others the chance to be the best of the best up on the top. People who take time and dedication should be at the top while the people who don't fall. You really don't get what a rank system is. It's kinda like a civilization, we have the people who won't try what-so-ever even if you give them the chance, they are at the bottom for a reason. While people who just want to live comfortably live in a comfortable lifestyle with a comfortable job. Then there are the people who take a lot of time and dedication and rise to the top because they want to be the best. They never come late, they always work, they never take a break, and they want the best of the best. It should be easy to climb out of Bronze, but hard to get out of Gold because you need to be willing to put the time and effort into the game. With the system Riot has right now, it's easier the higher you climb. Even if your good and have taken time and dedication and you are low elo, you are not rewarded at all. Plain and simple, the old system is garbage and need change.

Here, this guy explains exactly what I'm going through. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n3f5kn7V-as-a-diamond-silver-elo-is-surprisingly-hard

It really just seems to me you don't get it. So no, your not right. You have just been babbling like a fucking idiot, I have beaten you words down twice. To top it off, I never mentioned that the system should be perfect. I merely gave a solution to a problem that can easily be fixed.

If a Diamond player says "many low elo players deserve higher elo" then the statement must be true. Truth be tolled if what he says is true, then, yes, something is wrong with the MMR system and it needs to be fixed.

For the people earning money on this shit, shame on you, taking advantage of people. You disgust me, have you no honor.

Now if you would excuse me, Mr. Lier of I played since season 1. Give me a reason to believe in anything you say and why I should take anything you wrote seriously. Because you started season 3 got Gold in season 4, then suddenly stopped playing until season 7 where you got Plat and now we are here in season 8 where your plat.

Your argument is invalid, unproven, and was easy to find mistakes in. You even had the audacity to lie to someone who checks his shit and reads before he talks. Because how the fuck would you know if the game is 50/50, how the fuck do you explain a plat play complaining about the MMR system, how do you explain a "DIAMOND" player saying that high elo is easy and low elo is hard? You do even give me any sources for anything you wrote. Same goes for Magewick, full of shit and no evidence.

Okay, I'll bite. Quotes from the very thread that you referenced. The OP there says he had a hard time, but he doesn't say he couldn't do it. But here are some other quotes from that thread:

{quoted}

Yeah I've gotten my smurf to high plat and it took about 70 games with like 50 games won. You definitely have to play differently and get fed as hell and get the objectives early. I main jungle so I have to kill the turrets whenever I get a kill or the games will stall out too long. Most games on my smurf I have at least 20 kills and have to have a full build by 30 mins. If I don't, the chances of victory basically boils down to who gets caught 40 mins in the game

And another:

{quoted}

As a plat 1 player who was stuck in silver 1 for 3 months, I can kinda agree. I was kept in silver 1 because I was perma stuck at 0 LP. Some people blame afk's for their losses, but I managed to go 11 games in a row with an afk, only managing to win 2 of those games. player skill was incredibly inconsistent as you said already. The second I got out of silver, I shot up to plat in about 2 weeks. the play style changed so much in plat that i had no idea what to do for the first few weeks other than play my mains and hope for the best. It seems in plat games are decided in the first 10 minutes, and every lane has an early game champion. I see the same pool of about 25 champions every single game. To be honest I think that if you are any bit decent you can get plat, I managed to do it and this is only my first season :3

And another:

{quoted}

Sorry but I kinda have to disagree. I've been in low elo and had around 90% winrate with some 20 or such win streaks. You can always carry harder and unless you're unlucky enough to face smurfs as good as you, you should pretty much do this. Some games are unwinnable, but there are very few of those. It's too easy to reject this on your teammates, even if you couldn't win you should put the pressure on yourself and say you could carry harder, what should I have done etc. I know a lot of people that stagnate because they don't put themselves into the question.

And another:

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n3f5kn7V,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2015-11-04T10:51:48.303+0000)

It's not the truth though. I've played through several Bronze accounts through to Gold and above and I initially had the same troubles as well. The problem is that every rank plays differently. What works in Plat+ (teamwork, ganks, sustain lanes, etc.) may not work in Silver simply due to how everyone plays. It's an entirely different meta that you have to shift to. Once you learn that Silver is a one man snowball game based upon winning the 30 minutes of nonstop 1v1 fights (cuz teamfights hardly exist) and then somehow enticing your allies into following your commands it becomes extremely simple and you'll never lose games besides leaves and legit trolls... which... are unfortunately surprisingly common in Silver. I know, I've been there.

item 3340 item 3361 item 3364 item 2043 Wards. These things and clearing their things is so powerful it's ridiculous. Most Silvers won't use their trinkets let alone upgrade them. Sadly this is still true more often than not in Gold and Plat as well. Simply being able to see them and spam ping the hell out of them to get your allies attention to ambush or take caution not only saves their butts or nets you a kill, but also serves to further their trust in your leadership.

Learning objective control and taking a huge active part in it gives your team an insane advantage. Being able to lead your team where you want (knowledgeably ofc) is a huge asset not to be taken lightly. But they won't listen right? That's because you aren't listening either... to yourself. Just take a moment to listen to yourself. Imagine yourself as an egotistical know it all. Now you just got killed and it's obviously not your fault cuz ur the best afterall. Then your ignorant ally tells you "play more safe" or "build this instead". Instantly muted. Either literally or mentally muted. You just removed this ally from the game. Instead of offering help or guidance, toss those ideas out the window cuz noone wants to hear it from you you know-it-all high-level player. Instead, stroke the hell out of their ego. "Damn I saw that so lucky" or "You're fine she just got a lucky play". U blame things on things other than that player and just watch the magic. That ally is instantly healed. Boom.

Know why positive players win more games? Cuz we all circle jerk each other so much we just win through a lack of negativity. But it's not because we're positive--it's because the enemy is negative! 9 times out of 10 the enemy team has some kind of internal conflict going on. The best ones are when they /all chat it. That's basically instant victory. Read the situation and chime in with some juicy provocation. Enemy: "GG my jungler never ganks" -> You: "Lmao right" OR "Try warding? Stop blaming your jungler". The butthurt you have instilled into the target player will cause a rectal implosion so devastating it can crash their connection. Always aim for the most vulnerable link. Is it verbal abuse? Idk, is "Lmao right?" or "Stop blaming your teammates" verbally abusive? I wouldn't think so ;) Also people like to work with friends. When the team is positive, you become their temporary (or permanent) friend and they will more than likely listen to calls.

HyperTechno1 votes

{quoted}

Okay, I'll bite. Quotes from the very thread that you referenced. The OP there says he had a hard time, but he doesn't say he couldn't do it. But here are some other quotes from that thread:

And another:

And another:

And another:

Yeah, I like the last one. He gets really into details.

It's not the truth though. I've played through several Bronze accounts through to Gold and above and I initially had the same troubles as well. The problem is that every rank plays differently. What works in Plat+ (teamwork, ganks, sustain lanes, etc.) may not work in Silver simply due to how everyone plays. It's an entirely different meta that you have to shift to. Once you learn that Silver is a one man snowball game based upon winning the 30 minutes of nonstop 1v1 fights (cuz teamfights hardly exist) and then somehow enticing your allies into following your commands it becomes extremely simple and you'll never lose games besides leaves and legit trolls... which... are unfortunately surprisingly common in Silver. I know, I've been there.

Wards. These things and clearing their things is so powerful it's ridiculous. Most Silvers won't use their trinkets let alone upgrade them. Sadly this is still true more often than not in Gold and Plat as well. Simply being able to see them and spam ping the hell out of them to get your allies attention to ambush or take caution not only saves their butts or nets you a kill, but also serves to further their trust in your leadership.

Learning objective control and taking a huge active part in it gives your team an insane advantage. Being able to lead your team where you want (knowledgeably ofc) is a huge asset not to be taken lightly. But they won't listen right? That's because you aren't listening either... to yourself. Just take a moment to listen to yourself. Imagine yourself as an egotistical know it all. Now you just got killed and it's obviously not your fault cuz ur the best afterall. Then your ignorant ally tells you "play more safe" or "build this instead". Instantly muted. Either literally or mentally muted. You just removed this ally from the game. Instead of offering help or guidance, toss those ideas out the window cuz noone wants to hear it from you you know-it-all high-level player. Instead, stroke the hell out of their ego. "Damn I saw that so lucky" or "You're fine she just got a lucky play". U blame things on things other than that player and just watch the magic. That ally is instantly healed. Boom.

Know why positive players win more games? Cuz we all circle jerk each other so much we just win through a lack of negativity. But it's not because we're positive--it's because the enemy is negative! 9 times out of 10 the enemy team has some kind of internal conflict going on. The best ones are when they /all chat it. That's basically instant victory. Read the situation and chime in with some juicy provocation. Enemy: "GG my jungler never ganks" -> You: "Lmao right" OR "Try warding? Stop blaming your jungler". The butthurt you have instilled into the target player will cause a rectal implosion so devastating it can crash their connection. Always aim for the most vulnerable link. Is it verbal abuse? Idk, is "Lmao right?" or "Stop blaming your teammates" verbally abusive? I wouldn't think so ;) Also people like to work with friends. When the team is positive, you become their temporary (or permanent) friend and they will more than likely listen to calls.

He actually described me in season 6, oh I was such a stupid player. It wasn't until I had played a quarter of season 7. I changed from a flaming idiot to an actually more calm person, this doesn't mean I don't get tilted, but I have gotten better at keeping it to myself and calming down and admit to my mistakes.

He basically summons up my ranked games, except I'm a mid lane main and I never really got anywhere. So, unfortunately, I have given up on trying to climb.

Yeah, I've gotten my smurf to high plat and it took about 70 games with like 50 games won. You definitely have to play differently and get fed as hell and get the objectives early. I main jungle so I have to kill the turrets whenever I get a kill or the games will stall out too long. Most games on my smurf I have at least 20 kills and have to have a full build in 30 mins. If I don't, the chances of victory basically boil down to who gets caught 40 mins in the game.

You are completely right:

The OP there says he had a hard time, but he doesn't say he couldn't do it.

But no seriously if you do want to just fuck around and play some champs in a 1v1 I'm down for it. Because make an enemy a friend.

I think we have both hated each other a little too much, so what you say. Let's us put our differences aside and agree that we are both idiots. Your right in certain areas and I'm right in others.

[vlad-salute] Fuck I hate Vlad, such cancer. But its a smile and he looks friendly.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

I have been able to beat Diamond players before, so stop using that pathetic meme. The only way to know is if you want to do a 1v1 on a high leveled champion. For example Zed, I'm down, but it all depends on you. We can even talk through voice chat if you want, and have some fun and maybe even fuck around. I have Discord.

The only reason I lose doing a game where there is a smurf is that my team has no idea how to deal with that. I know how to deal with them in lane, but I still haven't mastered my MACRO play yet, so it's really hard to help my team out when he or she roams.

You serious? If Riot actually took the time to make the game fair for everyone, you would see a dramatic change in ranking. You will see many more challenges and a few bronze players. Gold should be the rank where most players should be because then there is space for the worst of the worst, who are at the bottom. Giving others the chance to be the best of the best up on the top. People who take time and dedication should be at the top while the people who don't fall. You really don't get what a rank system is. It's kinda like a civilization, we have the people who won't try what-so-ever even if you give them the chance, they are at the bottom for a reason. While people who just want to live comfortably live in a comfortable lifestyle with a comfortable job. Then there are the people who take a lot of time and dedication and rise to the top because they want to be the best. They never come late, they always work, they never take a break, and they want the best of the best. It should be easy to climb out of Bronze, but hard to get out of Gold because you need to be willing to put the time and effort into the game. With the system Riot has right now, it's easier the higher you climb. Even if your good and have taken time and dedication and you are low elo, you are not rewarded at all. Plain and simple, the old system is garbage and need change.

Here, this guy explains exactly what I'm going through. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n3f5kn7V-as-a-diamond-silver-elo-is-surprisingly-hard

It really just seems to me you don't get it. So no, your not right. You have just been babbling like a fucking idiot, I have beaten you words down twice. To top it off, I never mentioned that the system should be perfect. I merely gave a solution to a problem that can easily be fixed.

If a Diamond player says "many low elo players deserve higher elo" then the statement must be true. Truth be tolled if what he says is true, then, yes, something is wrong with the MMR system and it needs to be fixed.

For the people earning money on this shit, shame on you, taking advantage of people. You disgust me, have you no honor.

Now if you would excuse me, Mr. Lier of I played since season 1. Give me a reason to believe in anything you say and why I should take anything you wrote seriously. Because you started season 3 got Gold in season 4, then suddenly stopped playing until season 7 where you got Plat and now we are here in season 8 where your plat.

Your argument is invalid, unproven, and was easy to find mistakes in. You even had the audacity to lie to someone who checks his shit and reads before he talks. Because how the fuck would you know if the game is 50/50, how the fuck do you explain a plat play complaining about the MMR system, how do you explain a "DIAMOND" player saying that high elo is easy and low elo is hard? You do even give me any sources for anything you wrote. Same goes for Magewick, full of shit and no evidence.

And another:

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n3f5kn7V,comment-id=001a00010000,timestamp=2015-11-04T13:53:49.147+0000)

It's terrible advice because the OP agrees with me? Because he does. He said so himself.

That is literally exactly what I said but only more verbose. You can't play in silver elo like you're playing with other diamond players because your silver teammates will never be able to accommodate that kind of playstyle. In order to beat silver players, you need to play like a silver player, only better. And that means stomping your lane, getting massively fed, and then hard pressuring the map until you win.

And another:

{quoted}

Idk. I climbed from bronze IV to silver 1 in less than 100 games. Almost gold 5 now (currently at 84 LP). Its not hard for me, and I'm actually a player using his main account. I also currently have a 65% win rate in ranked overall. Tbh, silver is pretty easy, and thats coming from someone who isn't a smurf. I will agree that teammates can really be a dice roll on how lucky you get sometimes, but I can carry well enough regardless depending on my role (Support and jungle can be harder, but I play both regardless).

And another:

{quoted}

Dunno, went 8-2 on placements on this account and I'm about to have it Diamond. One of my losses was because I duo'd with a friend and his internet died. The other was just one of those games I couldn't carry because everyone fed so hard. I was placed G4 and got plat in like 2-3 days.

I don't find anything below plat 2 to be difficult but I'll say I hate the current elo I'm at because of all the d5 0lp lifers and the 1,000+ games played plat grinders because you can gain elo with a 51% winrate as long as you play enough games and these players are typically the worse.

And another:

{quoted}

This is only partially true though.

Silver elo is difficult if you try playing it as you do on much higher ranks, simply because your teammates play completely different. That said however, it gets much easier once you use other strategies, like the simple ones that are way less effective on higher elos.

I could keep going but I hope you get the point. Just like the Hibeki thread, this is just one high elo player whining that it took him a bit longer than he expected to climb back out of silver on a smurf, and a whole bunch of silver players jumping on the band wagon to call Elo hell.

As for lying about when I started, I did no such thing lol. Please see the screenshot of my account icons, Gold in Season 1 and Season 2:

https://i.imgur.com/sUdeTrM.jpg

But actually, I told you where you could find the proof. You conveniently ignored it. Explain this to me: If, as you say, Silver is super difficult to get through because of xyz excuse, how is it that players can run a business off of taking a low elo account and rapidly winning games to raise that account's rank?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=League+of+Legends+Elo+Boost

Some of their businesses are so successful they can afford to buy adspace on Google!

HyperTechno1 votes

-_- I got the point without the extra quotes.

Well, the picture tells us everything, so I can't really counter that. Gj keeping yourself on such a high rank. But as I have been told, season 1 was a mess and most people could get up high quite easily, but it's whatever. I didn't play season 1 so I wouldn't know.

I just don't agree with people boosting. In fact, I think its really unhealthy for the game. But I have been wrong before. I think I missed it and didn't ignore it, I just took a look at it.

I still think Riot should do some changes to the Rank system. I would get rid of the promo system because it makes it unnecessarily hard to climb, maybe add something like the Mobalytics system as well. A suggestion, I have said millions of times, to take ideas from. Neither you or anyone tried to claim it was a bad idea. So I kinda want your take on it.

The other thing would be to reward players who lost but did well or got honored by the team. Riot already do not want to base it on peoples KDA so that's out of the window, same goes for me I think it would be terrible to base peoples success on KDA. So maybe on honers. Even if you lose, your points can still be saved by getting honors.

For example: You get three honors you will get something around 10 to 25% of your points back. 2% if you get one or 4% if you get two. The rarest which is the 4 honors should be a massive point return around like 50% to 75% because then you really deserve it. Not only will this help people who their team think did well, it will also inspire people to be more honorable, and maybe "maybe" lowering the toxic bs in chat.

The LP loss could also be decreased based on how many objectives you have. Like: Drages, Rift Herald, Baron, and Towers. Making the team more focused on getting objectives. Because they will be rewarded.

I think the biggest problem Lol has is when it comes to the losing team, the issue of not rewarding them for doing good or better.

Winning the game itself is a massive reward, you get points and all the good stuff. They earned it, they won the game. But if the enemy team tried their hardest and put a lot of effort into winning the game, they get nothing in return for there hard work.

As I said:

This type of system works when you have a small group of people playing League of Legends, this is perfect for diamond and over because people are at almost the same skill level.

This statement is true, but also false. The reason for its falsehood is because, as people have stressed, the style players play is quite different from elo to elo. True for the reason that it's quite hard to match people up fair and square when 100 million people are playing the game. Since most of those millions are at the bottom. It's even harder to separate pros or just good players from lower elo games. That's why we see so many bronze or silver players and so few challenges. Most of the good people didn't get the chance to start in the early seasons when there where only a few people. I would probably be some around Gold or your level if I started in season 3. Right now many people do not get the chance to climb high, I could almost get out of Bronze in season 7 but failed to do so because I was hit by a massive losing streak or I could not get my promos finished.

It's easier said than done. You can give all bronze players the tools, tips, and tricks. 95% of those people won't make it anywhere, and 4% will just be stuck in another elo. While 1% of them goes to Plat and over, where the golden rank is to climb to diamond or even challenger.

I think its fair that only 1% of people make it to Plat and over, but still want it to go up to a 5%. The 4% should be raised to about 40% leaving only 60% of players behind.

A system can never be perfect, but they can make it 99%. The system right now is just 90%. There are just some minor mistakes that can easily be fixed and polished or made better. I don't think Riot thinks enough about there Rank system. Its good, but should be constantly fixed and polished like every champion in the game. So the rank system can work for everyone and with the stat of the game.

This may be my last comment, IDK, but let me know what you think. Because you ok, you still comment and keep me working, also I just like to debate. IDKW, but I just love to try to beat someone and have someone try to prove me wrong, it keeps me working. Sorry.

Subdue1 votes

{quoted}

-_- I got the point without the extra quotes.

Well, the picture tells us everything, so I can't really counter that. Gj keeping yourself on such a high rank. But as I have been told, season 1 was a mess and most people could get up high quite easily, but it's whatever. I didn't play season 1 so I wouldn't know.

I just don't agree with people boosting. In fact, I think its really unhealthy for the game. But I have been wrong before. I think I missed it and didn't ignore it, I just took a look at it.

I still think Riot should do some changes to the Rank system. I would get rid of the promo system because it makes it unnecessarily hard to climb, maybe add something like the Mobalytics system as well. A suggestion, I have said millions of times, to take ideas from. Neither you or anyone tried to claim it was a bad idea. So I kinda want your take on it.

The other thing would be to reward players who lost but did well or got honored by the team. Riot already do not want to base it on peoples KDA so that's out of the window, same goes for me I think it would be terrible to base peoples success on KDA. So maybe on honers. Even if you lose, your points can still be saved by getting honors.

For example: You get three honors you will get something around 10 to 25% of your points back. 2% if you get one or 4% if you get two. The rarest which is the 4 honors should be a massive point return around like 50% to 75% because then you really deserve it. Not only will this help people who their team think did well, it will also inspire people to be more honorable, and maybe "maybe" lowering the toxic bs in chat.

The LP loss could also be decreased based on how many objectives you have. Like: Drages, Rift Herald, Baron, and Towers. Making the team more focused on getting objectives. Because they will be rewarded.

I think the biggest problem Lol has is when it comes to the losing team, the issue of not rewarding them for doing good or better.

Winning the game itself is a massive reward, you get points and all the good stuff. They earned it, they won the game. But if the enemy team tried their hardest and put a lot of effort into winning the game, they get nothing in return for there hard work.

As I said:

This statement is true, but also false. The reason for its falsehood is because, as people have stressed, the style players play is quite different from elo to elo. True for the reason that it's quite hard to match people up fair and square when 100 million people are playing the game. Since most of those millions are at the bottom. It's even harder to separate pros or just good players from lower elo games. That's why we see so many bronze or silver players and so few challenges. Most of the good people didn't get the chance to start in the early seasons when there where only a few people. I would probably be some around Gold or your level if I started in season 3. Right now many people do not get the chance to climb high, I could almost get out of Bronze in season 7 but failed to do so because I was hit by a massive losing streak or I could not get my promos finished.

It's easier said than done. You can give all bronze players the tools, tips, and tricks. 95% of those people won't make it anywhere, and 4% will just be stuck in another elo. While 1% of them goes to Plat and over, where the golden rank is to climb to diamond or even challenger.

I think its fair that only 1% of people make it to Plat and over, but still want it to go up to a 5%. The 4% should be raised to about 40% leaving only 60% of players behind.

A system can never be perfect, but they can make it 99%. The system right now is just 90%. There are just some minor mistakes that can easily be fixed and polished or made better. I don't think Riot thinks enough about there Rank system. Its good, but should be constantly fixed and polished like every champion in the game. So the rank system can work for everyone and with the stat of the game.

This may be my last comment, IDK, but let me know what you think. Because you ok, you still comment and keep me working, also I just like to debate. IDKW, but I just love to try to beat someone and have someone try to prove me wrong, it keeps me working. Sorry.

Regarding Promos: Honestly, I don't really care one way or the other. In a macro sense, they don't really matter. MMR is what matters. If your MMR keeps rising, eventually you're forced into promo after promo until you symbolicly win one. So there's no point sweating about it. However, promos were added so that forgiveness could also be added. Right now, let's say that you just barely claw your way from Silver to Gold. Right now, you have to win a series, but after you do, your MMR can fall all the way down to Silver 4 before you are in risk of dropping back into silver. In Season 1, there weren't any promos. If you won a game at 1490 MMR, you'd cross 1500 and you'd be Gold. Lose the next game and poof, you're back in Silver. This caused people to get to a target tier and then just stop, for fear of losing it.

Regarding Boosting: I don't agree with boosting in the slightest, nor was I suggesting that you go get yourself boosted. My point was merely that the existence of boosters is clear evidence that good players can climb out of low Elo.

Regarding tying LP or MMR to anything other than killing the Nexus: There is only one decision you can make in LoL which is absolutely correct 100% of the time. Everything else, there is some degree of ambiguity. For example, taking Cloud Drake. In general, it's a good a idea. Is it a good idea to be at Cloud Drake when the enemy is at Baron? Probably not. Dying, usually a bad idea right? Well what if you're the 0/5/15 Alistar at 1/4 HP and you're diving into 3 enemies to Headbutt/Pulverize them so that your 8/0/12 Vayne can get away? When you start tying LP or MMR to things which aren't always conducive to winning, you start creating incentive for less than optimal play.

Regarding Honors: Honor was introduced to reward good behavior, not skilled play. Skilled play is rewarded by progression. I think it's important to keep the two separated. Also, in general I think the IFS is more forgiving than I'd like.

Regard Platinum and how many players are in there: I think we should add a Wood Tier underneath Bronze, and a Styrofoam Tier under that, just to give visibility. Players enter at Silver, which is why that's basically the middle of the rankings, as most people are average and rarely stray far from the center. If we added additional Tiers below Bronze, you'd be able to see the full spread, and it would look like a bell curve.

Lastly, I just want to add I don't consider myself mechanically skilled. I like to play simple champions, and I like to have as few skillshots as possible, because I'm bad at them. God awful. Last hitting, not great at that either. My primary role is jungler, and I've played probably 95% of all my ranked games from the last two seasons as a jungler. My advice to you, from someone who's mechanically terrible at this game, is that you can get to Platinum while being mechanically terrible. What you need is game knowledge. What I mean by that is that you can win in Bronze, in Silver, and even in Gold by simple being at the right place at the right time, and getting your team there too. There are free kills, free towers, free Dragons, and free Barons all strewn over the lower elos, waiting to be picked.

Lord of Math2 votes

Chances are that you are better than your teammates at certain aspects of the game, but they are probably better than you at other things. I tend to have better Macro than my teammates, but I am not nearly as aggressive as them, and I knew that before I started using Mobalytics.

HyperTechno1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Math,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FyKsgptU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-08T04:35:56.389+0000)

Chances are that you are better than your teammates at certain aspects of the game, but they are probably better than you at other things. I tend to have better Macro than my teammates, but I am not nearly as aggressive as them, and I knew that before I started using Mobalytics.

Exactly.

LyingOnLine1 votes

ITT: OP fails to understand that ‘50 +/- 1’ is the goal of matchmaking, and not necessarily the reality.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by HyperTechno

Why I got furious when NB said "I hate Lol, the company, and the community."
Discuss the Boards45 comments
29
votes
I feel sorry for Riot.
Memes & Games25 comments
27
votes
Plz, Riot!! Warring Kindoms Quinn.
Concepts & Creations8 comments
19
votes
Riot and their Pax convention.
Memes & Games6 comments
17
votes
Hey Riot, people want Magic Pen removed, let us do it to Armor Pen too then.
Gameplay32 comments
13
votes
Elderwood Quinn. (Holy F, is this amazing!)
Concepts & Creations6 comments
12
votes