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Problems of the new Veigar announcement

DaFinishGame·2/13/2015, 4:09:43 PM·3 votes·732 views

What's on quote is from Riot

Q - Baleful Strike Changed to a skill shot that stops on the second unit hit Grants 1 AP for each unit killed Range increased to 850 from 650 Cooldown changed to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 from 8/7/6/5/4 By amping up the AP farming mini-game on his Q, we're creating a new path for Veigar players to achieve their dream of pressing a single button and watching an enemy disappear. As it turns out though, this worked a bit too well, and pretty early in playtesting, we found that Veigar was reliably deleting people a bit too early in the game, so we had to make some small adjustments to his ult.

-Skillshot->more creeps (if you can land it to get 2 creeps instead of 1), but if they're gonna move then they could even dodge that. You're not sure of hitting the enemy and since Event Horizon is delayed it's easyly dodgeable just by walking away from it. Dark Matter doesn't help as it's delayed too. You WON'T hit anyone at 850 range as everyone will dodge

-(on live)Targetted->less/equal creeps. You're sure to hit the enemy even if he flashes behind you (which is a problem as Veigar's mobility is "non-existent") so you have a 1 Q ahead than the skillshot and as a squishy-nuke-mage one Q can make the difference. You're actually gonna hit the creep you want.

R - Primordial Burst AP Ratio reduced to 1.0 from 1.2 (Ratio on enemy's AP unchanged) Mana Cost flattened to 125 at all ranks from 125/175/225 Cooldown reduced to 120/100/80 from 130/110/90 While 0.2 is a sizeable hit to his Ult's ratio, I want to stress that Veigar is getting quite a bit more AP from his Q in this version than on live and reassure any worried Veigar players out there that we're still seeing those beefy 2K+ Primordial Bursts in the late game with this version.

No sense to amp down the R cause of Q pierce as the creeps are always the same number.

From here, we should move on to talking about Event Horizon and how it fits into the picture. With the current version of Event Horizon, the optimal use is for the Veigar player to place his Event Horizon such that it immediately stuns his opponent. This leads to the ability feeling like a particularly awkward skill shot with almost no dodgability provided to the opponent once the Veigar player masters aiming it. When we took a step back and thought about what the ability was really trying to get at, we saw the ideal Event Horizon being more about trapping your opponent in a cage for Veigar to torment than simply about stunning a dude at 1025 range. In the interest of pushing towards this ideal, we've added a delay and warning particle to Event Horizon to encourage Veigar to use it more to trap opponents than to immediately stun them. E - Event Horizon Has a 0.75 second delay with a warning particle before the walls appear Mana Cost decreased to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120 Cooldown reduced to 18/17/16/15/14 from 20/19/18/17/16 Range increased to 700 from 650

delayed by 0.75->none will get stunned. People normally have a reaction of about 0.250s-0.300s more or less. When you know you're focussed or in 1v1 against Veigar, your reaction time is faster from 0.160s (for godly reaction players) to 0.250s (for normal players). By that you have plenty of time to flash away or simply walk away if you're already in the edge. if you can't go over and you're caught in the cage you have plenty of time to get that you're in the cage and start dancing in it and dodge Dark Matter and if you can even the Baleful Strike. Even if you can't dodge you can still flash out of the cage. If someone is chasing you if you cast event horizon he can try to kill you and end up in the cage (non stunned) or he can stop chase you and go back safely. Event Horizon = useless

This definitely represents a shift in how Veigar uses this ability, but our belief is that this version of the spell is much healthier and leads to more fun interactions between Veigar and his hapless victims. Instead of blowing up a prone target, Veigar traps his prey in a chamber of horrors and shoots Baleful Strikes at them and drops Dark Matters where they have limited space to dodge. Speaking of Dark Matter, meteors are pretty cool and frankly, Veigar doesn't get to drop quite enough of them on people's heads. W - Dark Matter Mana Cost reduced to 70/75/80/85/90 from 70/80/90/100/110 Cooldown reduced to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 from 10 at all ranks

This is just a buff, an useless buff as you'll only use this on creeps to clear faster (but you will clear with your q at this point as it pierce right?), or on the rare event that anyone will get stunned by your E.

Conclusion: Veigar is gonna get killed, high skilled players could still use it well against low skilled players, but that's it. Nonsense is required pick this champ

Solutions: Q -> Big NO. Leave it as it is right now W-> it's not that big change, your choice E-> less delay at least, 0.75 is too much R-> whatever, you made a nerf that is useless, your choice

Let's see how it will go. And yeah, i know that what's written from Riot it's not a final decision

6 Comments

Lord Dusteon2/13/2015, 4:26:13 PM3 votes

I kinda like the Q changes; he can farm better when behind, though his poking was weakened a lot. W is meh, since as you said its only used to clear creeps. E change makes W basically nonexistant (Press W, they either walk to the side and dodge it or hit a stun but still dodge it). R is a bit weaker but that's k, but overall this seems like a heavy nerf to Veigar (his Q is dodgeable, E is not guaranteed and thus makes W nonexistant).

The Paulrus2/13/2015, 4:30:08 PM1 votes

Q-> I'm not totally opposed to it as Veigar can get more early game creeps since he'll be able to hit 2 for 1 which will reduce the mana spent, and with the reduced CD, it'll give it more spammability early on. Mix that with making him being able to farm and poke the enemy with the same shot, and that's a win in my book.

W-> Needs to have an increase in projectile speed moreso than a decrease in mana/CD.

E-> This is the one I really have a problem with. If you're going to give it a .75s delay, you need to make the diameter of the event horizon circle about 25% larger. It might actually make it useful, since your opponent won't be able to just walk away with ease. Either reduce the delay to about 0.5s or make the diameter about 25% larger. Or make it apply a 25% slow to all enemies inside the circle.

R-> An annoying nerf, but the reduced CD and mana costs are a plus, giving him a bit more mid-game strength.

All in all, I think this is a decent start by riot, but I think there are some concerns to address, especially with his E.

Edpon Kenshir2/13/2015, 4:33:25 PM1 votes

I like the idea of the Q changes. The R is an ok nerf if you ask me. The delay on E is just flat wrong... it at leasts needs a slow added to it if they are going to make it a delayed wall but that still just doesnt fit very well. I think about things like Viktor, Soraka, and Thresh. If its a wall based ability it needs to be immediate.. if its a area ability it needs to have a slow other wise as said people will just dodge it. Thats why so many Veigar players had to learn how to land it perfectly in the first place as people just dodged/avoided the wall.

Krully2/13/2015, 4:34:06 PM1 votes

yup one big nerf to the little guy.