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Low risk/High reward champions that need to reworked/nerfed

RagingEnglishmen··7 votes·2,216 views

So whats everyone's thoughts on certain champions that are pretty much low risk/high rewards? Champions like Master Yi, Jax or Garen will never get a rework due to them mainly been used in low tiers such as silver ect.? I myself am a silver player and from the lower end of the ELO that doesn't rage every match i think it's a serious problem, mainly because some champions are really unbalanced, and like a lot of us, we don't know what to do when a 5/1 Master Yi tower dives you and just alphas his way to dodging all of your skill shots.

Many of these sort of champions might not be used in high ELO, but seriously need their kits looked at, many champions can be balanced out just through 1 or 2 skill changes. So here is a little list of champions that i personally think need sorting out to balance out low ELO more and allow us silver/gold players to enjoy a game without any unbalanced mechanics:

Master Yi - He has true damage and a get out of jail free card, turn his Q into a skill shot, this means if he misses, he really screws up, and atleast this way he is no longer low risk, but high risk.

Garen - For a tank, his damage needs a solid nerf, he has movement speed, armor, HP regen ect. No champion should really have it all, as far as he goes, nerf his damage or revamp his passive to make up for what he's got. I've heard people saying "He is high risk, he has to commit to fights", but doesn't every champ have to commit to get a kill?

Fizz - He's all in, he does have a risk, but he's effective at all stages of the game and can trade with anyone, generally at any level, and usually uncontested at level 1

Darius - He's a massive bane right now vs top laners and he seriously needs his damage lowered because of how much blood damage he deals. I've not played him in a long time, but when i did, he's the only champion i've used where i've NEVER lost a single match.

Yasuo - In this, i'd say only his E CD needs sorting, have a small delay vs when he can dash through minions.

Jax - Another hitter that once he gets his hands on you, you might as well go AFK, not only does he not have a single skill shot, 8/10 games i've been in, the Jax has won just through his E and you're dead in 3 hits pretty much, i tried everything but can never get away from a Jax, his overall stats need nerfing.

Illaoi - If there is a overpowered top lane bully, it's this lass. I don't see her often for whatever reason, but if there is a queen of the top lane, it's her. She's a flat out lane bully, i've never won vs a Illaoi, and that's since she came out. don't matter who i'm using, she cannot be contested.

In short, riot needs to nerf damage of the tanks, because they're tanks, more and more champs have skill shots, and the face rolls such as Yi ect. don't.

There is a serious issue here, riot nerfs champs that need buffing, and buffs champions that need nerfing.

Keep in mind i am a low ELO player, only in silver, and champions like Jax are making my climb really tough.

Also can anyone explain to my why Kinderd is seen in high elo but not lower, she's really good.

25 Comments

HommeGoujon2 votes

I think the solution is not to change these champs but to help players understand how to play against them.

As Renekton, I don't have too much trouble laning vs all of these guys (except for Garen but I think it's just psychological lol we all have our issues). Darius is scary but if you follow certain rules he can be dealt with. Yi will die very easily if you can stun him and he's not very scary early (IMO). For Illaoi, same thing as Darius, she's scary but in the end, she has clear weaknesses.

If you like to play top lane, I'd suggest to play Renekton and follow RTO (RenektonTopOnly), he's made a matchup guide where he gives small tips against each champ you can play against: when to play safe, when to play aggressive, this kind of stuff.

twitch.tv/rto_lol

He's got a youtube channel as well with many guides, VOD reviews, a lot of matchups. What I like is how positive he is.

Give it a try, you might like it.

RagingEnglishmen1 votes

I'll have to give it a shot when i go into the top lane, although i'm more of a mid/support player so :)

But ty man :)

Götterdämmerung2 votes

Master Yi is a high risk high reward champion.

Götterdämmerung1 votes

But yes, I think low risk/high reward champions need a nerf or two.

RagingEnglishmen2 votes

Yes, yes they do!

AR URF3 votes

{quoted}

Master Yi is a high risk high reward champion.

high risk? every time I see yi, he gets a triple kill and usually gets out 50% of the time. High risk champ would look something like LeeSin Vayne JarvanIV

Götterdämmerung1 votes

If he gets behind he is useless though.

AR URF2 votes

{quoted}

If he gets behind he is useless though.

you can say that about all champs. You can also say the opposite. if X champ gets fed, x champ will be a problem.

Götterdämmerung2 votes

Not at all, Illoai for a quick example can still do damage if she is behind. As matter of fact, the most risky type of champions would be your assassins. A super behind Bard on your team can still do well but a super behind Rengar on your team means you are really facing a 4v5. Another reason why Yi is high risk champion is the fact that he gets shutdown by cc hard. Also Lee Sin is not a high risk champion. He is a bruiser like Irelia. If you know his kit well, you will do well no matter what is on the enemy team. If you don't know his kit well, you will most likely fail. The "risk" is based off of knowledge in that area. So I don't count that as a high risk champion. Master Yi on the other hand has practically no kit in a sense because all of his abilities just makes Yi kill the Enemy faster. Another reason why Lee Sin is not a high risk champion is the fact that he is a early game champion. Master Yi needs to scale into the game unlike Lee Sin, who falls off late game. Plus if Vayne is a high risk, every marksman in the game is a high risk champion. Vayne is a lane bully and a hyper carry! I would say that Twitch would be more high risk because he loses lane, but can 1v5 the enemy team if he is ahead.

AR URF3 votes

{quoted}

Not at all, Illoai for a quick example can still do damage if she is behind. As matter of fact, the most risky type of champions would be your assassins. A super behind Bard on your team can still do well but a super behind Rengar on your team means you are really facing a 4v5. Another reason why Yi is high risk champion is the fact that he gets shutdown by cc hard. Also Lee Sin is not a high risk champion. He is a bruiser like Irelia. If you know his kit well, you will do well no matter what is on the enemy team. If you don't know his kit well, you will most likely fail. The "risk" is based off of knowledge in that area. So I don't count that as a high risk champion. Master Yi on the other hand has practically no kit in a sense because all of his abilities just makes YI kill the Enemy faster. Another reason why Lee Sin is not a high risk champion is the fact that he is a early game champion. Master Yi needs to scale into the game unlike Lee Sin, who falls off late game. Plus if Vayne is a high risk, every marksman in the game is a high risk champion. Vayne is a lane bully and a hyper carry! I would say that Twitch would be more high risk because he loses lane, but can 1v5 the enemy team if he is ahead.

Oh yeah I forgot about her.

Götterdämmerung1 votes

But I agree that this game could use a little less damage.

RagingEnglishmen2 votes

I can't say J4 is really high risk, but i would say J4 is really balanced, he's just a tank/fighter and his dmg is not out of this world, and he can tank a fair amount and still die, yet still offering plenty for said player. Lee Sin & Vayne are high risk though, i agree with you on that.

RagingEnglishmen2 votes

Dude, he's not though, his dmg is stupidly high due to his true damage and gets an extension on his ult per kill, he's one of the reasons why chain CC is there, but in low elo, teams don't sync as well.

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

Low risk ??? and you list Yi, Garen & Fizz :o

So here is a little list of champions that i personally think need sorting out to balance out low ELO more and allow us silver/gold players to enjoy a game without any unbalanced mechanics:

Your main issue is your game understanding here. I really think you shouldnt focus on balance at your level. Cause the ones listed as low risk are only low cause at your elo players dont punish these picks.

RagingEnglishmen2 votes

I know i still have a heck ton to learn about this game, it's the reason why i'm in silver, but even if i punish said pick (I.E Garen), and I'm the only one punishing him for it, he's gonna go else where to someone else who he can rack kills on, come back and floor me, i know this because i've experienced it multiple times, as a result i've lost due to another players lack of understanding the game(Which happens, nothing is perfect), yet as a result now I'm paying the price for another player, the only way around this is to nerf said champion so I'm not punished for someone elses mistake, there is a lack of balance with these champions, the only other alt is for riot themselves to slap out tutorials or links for players so they learn how to fight said champs.

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

and I'm the only one punishing him for it, he's gonna go else where to someone else who he can rack kills on, come back and floor me,

Its the part of the game. Thanks God, when you lose lane you can still recover on other lanes. And it depend of your pick

yet as a result now I'm paying the price for another player, the only way around this is to nerf said champion so I'm not punished for someone elses mistake,

No. Even if they nerf him, you'll still pay for it. Cause the Garen outrotate you. If the Garen roam you ping hard on other lanes (direct on their lane, the danger ping not the missing one). Ping HARD, then ping Garen directly.

Clearly the balance have nothing to do here. I could play a weak champ like Wukong or worse... like Volibear lose lane but being fed cause i have better wave management and better rotation than my opponnent. Garen is weak champ, assuming you play meta, he's not an issue. And if you play off meta, you fault for harming yourself... but honestly even if garen win lane he usualy lose game cause he has low impact in teamfight and low map pressure.

CaptVqlsungr3 votes

Um... Garen is S tier in low Elo. What are you talking about? But I agree that Yi and Fizz are both high risk champions on the other hand. As a Master Yi main though...

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

{quoted}

Um... Garen is S tier in low Elo.

Thats what i say, he's trash when you know how to play this game.

tehechounpolvazo2 votes

It doesn't make sense to balance the game around low elo's. That's just saying that people shouldn't learn how to play against or around certain champs. Their win rates are also not especially high in low elos, so it's not like its a big problem.

The biggest contributing factor of all these champs that you're not getting, that is the reason they seem so strong in low elo, is that their simple. Players in lower elo that don't have mechanics SHOULD be playing simpler champs, and if thats what these people are doing to climb, good 4 them.

It's always going to be easier to be the garen and win fights, than to outplay him on a more complicated mechanical champ, thats just the nature of league and is going to be like that no matter what elo.

RagingEnglishmen1 votes

No, but the fact is these champs are simply hard to deal with than some mechanically advanced champions such as Lee Sin, Orianna ect.

You say that lower elo players should play simpler champs, yet my knowledge of Orianna is amazing for my elo, i know all of her CD's, heck I'm the only one who hides her ball inside the map, i know all the placements, yet when a Yi dives me, and i pour in all my CC + both summoners, he still walks away with the kill, the point I'm making is, as high damage champion he should scale into late game, make his early game weaker, hence the name of the post. I get that mechanically advanced champs are more flexible vs the simpler champs, but it doesn't justify the insane damage they can rack out. One of my best mates knows Lee Sin like i know Orianna, and i've watched him lose hard to a Darius before, the jukes, all the outplays, and he still got wrecked. If they nerfed or reworked these champs, it wouldn't be easier, but more balanced.

Minimac20001 votes

Uh, they just buffed illaoi, and yes I agree she's almost as cancer to play against as a ranged, but she doesn't really need kit changes any more than the rest of top lane cancer

RagingEnglishmen1 votes

She's just a total nightmere to be honest.

Minimac20001 votes

Basically these champs plus a few others are essentially game knowledge checks. Dealing with darius: As long as your team has eyes and legs (aka they don't just stand next to Darius) you outscale him hard on anyone, unless you are a ranged and then you already win... so 1.play safe and don't worry about losing cs 2. Short trades are key, Darius isn't scary whatsoever without his passive stacked. If you are playing a fighter not a tank, take advantage of that 3. If you don't have your disengage/escape up don't ever get within his apprehend range you will just lose that trade hard, bc he gets 3 free stacks and autos 2x as you try to get away 4. In late game, ignore him unless he has passive stacked or is literally right on top of you. If neither are the case you can just walk away/focus fire his carries bc he's useless Illaoi: In lane, stand behind minions and don't get hit by e at any cost it's almost as bad for you as a blitz pull with the zoning power it gives while he's landed one. If you get hit just break and dodge the slams but you lose half a wave of cs most times this happens Out of lane: don't fight her in her safe space (when she's ulting) that's it

RagingEnglishmen1 votes

I'll keep that in mind for when i next fight these two, cheers.

ROYALR3IGN1 votes

But none of these guys are tanks? Yi, Fizz, Yasuo, Jax, they're fighters/assassins occasionally bruiser. Darius, Garen, and Illoai are juggernauts if I'm not mistaken. And all of them have weaknesses that keep them out of higher level play save for a few OTPs or at least abused.

Yi, similar to an ADC needs lots of farm and gold to be good. Very item dependant, weak early to most jg, and will bascially not be able to gank as well as any other jg. So to beat him, don't let him hit late, and use your jg to crush the early game so he doesn't get a late game.

Garen, easily kited, and possesses no real hard cc. He has a telegraphed move speed boost and high cooldowns early. Don't be afraid to trade with him pre-9 if you see him blow his q or e on minions. Post his super healing buff, do not trade with him. Either all in him or leave him alone so he doesn't get the benefit of his passive.

Fizz, loses to most pre six, E is on a long cd so it might be a good idea to shove him in so hes forced to use it to clear or eat a lot of minion damage and poke from whatever champion you're playing. Post six he becomes much more dangerous, you need to respect him or hes going to get fed off you.

Darius is like Garen only he hasn't got a gap closer except for his pull with can be baited out. he's weak to kite and poke if you dont' let him hit you with his Q at the sweet spot range. You should be able to survive lane against him if he's using his q to wave clear. Push him in too, and ward up so you don't get ganked.

Yasuo, similar to Yi, and is item dependant. Pay attention to his items relative to yours. He shouldn't be able to catch you off guard. A single auto will pop his shield. His windwall is also on something of a 25 sec cd at level 1 so if you can bait it out you've negated a 25% of his kit.

Jax, he's dangerous in long fights. If you want to beat him you gotta play like a wuss and poke him. You also need to understand all of his spells early have really long cooldowns so don't be afraid to poke him if you see him use his spells. Do not engage in long fights with him as the longer the fights go the faster he autos you.

Illoai, clear her tentacles as they spawn. Dodge her rather slow spirit pull and you should be okay. She has one mobility spell and its on her ult, she is also weak to poke until she gets a death's dance.

Point being none of these guys are tanks, and you have to adjust your playstyle to them if they pick after you. If you pick after them, make sure the champ you pick has a way to abuse their weaknesses otherwise you're just asking to lose your lane.

That's not to say facing anyone of these guys in lane doesn't tilt me off the face of the earth cause I hate the playstyle I have to play against them but its not because they're unbeatable.

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