BF Sword NEEDS a component item

HuskyKurai··4 votes·2,190 views

TL;DR The items to build the Infinity Edge have less risk behind them with varying prices and power then the Bloodthirsters low power, low cost and high power, high cost component parts. If the BF Sword has an item it is built from then the Infinity Edge will not be the dominant AD first buy item all the time. (Make it the pickaxe because it would fit)

Most of us know that the Infinity Edge was recently nerfed because of its power and popularity. The Bloodthirster is supposed to be a good counter to it with a consistent healing effect to negate the critical damage, along with a bubble shield and healing off minions/jungle creeps but building the BT creates a risky situation before it's even built. (Essence Reaver/Mercurial also fall into a similar issue but BT is picked more so the BT will be explained. Two birds with one stone in a way. Maybe three)

The Infinity Edge comes in three parts. 730 Cloak of Agility, 875 Pickaxe and 1550 BF Sword. When laning turns bad and you are forced to recall or you die, the Pickaxe is a common first buy. It's decent damage, boosts the damage of AD scaling abilities and helps with last hitting creeps. If laning works in your favor then you will probably get the BF Sword first for more damage. The only time you would not be able to do this is if you die early, can't kill champions or last hit properly.

The Bloodthirster comes in two parts. 800 Vampiric Scepter and 1550 BF Sword. Following in the IE's tracks it seems simple. If you can't get the BF Sword when you are back at the fountain then get the Vampiric Scepter. The problem with The Bloodthirster starts with this. 10 damage and 10% life steal seem useful for sustain compared to a pickaxe but that 10% is reduced with a champion/minions armor and also heals based on your own damage. A half way leveled ADC at level 9 has an average 75 base damage. Add in 10 damage from the Vampiric and you get 85. Reduce that 85 from the targets armor and then 10% of whatever is left over is what you're healed for. Plus you will probably not have 75 base damage because you will not have reached level 9 by the time you are forced to buy the Vampiric Scepter in the first place.

But this means the Pickaxe is in the same boat isn't it? The pickaxe has 15 more damage over the Vampiric Scepter which is also reduced as well but it's a difference of 15 (ad) and 10 (ls). Reduce them both by the same percent and the 15 is still going to negate 10% when the enemies total AD is not even at 100 yet.

** What would happen to the Infinity Edge if the BF Sword was built out of something?** If it was built out of a Pickaxe then it would allow the Mercurial, Bloodthirster and Essence Reaver to be more desirable items to be built early on. You would not have to sit and wait for 1550 gold when you need to have items to win your lane, if not defend it. The IE would just boil down to someone not thinking and 'wasting' 200 gold on a pair of pickaxes rather then upgrading the first pickaxe into a BF Sword. Not that you would lose anything other then an item slot and gaining the option to change one of the two Pickaxe's into something else, if the situation calls for a different item, over having a BF Sword that is just waiting to be turned into the Infinity Edge and not having enough gold to instead, purchase a needed item. (Frozen mallet, Zephyr, Maw of Malmortius, Last Whisper)

So as another sort of TL;DR, Make the BF Sword build out of a Pickaxe and the power of some item parts over others will shift significantly. Powerful items will not be ignored due to a players lack of funds from poor laning and we shouldn't see another item nerf because it got too popular from the power of its parts alone.

32 Comments

Done254 votes

By this point I don't see why we can't do this for all items. Amp tome -> Blasting wand -> Needlessly large rod Longsword -> Pickaxe -> B. F. Sword.

HuskyKurai1 votes

I can agree with the Blasting into the NLR but not the Amp tome and Long Sword part. Riot tries to have average stat items as a first form items so they will not clutter up the build paths too much. If everything was made out of Amps and Swords respectively then people would be waiting in base for that extra 25 gold rather then getting into lane and defending it. Also the 400-500 gold gap gives players a reason to not just throw themselves at an enemy because they want to back and get their book and force the enemy to leave as well. An average player should be able to collect 860/875 gold before needing to back once while the 1550 and 1600 route is much tougher to manage.

Done251 votes

The thing is that I think we need tier three defence items as well. Half the problem with the more durable characters is that they hit 35~40 min and they have all six items because if how cheap their stuff is. Meanwhile people with Infinity Edge or Bloodthirstier are equally powerful, but still have a spare slot or two!

Cloth armor -> Chain vest -> Plate armor (60~70 armorish)

Then we could make things like Thornmail: Chain Vest + Plate Armor = 150 armor

HuskyKurai1 votes

We had something like that back in S2. Force of Nature with the Warmogs healing passive and 76 Magic resist. Season 3 had the Bulwark but the problem with them is that anyone could get them and having a huge MR resistance and Armor resistance doesn't really help when it's on an ADC. ADC's of course don't have the best abilities that scale with ad. The AP's usually have them all scale with AP or just deal magic damage which is amplified on Magic penetration boots/liandries/abyssal. Then there's the fact that ranged champs probably don't have MR per level. (not sure if there's any with exceptions). Some melee's also don't have a per level resistance and even then Armor is always higher on a champions stats then magic resistance will be. A lot of damage is also given from the Statikk shiv dealing critical magic damage when people build armor to fight an ADC.

Done251 votes

What? Your post jumped all o er the place. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

HuskyKurai1 votes

I'm saying that very high defense items are going to be too high. They will just push out other items that have unique effects. Why bother with a Frozen Mallet when Warmogs is more hp and hp regen. It's got a slow effect but if you have enough stick then you won't need it. Why use Zephyr when the Phantom Dancer can attack just as fast and comes with criticals? Why shouldn't one person on your team buy a Runic Bulwark when it provides a giant aura of free stats that beat every other tank item? Then they removed the bulwark because it was too good.

Ryaduesu3 votes

Don't know if it should be pickaxe, but I agree BF needs an item to build into it.

HuskyKurai2 votes

The pickaxe is already used for the IE, Hydra and Maw which are highly effective AD items so it makes sense to just use the Pickaxe rather then making a new item that might have more or less then 25 AD. More AD means more cost compared to the Pickaxe. Less is less which creates the same issue but on a smaller scale.

Cindikle2 votes

It's meant to be a power buy. Lets not give ADC's more power.

HuskyKurai2 votes

How are ADC's getting more power if they can already buy a Pickaxe for 875 gold as it is? This just makes BT's build path smoother like the IE which has a nice transition. As for top lane many AD melee's can just build the Pickaxe and get the Hydra already so that just becomes item preference.

Cindikle2 votes

They idea is that it holds off their power till they can buy it. If they can buy it sooner, they get that power sooner.

HuskyKurai2 votes

Welcome to the Infinity Edge. May I take your 5% critical chance? The IE became the top pick because it has low risks when being built out of all the BF Sword items. Being forced back still let you have the 875 Pickaxe while anyone trying to build a BT/Merc/Reaver had to wait for the same, if not less damage. BT can heal but the IE cancels it out evenly. Merc is magic resistance and clense so the IE will over power it in damage. Reaver is less sustain and the IE will also over power it in damage.

If power should be held back then the Pickaxe should be removed from the IE recipe.

Cindikle1 votes

IE became popular because hypercarries became popular. Being the strong item a hypercarry can take, as well as the fact it got buffed, it became a first built item. The ADC game doesn't include them in the mid game as much anymore.

IE needs no help in being bought. BF is a choice depending on your champion. Reaver could use some help. But not in this way. Scimitar is an odd item that I think should be changed into an MR item for everyone. (Hp, mr, active)

Taking Pickaxe instead of BF sword puts off the BF sword. If your enemy saves up for the BF sword and you went back early for the Pickaxe, they have the advantage.

If you're forced back and get the pickaxe. Your BF sword is delayed in it's power.

The item is intended to be a power buy. Same as NLR. The items it's connected to are not to be easily built into. Same with the BF sword. I'd argue that Reaver needs love. But that's a different issue.

HuskyKurai1 votes

The IE wasn't buffed which made it popular. The fact that you could get it easier then a BT and the fact that it was crit damage is what made it popular and got it nerfed. Anyone getting a BF over Pickaxe on the IE is an advantage while the BT does not have that option. Its either find a way to hold out for a BF Sword, don't buy anything after you are forced to back/die or get a Vampiric Scepter. The NLR has stronger items that it can build into. The Blasting Wand is half of a NLR. This is the same as a Pickaxe being half of a BF Sword. In the concept of a BT/Reaver/Merc it's like having an Amplifying Tomb and NLR recipe. Either you buy a weak book that doesn't give much or you have to survive in lane and farm for a lot longer. The issue is that forcing out someone who is building an IE isn't as much of a problem then someone building a BT. You get forced out and buy a Pickaxe. You force the enemy out and they come back with a Vampiric or nothing because they are saving for a BF Sword. Who is screwed over in the end?

Learn 2 Swim2 votes

TLDR I am an ADC main and I want to be even more OP

HuskyKurai2 votes

Well ask Riot to give more damage to ADC items. Asking for that won't happen though.

Ariaflux1 votes

I'm not sure if I understand correct. You are proposing to change the recipe of IE to 2 x Pickaxe and Cloak of Agility and nerf its stats accordingly?

HuskyKurai2 votes

Nerfing the IE was never said at all. As I stated in the tl;dr, if the BF Sword is made out of a pickaxe then there is less pressure on anyone who wants to build the BT/Merc/Reaver over the IE due to a lack of funds. The recipe technically would not change but the BF swords would change.

Ariaflux1 votes

I don't see how that works. The build paths for every item remains the same, except it's easier to build BFS now. Why would anyone not build IE first item still?

HuskyKurai1 votes

Diversity. If your a short ranged ADC and your enemy is caitlyn then how are you going to survive in lane with a support who cannot heal and an Infinity Edge that isn't helping because you are being out ranged. Why do people build BoRK on Vayne when the IE exists? Why is someone building Phantom Dancer and not the Statikk Shiv? Why is Ezreal not going blue ez? Because Diversity.

Ariaflux1 votes

I understand your point now, which is basically IE was rushed because it has an easier build path (Pickaxe instead of BFS). Well, if this assumption is correct, then yes, your idea would help. However, I think people are building IE first because it's plainly better, not because it's easier to build (it plays a smaller part).

HuskyKurai1 votes

Better isn't exactly the right word. BT and IE are going to counter each other 50/50. That's why they increased the life steal of the Bloodthirster when they changed the swords around and gave the IE back 10 damage. Now with 20% its chance to crit is less which weakens its overall damage vs someone using a BT, who will just get more hp back before the next critical hit comes out.

Ariaflux1 votes

Possibly, I haven't done any calcs so it could be true, although instinctively I'm doubting that 20% LS will offset 20% crit chance + 50% crit dmg.

In any case, I don't think it's right to compare just IE vs BT, because for almost all ADCs, their second major item is going to be SS or PD, and the passive of IE gives their second item a lot more power. So for ADCs that do build IE as a core item, they benefit more from building it first than as a second or third item.

HuskyKurai1 votes

I tested it myself actually. It ended with two Ezreals killing each other at the same time. This is also why the old BT built up to 100 damage with 18% life steal while the IE had 70 AD. Now with a health shield to even out the critical damage and the concept of healing off of creeps/jungle camps they can counter act each other if used properly.

Adding on other items is a different thing all together. Sure you can get more critical hits with the changed IE but then you can also get critical heals with the BT. So if they balance each other out alone then adding different items just enforces each of their roles as a high critical dealer and a high sustaining shield.

Done252 votes

Because A. IE got nerfed for being too good of a rush item. B. This also affects things like Bloodthirster, giving them a smoother more and more natural feeling powercurve as they're being built.

Sukishoo1 votes

Should just do something like they did for item 1011 how it builds from item 1028 and make a item 1036 or maybe two build into item 1038

HuskyKurai1 votes

If you went with double Long Swords then the same issue still exists. An IE user can get a pickaxe and two long swords while everyone else building the merc/bt/reaver are stuck with a couple long swords. There's still a 25 damage pickaxe over shadowing the others.

Social Justice 11 votes

Friend I have not seen a single drop in people rushing Infinity Edge

HuskyKurai1 votes

That's because its easier to build the IE parts then the BT/Reaver/Merc ones. If you have to go back then you probably got enough for the Pickaxe for your IE. If your building BT then you go back with a Vampiric and try to hold your lane.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

offensive items are proactive buys, ie you know exactly what you need it for the moment you pick it up.

defensive items are reactive buys, i need MR now so i buy a null magic mantle and that builds into any MR item.

HuskyKurai1 votes

The only thing you need the IE for is damage. The issue is that its sister item, the Bloodthirster, has issues being built with the risk of an enemy getting an advantage because they are able to get a Pickaxe for damage before you can get your BF Sword. The BT and IE do not over power each other. Why should one of them have little risk from dying/backing early to buy a Pickaxe while the other needs to farm 1550 gold or have trouble stopping an enemies increased power?

With the Mercurial the issue is that you have the same problem of defense but a long time farming for power items. You buy a Null vs Vladimir and he buys books, a blasting wand, ruby crystal. Low cost parts that give him little boosts. You have the Null and now have to farm 1550 gold just to finish the item. With vlad's small boosts he is able to deal a bigger percent of damage then before when neither of you had bought any new items yet.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

The power curve for offensive items is not smooth, and that is very much intentional. In order to get large amounts of damage you must be vulnerable for a period, that's called counterplay. You say that buying the bloodthirster is more delayed but that is not true, it builds from longsword (which is cheaper than anything IE builds from) and the resulting item 1053 gives you lifesteal with comparatively low investment.

You draw a comparison of AD builds with AP builds. AP has bulding items in item 1052 item 1026 item 1058 , but AD has building items in item 1036 item 1037 item 1038. There is no difference here. You can buy small items too, it's just a matter of the risk you are willing to take for the reward.

On the other side they have been smoothing out the build paths for defensive items because when you need health or MR or armor you need it now. Defensive purchases are reactive, offensive purchases are proactive. That is the difference.

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