We need a 4th ban

DrTeddyBear··159 votes·6,374 views

As the champion pool in league grows blah blah blah, we need another ban in draft. Please Riot

80 Comments

AMYS GRAVE50 votes

i would say each team should get 5 bans, each player getting one. that way no one can blame the team captain for not banning X OP FotM champion.

Stephenizgod5 votes

I agree that the "team captain" shouldnt get to decide all the bans. Too many times they ban only the people they dont want to fight rather then communicating with team or they just ban random champions because they dont care...

gubigubi1 votes

I always ban my lane counters and then normally take 1 suggestion. If I have to first pick my main I'm going to take out the 2 worst match ups or no one on my team will have fun.

Stephenizgod1 votes

I ban the champ i want to fight the least for the role i am going into, like if i go Garen top i always ban Teemo or Kayle depending on who i am hating more at that moment. Then i ask for suggestions, if i get none i ban FotM champ then a champion i feel no one wants to fight like Rammus or Tryndamere (not necessarily those two but you get the point.)

aaronconlin2 votes

THIS. This would make everyone on the team a little happier, and it wouldn't give control of who gets banned to one person. Everyone would be able to ban one champion that they particularly hate playing against. For example, when I play Kayle mid, I hate playing against Yasuo (damn wind wall), but the captain might think it's a higher priority to ban someone like Zed because he's considered so strong right now.

qetzel2 votes

WAIT! Hold it... Doesn't Kayle's major source of damage come from a ranged AA that is NOT blocked by windwall?

aaronconlin1 votes

I think it gets blocked, but if I AA a minion and the splash hits him then he takes damage. Q gets blocked. Maybe AA doesn't get blocked, not really sure but it seemed like it did (only laned against Yasuo as Kayle a couple times). His shield is also annoying

qetzel1 votes

Nah. The AA doesn't get blocked. When her ratio was at 0.4 she was picked as a counter to Yasuo. But yeah, Q gets blocked. I suppose that is a bigger deal now though.

Hawkefire5 votes

This has actually been suggested multiple times, however Riot seems very adamantly against the idea (simply because it adds more bans....I really don't understand their, Riot's, logic here, it just seems silly that they would be so against it. I would dig up the post but I am pressed for time atm)

lorewise7 votes

It's because more bans does come with inherent problems, not the least of which is the fact that it increases the likelihood that players with smaller champion pools can be effectively shut out. When considering bans we have to take in to consideration also that some champions are niche picks, and leaving any player with only one or two champions means they may be picking in to a suboptimal team composition. As I understand Riot doesn't view shutting a player out completely to be healthy for solo ranked because it's vastly different than team games. That's the impression I've gotten at least and I have to agree.

daniellizard4 votes

That would be hell for competitive play. Even 4 bans would be very bad. Imagine if a pro team is first pick and bans the 5 most viable top/mid/adc/jung/supp champs?

I doubt that even 4 bans will ever happen. Not to mention that playing ranked games would need respectively at least 18 champs for 4 bans and 20 for 5 bans. That would make new players even more frustrated.

Hilltop Sunset2 votes

I think it's inherently unhealthy for a game that requiring 1/6 of their character roster is a tremendous difficulty/frustration for new players.

lorewise1 votes

I don't know exactly what you mean but I'd say that new players shouldn't be playing ranked anyway, you know?

Hilltop Sunset1 votes

Really all I'm saying is it's too difficult to get all the champs 'cause they cost too much. :P Haha, but I do agree that new players shouldn't be allowed to play. There should honestly be, like, a 100-win minimum to join ranked queues. I don't understand why a system like that isn't in place.

eabe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hilltop Sunset,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExFplty2,comment-id=0001000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-15T19:22:51.832+0000)

Really all I'm saying is it's too difficult to get all the champs 'cause they cost too much. :P Haha, but I do agree that new players shouldn't be allowed to play. There should honestly be, like, a 100-win minimum to join ranked queues. I don't understand why a system like that isn't in place.

That's why many people argue this is a pay to win game, but that's off topic. And banning champs will not effect in game play that much. Especially in solo queue. They should remove bans in none team made games. But that isn't going to happen.

lorewise1 votes

And those people don't know what they're talking about. League is pointed at as the example of how to do free to play right. This is not a pay to win game, even in the slightest.

Salzigorimando1 votes

Certainly not, but it is a pay-for-advantage game.

Initial Draven2 votes

Lol, excuse me? Paying money in league only gets you aesthetics. Sure, if you're a new player someone that paid for IP boosts may have more rune pages and champions than you, but there comes a point where that's completely irrelevant. If anything, it's a disadvantage to pay for IP boosts because you're getting less experience playing the game. Someone that plays a lot of games to earn the IP for whatever they want to buy would certainly be better than someone who just buys their way through it. Sure, there are exceptions to that but by no means is this game "pay for advantage"

lorewise1 votes

Well, by champion pool I don't mean *just *their unlocked champions. It's possible to have access to champions and not be proficient enough to use them effectively. There are only a few people in the entire world dedicated and talented enough to pick up *any *champion and play their best. Even professionals have to give this consideration.

Rew7111 votes

This would free up some place for less meta based champions. One side bans Katarina Khazix Hecarim Cassiopeia and Akali while the other bans Irelia LeeSin MasterYi Zed and Teemo.

Now, we'll see more serious plays. But, it is only 4 more bans. So that means you still have 112 champions to chose from.

IAmDevBot1 votes

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Inori x Shu1 votes

Ranked is pick order. If that person above him wants mid,he gets it

Truly Prideful24 votes

Honestly 5 bans per team would work well. There are currently 123 champions so 5 bans each team would still only remove 8% of the pool. More importantly though, people might actually see some different things played.

Dankplank42017 votes

5 Bans, just copy what Dota does for picks/bans. It is by far the best way to do it out there right now.

windwolf7774 votes

Well, you also have to consider that in Dota they alternate between picking and banning and they don't just ban all at once.

EDIT: But yes I agree. (Even though I think that we should have the dota system I also agree with more bans in general

Dankplank4202 votes

I know, I watch (and play) a lot of Dota, I like the alternating picks/bans, makes it more interesting.

LeeDark3 votes

That would work well for competitive play. For solo queue, it makes more sense to have 5 and just let every player ban the ONE thing they absolutely don't want to see.

SexyTaylorSwift6 votes

I want to see different things played, but don't think bans is the way to do it. More bans will lead to players just banning counters. I would rather see Riot put any sort of emphasis on buffing weak champs.

TonyTonyMordecai2 votes

I think that is the only way we're ever going to see more diversity. Because, honestly, when are we ever going to see Urgot in competitive play? No offense...

Kynami6 votes

Better idea might be just leave the bans as is and instead institute a weekly based Top 5 auto-ban.

Last week's top five bans are automatically banned the following week. And as it auto-adjusts on a weekly basis its a pressure valve, either you return to banning what was "OP" two weeks ago or you've figured out a higher priority ban.

Salzigorimando3 votes

Hmmmm, y'know, that's a neat idea right there. It would also help players keep an eye on in-game trends. You log on for the first time in a week and notice Zed, Yas, Leb, and Talon on the auto-ban list (For whatever reason). You now not only know that mid is unlikely to be an assassin or hyper carry type, but that somebody else on the enemy team *is * probably going to be that assassin/hyper carry. The ramifications of the fluxes in play this could cause are very interesting. Probably limit it to only a top 3 ban though.

Chromatic Eagle5 votes

I think the mentality against is, and I know you're not going to like this, LCS. More bans means banning a player's mains.

LeeDark5 votes

Actually, if they did it RIGHT, like DotA's picks and bans phase, it would actually increase the number of strong main champs you would see in the LCS. Instead of getting three bans right away and banning out the strongest player on the enemy team, you'd only get two chances to lock them out. They'd get their third choice EVERY time if you made that banning strategy a priority, and then they'd get their first choice for another role.

Then the other bans come, and, like in DotA, the teams would try to predict what strategy the opponent is aiming for and ban with that in mind. Then there would be a final pick phase. There would be a lot more strategic depth to champion selection, and strong players wouldn't have to keep expanding their champ pool just because nobody else on their team was worth banning out.

EDIT: Of course, Riot hates admitting that any other MOBA got something right where they got it wrong.

Archenz5 votes

With all the broken crap riot refuses to fix I think we need more bans.

Of the top of my head.

Zed,Fizz,Akali,Yasuo,Katarina (Well look at that, 3 out of 5 of these have no mana)

Seriously riot how much thought do you put into your champions.

demonsnake4201 votes

I can agree to more bans simply based on how many champions there currently are in the game, but you're argument of "more bans cause them broken champs" is a fallacy. Zed has, currently for the past month, a 48% win rate (and most of the time he hovers around there; technically the likes of Galio and Viktor are stronger/more successful than Zed is). Yasuo has around a 45% win rate (one of the lowest ones in the game). However Fizz (nearly 51% win rate), Akali (nearly 53% win rate), and Katarinia (nearly 53.5% win rate) are the more successful champions currently in soloque (though not the most successful). But, like all champs, there are ways to play against them (especially against assassins such as these off the top of my head I can think of good team coordination, overlapping cc, extra emphasis on vision control to counter their roams, etc.). I cannot stand to see comments like yours or entire threads whinning about "X op champ" cause it doesn't contribute anything; I'm only a lowly silver scrub and even I recognize the correct way on how a team should approach facing these champs. There is no such a thing as a 'freelo champion'. And it especially irritates me when I see these things cause often times the people don't know what their talking about; like, for example, all those threads complaining about Zed or Thresh or Lee Sin about how 'OP' or 'Broken freelo' that they are but the person complaining hasn't: A) Played said champions to see how they work and the mechanical skill required of them, and B) haven't looked up any relevant statistics concerning said 'broken' champs (Zed 48% win rate, Lee Sin 46% win rate, Thresh 47% win rate for those of you curious). End of rant.

Inori x Shu1 votes

Have you considered your teamates? Just because they don't have a good win rate doesn't not mean they are not op. If ur a 5/1 zed with a 1/16 Annie on ur team. Can u seriously expect to win? Like just because a champ doesn't win all the time doesn't mean they are unbalanced. Not just talking about zed. Yasuo is guilty. Volibear can build full tank and 4v1 a team with only being 3 kills up (have seen it happen) does not justify balance.

demonsnake4201 votes

I understand what you are saying, but I would argue that while win rate isn't everything regarding the balance of a champion it is a significant factor for when considering said champion's balance (especially moreso if said champion's win rate is consistently about the same). To me, if a champion is OP or broken than their win rate should shoot and up and consistently stay high. A good example of this was Patch 4.20 Warwick where he went from a decent jungle pick (win rate of around 51%) to become a seemingly unstoppable force of destruction (win rate shot up to 60%, the second highest any champion has had since Season 2 Ezreal iirc). Another good example would be Rek'Sai during last patch; new champion, and unlike most champions whose win rates plummet with all the new players trying to learn them, her win rate shot and even now still sits around 56% win rate. There are of course many factors to take into consideration for champion balance, but if one is approaching from a pure gameplay balance perspective a champion's consistent win rate would be the primary factor of consideration imo because it is a clear form of data to go off of. Like I'm a Zed player I'll admit but I don't mind that he's gonna get a small nerf, and I particularly don't mind because to me the way Riot framed it was that Zed is gonna get nerfed not necessarily because he is OP (which, again, I would argue that he isn't OP) but that he is strong with a lot of potential and can be pretty frustrating to play against. Does that make sense?

jQuery5 votes

This will result in rasing the min required number of champs for solo to 18. Wouldn't that be a bit bad?

pinkyblossom2 votes

most summoners: Who cares! give us 6 bans now! We can rage about "IP walls" and "new-player-non-friendly game" afterwards!

There are already a lot of smurfs who complain about the bad new player experience just coz they are annoyed that they need to get to lvl 30 again and earn IP for 16 champs and runes and rune pages... Imagine them if Riot suddenly implemented 5 bans. They are gonna flip!

So yeah i think is a bit bad for the current leveling and IP earning system. At least its gonna raise flaming toward rito, "a bit". :D

SEKAI4 votes

Then, 40 or so champions with 6 total bans, that sounds cool, alright then.

Now, 123 champions with 6 total bans, no no no. At least make it 10 total bans, I am nice enough not to ask according to the actual ratio, but really 10 total bans is about right for the time being.

flibitydoo3 votes

Dota 2 only has 109 heroes (and at maximum, 112 once Arc Warden, Winter Wyvern and Pit Lord get released), they have 5 bans on each side.

League has 123 champions, but only 3 bans on each side.

pinkyblossom2 votes

U are missing something.

They have all the champions(heroes) available on there, they can have 39 bans per team if they want - On lol u can only play with owned champs.

So if they go with 5 bans per team u will need minimum 20 champions to enter solo queue. This actually can be good for Riots profits but i think a lot of players will be unsatisfied/toxic. This will lead to major changes in profile leveling and XP and IP earnings.

U can have a new mode on which u will be allowed 5-6 bans... but then u will split the competition to -new players who don't yet have 20 champs so they play 3 bans - and - the rest who eater spend more money on league or are playing bit longer and can aford to enter ther new mode; Which is not good in any way.

BD Wilton2 votes

I like the idea of one ban per player. You could even arrange the bans to be preset so champ select doesn't take as long.

Social Justice 12 votes

More bans would also mean you would have to own more champions in order to play ranked (which I would love).

Currently you need 16 champs because that is the minimum number to avoid having actually 0 champs left to pick (6 champs banned and 10 champs selected per game).

Personally I would rather we get a formula or something instead of arbitrarily changing the number

Keon Kamori2 votes

I'm pretty sure Riot is against more bans because it creates a higher barrier of entry for new players into the competitive league environment(Not going to even talk about LCS because that's probably the biggest reason). Normal draft s usually practice for ranked draft and with 4-5 bans on each side new players would need to own 2-4 more champions just to play. Right now a player needs to own 16 champs to start. 6 to not be banned out, and 10 not to be picked out, if you're last pic of course.

However that still isn't fair to those of us who have been playing draft for longer. Ban's are useless, to me at least, if I'm forced to ban the same three champions for balance reasons (Akali Morgana and nowTristana) there ceases to be strategy in bans.

TheKingDodo1 votes

4 is fine, 5 would mean I need to buy more champs to play ranked :(

Salzigorimando2 votes

Quite probably why they haven't bumped up the ban count yet, though I think most players could expand their pools fairly quickly.

Miku Lv991 votes

I would definitely like to see more bans. It's annoying to face the same op champions so often. And yet my teammates still have so much trouble dealing with some of them and end up feeding them yet again.

j j1 votes

I'd rather not wait another 30 seconds for somebody to figure out what to ban.

ˇUrarakaˆ1 votes

yeah league of legends needs a fourth maybe a fifth ban.. q.q RITO PLZ

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