My issue with Sylas

ViolentCarmine·Mar 2, 2019·35 votes·14,317 views

Everybody has made a thread about healing, I agree the nerf didn't do anything to him and riot should get someone who doesn't main the champion to balance him.

But my issue with Sylas is that certain mains are forced to ban this champ, for example I'm a Neeko main if Sylas gets this ult. everybody dies it's just too impactful to be kept unbanned especially with a kit like Sylas', which means I don't get a ban, I no longer get to ban the champion I dislike laning against (for example katarina or zed)or has some kind of advantage over me. I'm forced to ban Sylas or risk having my team crumble due to my ult being so powerful, kept in check with a kit that sylas doesn't have.

Every new character you make, you're going to have to balance for Sylas as well. It's a cool idea in theory but jeeze something needs to change

59 Comments

A girl Supp MainMar 2, 201914 votes

Wish Sylas was just like Rubick and stole the last ability used by an enemy so even people with big dick Ults could try to slip out a basic ability real quick afterwards or something. It'd give inherent counterplay that currently doesn't exist, and make ability stealing actually interactive.

Plus some basic abilities are still good on their own and opens up a lot more creativity in stealing instead of pigeon holing him into counter picking a few champions that are balanced around their Ults.

ViolentCarmineMar 2, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Girl Supp Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExEAXN8h,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-02T06:29:17.329+0000)

Wish Sylas was just like Rubick and stole the last ability used by an enemy so even people with big dick Ults could try to slip out a basic ability real quick afterwards or something. It'd give inherent counterplay that currently doesn't exist, and make ability stealing actually interactive.

Plus some basic abilities are still good on their own and opens up a lot more creativity in stealing instead of pigeon holing him into counter picking a few champions that are balanced around their Ults.

That's pretty cool idea tbh, obviously with some increased scaling/based cause it's an ult but it's better than watching him, ult me, do his dash,ult (everybody focuses him cause it's sylas) stun us all and get 70% hp back.

it's a cool idea

rival marnieMar 2, 20195 votes

I had a similar thought to this when seeing how Sylas R works against Leblanc, given the nature of her kit. Not sure if it's the last ability used or the last ability used with R, she can juke me and make me take Q instead of E or something.

5StackUltOneShotMar 2, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Girl Supp Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExEAXN8h,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-02T06:29:17.329+0000)

Wish Sylas was just like Rubick and stole the last ability used by an enemy so even people with big dick Ults could try to slip out a basic ability real quick afterwards or something. It'd give inherent counterplay that currently doesn't exist, and make ability stealing actually interactive.

Plus some basic abilities are still good on their own and opens up a lot more creativity in stealing instead of pigeon holing him into counter picking a few champions that are balanced around their Ults.

Bear in mind Rubicks steal was instant. Sylas has a wind up time, if they implement your idea that steal has to be instant as well.

hrooza dota Mar 4, 20191 votes

also rubick can cast the ability as much as he wants ( try stealing kog ulti and give me the result) ,can change his stolen spell while he have it , get all added effects (such as shadow fiend souls or luna Q level when he steal her ulti) and his ulti cd start ticking the moment he steal not the moment he cast the other ability

all of those should happen along side massive CD buff on all levels if we gonna change it to rubick style tbh

wildfox9TMar 2, 201912 votes

i feel the same allowing him to dash 6+ times in a teamfight and giving him a 105% AP scaling ult Ahri even worse if you are playing something like Malphite who is basically a walking R

some champions have big tradeoffs for having a strong ult,but then sylas comes and can get them without having any of their penalties

i've been saying this since the fist day he came out,his ult is bad designed and can't be balanced

RainXBladeMar 2, 20191 votes

Then what would you suggest? Gut the rest of his kit? Because I don't think that inherently solves the problem with Sylas's kit requiring to be a generalist one due to the mere fact that he technically doesn't have his own ult and borrows other people's ults.

ViolentCarmineMar 2, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Then what would you suggest? Gut the rest of his kit? Because I don't think that inherently solves the problem with Sylas's kit requiring to be a generalist one due to the mere fact that he technically doesn't have his own ult and borrows other people's ults.

isn't it obvious, nerf his heal. give him a reason to play like a normal player instead of being carried by his heal

RagnaveilMar 3, 20191 votes

With basically no type of actual AP bruiser build to fall back on. Seems fair.

wildfox9TMar 3, 20191 votes

a bruiser it's not suposed to burst in 0.X seconds,i'd be fine with him being hard to kill if his burst and damage wouldn't be as high as an assassin

RagnaveilMar 3, 20191 votes

He kinda has to use everything just to "burst" you, and by then he'll have to wait on 6+ second cooldowns for his W and E. Its kinda gonna be like this until riot does something about ap bruiser itemization. Issue is they dont want mages abusing it. The easy way is just making it melee only if I had to be honest.

wildfox9TMar 3, 20191 votes

He kinda has to use everything just to "burst" you

assassins too,i don't see your point

it doesn't change the fact that he can still burst like an assassin while being tanky thanks to his abilities

and by then he'll have to wait on 6+ second cooldowns for his W and E

kinda like almost any ability-based champion? and does it matter if his enemy is already dead? also he have his passive,which is like a 4th ability that can be used multiple times,used properly gives him a ridiculous damage output

he have a decent poke (Q) and strong all-in,shields,heals,good mobility,CCs,both assassin-ish burst and BPS (passive used properly),i get that he needs compensation for his bad itemization but that's too much in one kit,especially when you add a strong ult like the one mentioned in this thread

in my opinion for fixing his base kit they need to lower his damage but reduce his W CD,again it's ok having a good survivability when you are not instakilling people,it's not when you can 100-0 them in less than 1 sec

The easy way is just making it melee only if I had to be honest.

not necessarily,remember the old abyssal scepter?

only low range champions were tanking it even though it was viable for everyone,something like that

LovelleMar 4, 20191 votes

Been working for since forever. None of them have as much sustain as Sylas, and only one of them has remotely similar mobility.

LovelleMar 4, 20191 votes

Been working for since forever. None of them have as much sustain as Sylas, and only one of them has remotely similar mobility.

wildfox9TMar 3, 20191 votes

Then what would you suggest?

a champ with such ult shouldn't have been released on the first place

don't ask me what i would do with him when i clearly said "his ult is bad designed and can't be balanced"

Gut the rest of his kit?

yeah that could be a momentary solution,sure he would be too bad when he can get only bad ults (even though there is always at least one or two decent ults to steal in a game),but better penalize 1 champ (who is also the cause of the problem) than 1/4 of the LOL champs

Daddy AntsMar 2, 201911 votes

My issue with Sylas is ...

Why can he steal ultimates from people who haven't even unlocked it themselves yet?

Chembaron YamadaMar 2, 20198 votes

Idea behind it was probably that many champion can get a good powerspike advantage over their enemy by reaching lvl 6 before them. If he can't steal ultimates which are not unlocked, then he would never get this advantage in lane, but his enemy would.

Not saying that I agree with that, but that was probably the thought process behind that decision.

KFCeytronMar 2, 20198 votes

Yes, Sylas is unbalanceable due to his ult. It was an incredibly stupid design decision, but he's a shirtless husbando so ~~Konami~~ Riot is okay with him.

Original SinMar 2, 20198 votes

I was playing kassadin earlier against a sylas. In lane even if he was sub 10% health I couldn't kill him. He would just heal back up to over 50% health and just repeat it. I couldn't kill him at all. Such a bullshit heal

l MrD lMar 2, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Original Sin,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExEAXN8h,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-02T07:37:18.171+0000)

I was playing kassadin earlier against a sylas. In lane even if he was sub 10% health I couldn't kill him. He would just heal back up to over 50% health and just repeat it. I couldn't kill him at all. Such a bullshit heal

Kassadin should wreck Sylas though ... thing is with SYlas he makes burst trades as his cooldowns are way too long to make use of extended trades .. if you can survive his trade just engage on him and kill him as it will be a while before he can get a rotation of skills up .. this is where kass can kill him he can keep stick to him

Original SinMar 2, 20194 votes

Kas doesnt wreck anyone in lane. I'm talking about lane, not level 16.

if you can survive his trade just engage on him and kill him

Hes not trading against me. Im trying to trade against him but the trade always comes as a net positive to him with that absurd heal. Then 10 seconds later just repeat the same thing. I use my rotation, he uses w and heals everything I just did. Its just stupid honestly. Theres no window where I can kill him without assistance. Very interactive lane.

RagnaveilMar 2, 20192 votes

Isn't the idea for Kass to be weak until he gets items and level 11/16?

Original SinMar 2, 20192 votes

Yeah but sylas was below 10% health and my rotation could never kill him because he would just point and click heal to 50% health. Then my next rotation would make him heal to 70% health. I mean sure kassadins weak but that was like level 8-10. I should be able to punish that myself but I could never just because of his heal.

RagnaveilMar 3, 20193 votes

You didn't get item 3165 ?

Yets4240Mar 3, 20192 votes

At level 8, as a Kassadin? No. No one does. Wtaf. Have you even been reading what he's saying?

"I'm talking about lane, not level 16."

"I mean sure kassadins weak but that was like level 8"

Additonally, according to League of Graphs, Morellonomicon is built in the final build of Kassadin players in less than 1% of games, with less than 10% popularity overall and is never purchased as a first item, let alone rushed less than 10 minutes into the game.

VarindranMar 2, 20196 votes

Is it odd i see sylas as some kind of AP version of riven. With the cc,shield,mobility,sheen style passive the only thing they don't really have is matching ults and he has mana i guess.

Iota ThetaMar 2, 20198 votes

the only thing they don't really have is matching ults

And sometimes, they do.

LovelleMar 2, 20196 votes

He utilizes some champ's ults better than they do, thanks to how mobile and sustained he is.

Trundle DrMundo Both being good examples. They both have quite simple and limited kits to make up for their powerful ults. Once he steals them, he essentially becomes a better version of both champions.

chipndip1Mar 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He utilizes some champ's ults better than they do, thanks to how mobile and sustained he is.

Both being good examples. They both have quite simple and limited kits to make up for their powerful ults. Once he steals them, he essentially becomes a better version of both champions.

I mean, Mundo has more max health to utilize the healing with. Sylas is really only using the MS when he uses a Mundo ult.

LovelleMar 4, 20191 votes

Depends on how he builds. The Sylas player in that particular game went IBG, Spirit Visage and Abyssal Mask (forget the last two items). He seems to be a much bigger threat when he builds tanky.

In contrast, he's quite easy to manage when he goes straight AP, but (at least on 3v3) not many are playing him that way anymore.

LovelleMar 4, 20191 votes

Depends on how he builds. The Sylas player in that particular game went IBG, Spirit Visage and Abyssal Mask (forget the last two items). He seems to be a much bigger threat when he builds tanky.

In contrast, he's quite easy to manage when he goes straight AP, but (at least on 3v3) not many are playing him that way anymore.

Wizard BlazeMar 2, 20195 votes

they should make his ulti a skill shot and require atleast average IQ for a player to play him instead point and click

ImbetterthanmoeMar 2, 20195 votes

Riot: We told ourselves that we didnt want to make a champion that would force us to edit every other champion just for him to work

Gj riot you did exactly that

LTK KoRoMar 2, 20194 votes

my issue with him is just how his q poke is obnoxious vs melees. that's all

Titanium70Mar 2, 20194 votes

Wait I play both - Neeko and Sylas and first has a super easy matchup into the later!

Neeko destroys Melees in lane by default and Sylas is not different. Whenever he tries to E2 you can W into his direction completely negating any engage from him.

ViolentCarmineMar 2, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Wait I play both - Neeko and Sylas and first has a super easy matchup into the later!

Neeko destroys Melees in lane by default and Sylas is not different. Whenever he tries to E2 you can W into his direction completely negating any engage from him.

You've completely missed the point of my post

Titanium70Mar 2, 20192 votes

Not really - yeah his ult is good against you but there are so many champs with similar issues. You have your ult twice as often so use it.

Besides you should also do more dmg than since he usually can't go for squishy builds. I guess playing Neeko you know the issue of being to squishy. x'D

ViolentCarmineMar 2, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Not really - yeah his ult is good against you but there are so many champs with similar issues. You have your ult twice as often so use it.

Besides you should also do more dmg than since he usually can't go for squishy builds. I guess playing Neeko you know the issue of being to squishy. x'D

the point I'm making is his kit allowed him to get into range and the ability to survive better. with neeko you've got to get in to range and if you do manage to, pray you're not blown up before the cast and get out.

Sylas only has the blown up problem, his chains/shield/dash is good for getting into range and his heal/shields keeps him alive.

the problem lies with his kit, most game changing ults are gated by the kit, Sylas' kit doesn't have that issue

Titanium70Mar 2, 20192 votes

Which directly brings us back to my original post where I tell you, you have a good macthup into him!

He needs to get on top of his target you have E-R the second he treis to.

ViolentCarmineMar 2, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Which directly brings us back to my original post where I tell you, you have a good macthup into him!

He needs to get on top of his target you have E-R the second he treis to.

my e r doesn't override his chain grab and landing my e onto a sylas is difficult with his mobility

PokladnicaZlaMar 2, 20193 votes

Make his ultimate a skillshoot. I know they tested it and felt horrible, but maybe it should feels like it. Stealing any ultimate that could be extremely powerful,but isn't because it's kept in a kit that isn't Sylas's. :))

sphinxthelion7Mar 2, 20193 votes

I said when Sylus was announced he wasn't a champ that could be balanced. Looks like I'm right.

Dreamer35Mar 2, 20193 votes

My favorite thing as an Ekko main is all inning Sylas just for him to get to 5% health up to 50% with his healing and then I ultimate him taking him back down to 5% just for him to steal my ultimate and going back up to 50% then going back down to just W again back to 50%. 3 separate times in one fight.

SweedishGunnerMar 2, 20192 votes

I wish he had more skillshots or something. His passive is an AA, W is point and click and so is his ult, I originally thought it was a skillshot but turns out it isn't.

XElite109Mar 2, 20192 votes

Damn really love Sylas’s healing though

Death Angel KaynMar 3, 20192 votes

Sylas has been my favorite champion released since original Talon. Once they listen to hardstuck silver players like you is when I finally just quit. Blame how broken mages items are, not Sylas.

xPhantomDancerXMar 3, 20192 votes

Reduce the damage from his stolen ults. By how much? I don't know. But enough to make it less oppressive.

Fargo79Mar 3, 20192 votes

the range of his ulti is too big as well.. considering its a point and click its not even like someone can block it for u.. they gave him WAY too much in his kit.. a dash, heal, Shield, point and click abilities with very low mana requirements. I personally dont play him.. he doesnt fit into my champ pool atm. but when im substantially back from him and he is still able to snag my ulti at like what seems like 1200 minimum.. im sure its some where around 1500-1700 range. and he hit people like a truck and heals and shields off it all i think he is a tad unbalanced..

but they wont make him have more skill shots.. but maybe nerfing the range, mana, and ap ratio at least might bring him back into line..

Jubilee PhoenixMar 3, 20191 votes

I for one think Sylas is grabge and his heal was the only good thing he had. Also his ult is buggy as all hell and needs to be reworked.

Bears Dont CareMar 3, 20191 votes

Once again, the league community ahomozes when they cannot rush the same build every matchup. It's like I am seei g a bunch of hanshinshin running amock.