New Mechanic: Temporary Damage

Prime Strategist·Jul 20, 2015·45 votes·3,188 views

What if you could inflict a sort of 'negative shield' onto your opponent? Temporary damage that would restore health back to your opponent after a certain time, but would still be completely lethal if your enemy ever drops below zero.

This would allow for some interesting spells, such as a balanced high damage finisher - that can really only be used as a finisher.

A couple edits:

It wouldn't have to be a skill with 100% 'grey damage', it could do part temporary and part real.
Another option (that I like a lot better) is a champion who after a basic combo could choose between: (a) A high damage finisher that does a bunch more 'grey damage' (b) A low damage trading option that 'procs' the temporary damage to make it stick.

I appreciate all the feedback!

54 Comments

DurzakaJul 20, 201518 votes

That doesnt sound fun to use at all.

You are effectively creating an execute, that is all it is. A skill that has no use except when someone is already going to die, or is already in kill range. And outside of that you cant ever use it because it wouldnt do anything.

KONO RUBICK DAJul 20, 20151 votes

i don't know why op said it is an execute, you can make a spell like reduce the target hp by 15% for 6 seconds which is a negative shield that helps your team to kill a target

DurzakaJul 20, 201516 votes

If you dont kill the target during the skill, the skill is useless. Therefore it is a kill skill only, which is pretty much identical to an execute, whether it is use at the start or end of the fight is irrelevant. Except using it at the start has a chance the skill will do nothing, whereas using it as a proper execute gives it a (terrible) use.

RueianJul 20, 20152 votes

Load the champion with lots of meaningful CC.

Du Ma MiJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If you dont kill the target during the skill, the skill is useless. Therefore it is a kill skill only, which is pretty much identical to an execute, whether it is use at the start or end of the fight is irrelevant. Except using it at the start has a chance the skill will do nothing, whereas using it as a proper execute gives it a (terrible) use.

Executes (Darius, Garen, Riven, etc...) can be used when the target is at full health, even if they're more effective at lower health. I think this is a great idea.

If you want to execute someone, go ahead. If your team is going after an enemy, and you're almost dead, you don't want to stick around, but the "damage" would be enough for your team to get the kill before the time is up

It might even cause the enemy to start running back to turret (because they think they'll die) allowing for free aa's ad other spells, so when they heal back up from your -shield, they still have to back.

All in all, this could be used in a lot of great ways.

DurzakaJul 20, 20155 votes

Darius' ult has an execute mechanic, it isnt tied to being an execute.

Garen's ult has a base damage and scales on missing health.

Riven's ult has increased range and massive damage boost tied to it.

Notice something about these 3 skills? They are all ultimates. Meaning the fight is going all out and going to probably be decided one way or anything. So the execute portion is useful.

But what OP is describe is also damage that doesnt stick. That doesnt feel good for anyone to use. And making a champion feel good to play is half of the challenge of the design.

Du Ma MiJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Darius' ult has an execute mechanic, it isnt tied to being an execute.

Garen's ult has a base damage and scales on missing health.

Riven's ult has increased range and massive damage boost tied to it.

Notice something about these 3 skills? They are all ultimates. Meaning the fight is going all out and going to probably be decided one way or anything. So the execute portion is useful.

But what OP is describe is also damage that doesnt stick. That doesnt feel good for anyone to use. And making a champion feel good to play is half of the challenge of the design.

Just like this ability wouldn't be an execute, just have an execute mechanic. Sure, damage that doesn't stay for more than 6 seconds or so wouldn't feel great, but you could bait heals with it, it could help you win a fight or force a back, it could help you leash the jungler, and sure - you could even use it as an execute. What's the problem with that? No, it might not be the most fitting ability to all champions, but if you could find the right kit for it, it'd be great.

Robert SmithJul 21, 20151 votes

Make it a summoner like ignite then

TurquoiseYoshiJul 20, 20152 votes

I can sue whatever I want. I would just get rejected by the court. In all seriousness, there are some weird skills out there. Tahm Kench's Grey Health is weird. Rek'sai's tunnels are weird. TF's Cards are weird. Quinn's passive is weird. An execute for one character would be an idea that wouldn't be terrible. Maybe it would be longer range and higher damage, but you have to judge it right.

DurzakaJul 20, 20154 votes

I didnt say it was weird.

It said it wasnt fun and isnt a satisfying mechanic to use.

TurquoiseYoshiJul 20, 20151 votes

Executes are pretty damn satisfying. More satisfying than Cinderhulking an enemy to death, or Bard's ultimate, or Hec's ultimate, or getting a kill with any Rumble ability other than the harpoon.

DurzakaJul 20, 20155 votes

Damage that has the chance to not stick is not satisfying.

When it actually results in a kill how will it feel any better than other skill that just does a chunk of damage? Trick question, it wouldnt.

So it only has the downside of feeling terrible when the damage doesnt stick. There is no upside.

TurquoiseYoshiJul 20, 20151 votes

Except, as balancing for not sticking, it would do extra damage and have longer range/global range. And executes are awesome to pull off, and unlikely to be capitalized on if they fail. So it'll be a more execute-y execute.

Jungle Lux GodJul 20, 20153 votes

I'm not sure that it would have to be only an execute.

Like you could have a base damage, and extra damage done like this. There's still some use for the ability outside of it being an execute, but it's not only useful for an execute.

BârdJul 21, 20151 votes

Yeah, because executes are never fun to use Darius Chogath Garen

DurzakaJul 21, 20154 votes

I didnt say executes arent fun.

I said damage that has a chance to not stick isnt fun.

Prime StrategistJul 21, 20151 votes

It's nearly the same idea as other execute skills; the entire concept of an execute is to make them useless when your victim is full health. This mechanic simply gives a way to specify a skill as an execute, and to balance the skill so that it doesn't get abused. It would also have potential to delay engages, to bait heals, and other interesting things.

A skill that does a lot of damage straight up is just too powerful, that's why the current executes mainly do a percentage of lost HP. It is true, most executes are very situational, but there are many highly effective, yet situational skills; just as there are many less potent, but generally more useful ones. This is the heart of diversity, and diversity is at the core of any strategic game. It is part of what makes League fun.

diamondlightJul 21, 20154 votes

Grey Death.

RueianJul 20, 20153 votes

Reminds me of the illusion skill tree in City of Heroes

hitbornJul 20, 20151 votes

I miss City of Heroes...

ApexInTheCircleJul 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Reminds me of the illusion skill tree in City of Heroes

I fucking love you. That's the first thing that came to my mind when I read it aswell.

Edit. I really miss CoH/CoV :(

RedCycloneJul 20, 20152 votes

I don't think Riot can swing it in a satisfying way

On one hand, the temp damage would be too little/drop off too fast and feel like crap to use Or on the other, it being a main part of a champions kit and doing too much damage probably stacked ontop of other damage sources

RueianJul 20, 20151 votes

The way City of Heroes did it, was it dealt slightly higher than normal base damage, but only 40% of it was permanent damage.

You can tie illusion damage with Fear, stun, snares to justify how long till the target 'snaps out of it' and realizes things are ok.

UPfreelyJul 20, 20152 votes

tahm basically does this with his e passive

SouL1essJul 20, 20151 votes

No the OP means apply temporary damage to enemies by your champion, not apply temporary damage to yourself by enemies.

UPfreelyJul 21, 20151 votes

yeah but the mechanic is the same

SzunrayJul 21, 20152 votes

Imagine; A champion who does insane amounts of temporary damage the closer the enemy is to full health. Hardly damages anyone on his own, but sets up easy kills for his team.

TotalJerkJul 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hardly damages anyone on his own, but sets up easy kills for his team.

This is what Ekko was SUPPOSED to be.

ploki122Jul 21, 20151 votes

That explains his bonus damage to people under 50% health...

TotalJerkJul 21, 20151 votes

The way they described him in the reveal was that he's supposed to be an assassin that doesn't do all the damage on his own. He was supposed to use his utility to work with his team to get the kill. Whether that's actually how he turned out isn't the point of my comment.

SoMNiaJul 21, 20152 votes

No. He was supposed to be an "assassin" who takes multiple tries to kill a target, and that's exactly what he is. Rewinding and multiple tries/second chances are his entire theme.

Sire HippingtonJul 20, 20151 votes

i don't think a inverted shield would be that great, it would either feel horrible fir the user, as the skill potentially does nothing, or it feels horrible for the victim, as the potential damage of that skill would be rather high to blance out the fail-case.

However, going a 'Grey Health' approach, makeing a high damage skill that applys a % off it's damage as Grey Health which regens back if the target didn't recive damage for a while could work. It would not be only an execute, but an all-in tool, and if you don't get the kill atleast some off the damage sticks

Jungle Lux GodJul 20, 20151 votes

This is a cool idea with a lot of potential, although I doubt that we'd see more than one or two champions with this kind of ability.

It's almost like a reverse grey-health system where you deal damage, and some of the damage would be healed back after a certain amount of time on Tahm Kench, or the red-health system used in some fighting games, which is the system that inspired Tahm Kench's grey health system and works similarly, although it may have restrictions.

In particular I could see this being used on bruisers or assassins, where the champion could have fairly high base damages, but needs to commit to engages in order to make the damage stick, and need to constantly be using their damage tools in order to make their damage count.

The LovelessJul 20, 20151 votes

Sounds like the white health bars from darkstalkers. It's a cool idea by it kinda of shives out low dps/sustained damage since most people would probably run away and heal.

SuperSourCatJul 20, 20151 votes

So Tahm Kench…

Kilo of KozJul 21, 20151 votes

...how?

SuperSourCatJul 22, 20151 votes

The grey damage, his e

SwainDaRokJensenJul 21, 20151 votes

Kind of how Gray Health works on Tahm right now, I assume that is where you got the idea

ƒoesJul 21, 20151 votes

It kind of sounds like the opposite of Tahm Kench's E.

High5Jul 21, 20151 votes

I'm open minded, but this seems like an odd idea.

We do have armor pen and magic pen that kind of fill this role. There are also abilities like Lulu's polymorph and Morg's shield that augment and disable abilities too.

Like many of the other comments, I'm not quite sure how this would work in a fun sort of way.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 21, 20151 votes

I've actually tinkered with this idea on a concept or two. Generally....

Seems to work better as a support-skill than a part of a nuker/DoT kit.
It has to be true damage, otherwise it's next-to-useless.
It works best as a small amount of "extra" damage. A debuff/curse. (10/20/30/40/50 true damage per auto, for example)
The way it works with grievous wounds makes or breaks this ability. If it works, it's dangerous. If it doesn't, I'd guess balanced?

I imagine this would be most useful on a kit that prioritizes disengage rather than using it as an execute. A debuff that you have to get away from or risk dying while it's on. Alternatively, fighting through the pain and surviving as your HP comes back.

SoMNiaJul 21, 20151 votes

THIS is what Miss Fortune's Impure Shots should do. Same amount of damage, same stacking mechanism, but temporary damage rather than magic damage. Not reduced by armor/MR, but starts to heal if they take no damage for a while.

Another note: all healing goes to temporary damage first?

FatalHaloJul 21, 20151 votes

Change Darius Passive to deal temporary damage. Makes more sense that enemies bleed, but heal after awhile unless they die from the passive. The temporary damage bar could turn crimson red giving Darius an execution indicator, which tells Darius that his Ult would finish his target off. Somewhat like Chogath execution indicator.

Also an Idea, give temporary damage a time, where the enemy who took temporary damage loses partial health return from the temporary damage if they stay in combat too long.

LlamaSpeedJul 21, 20151 votes

I personally think this is a wonderful idea, people mostly focus on what you can't do rather than what you can, this mechanic would allow so many nice combos with champion spells and very interesting abilities, i like this idea a lot!

BlastumzJul 21, 20151 votes

League of Legend's Necrotic Strike.

EthriJul 21, 20151 votes

I think it would be more interesting to have a skill that increased the duration of teammate skills on a specific target.

Think of all the possible interactions.

VerandureJul 21, 20151 votes

To make it more useful, you could pair it with a self-heal.

The spell damages the enemy, temporarily, and slowly heals them for a portion of the damage taken while simultaneously healing the caster for that same amount.

YOU BEEN WARNEDJul 21, 20151 votes

Sooo Oracle from DotA?

Knight SoIaire Jul 21, 20151 votes

but what if we go even further with your idea ?

conditional damage kalista's w could use that mechanic ... grey health shows what damage can it do

many skills that have a certain requirement to deal some bonus damage could use it ... zed's ultimate would be great ... since his current ult indicator sucks