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How Vi should be nerfed - by a "biased Vi main" [xpost from GD]

Crimson Mutt·3/4/2015, 12:48:05 AM·2 votes·596 views

TLDR: Don't nerf base damage. Nerf Q CD at later ranks and ratios.

First off: • yes I main Vi • been maining her since her release

This means that: • Yes, I want to keep her relevant, not nerf her to oblivion like most want • No, I don't think she needs to have 30% winrate • I know where to hit her since I have over 2 years of experience with her

So, what is currently on the PBE: • Movement speed lowered to 345 from 350 • Assault and Battery (R) damage lowered to 150/300/450 from 200/325/450 • Assault and Battery (R) ratio lowered to 1.4 from 1.5 - technically a bugfix. Tooltip and everything stated 1.4 while actual damage calculated off of 1.5

While the base movement speed nerf is fair, I think the R nerf is misguided. The whole concept of nerfing her base damage is misguided.

See, Vi can build any standard bruiser build, in a sense that she can:

  1. Focus on getting defense early
  2. Get a mix of defense and offense early
  3. Get more offense early and tank up later

What lowering the base damage does is that it lowers the power of the former and barely does anything for the latter playstyle. Currently the problem is her midgame spike and her dominance in midgame skirmishes, especially the prolonged ones with a lot of back-and-forth. For her midgame spike she often goes Warrior>Trinity, ergo playstyle 3. See how the nerfs barely affect that?

What they need is to not weaken playstyles 1 and 2, but hit the playstyle more towards the third one (stacking early offense). Additionally, her dominance in skirmishes is largely due to her low Q cooldown at max rank. 8 seconds and around 6.4 seconds with 20% CDR (what she'll realistically have). Her Q cooldown is extremely punishing at early ranks (18 bloody seconds) so that should not be increased.

To that end, what needs to be cut are her ratios to hit her early damage stacking, as well as increasing her Q CD at later ranks.

What I propose: • Movement speed lowered to 345 from 350 - this is ok from the original nerfs, it can stay. • Vault Breaker (Q) cooldown increased to 18/16/14/12/10 from 18/15.5/13/10.5/8 • Excessive Force (E) bonus damage ratio lowered to 5% from 15% • Assault and Battery (R) ratio lowered to 1.4 from 1.5 - It's a bugfix, really. I'd lower it further to 1.3 but ok.

Honestly, additionally I'd like for the Q mana cost to scale with charge time so Q tapping to avoid skillshots isn't punished but encouraged, but that's just wishful thinking at this point.

12 Comments

vIbvdOwbko3/4/2015, 12:54:00 AM1 votes

On the part about the mana cost scaling with charge time, I feel that riot does that so Vi can't just charge Q for a second then jump over a wall or disrupt an enemy with only like 30 mana. Maybe a mana refund if it's not charged all the way.

Anonagon3/4/2015, 1:02:51 AM1 votes

No.

Her W should be where she is nerfed. This would nerf her clears and dueling, which is reasonable since she excels in small skirmishes and has good ganks and teamfights too. Currently she is a jack of all trades so she needs to lose clearing/ dragon soloing.

Dyonas3/4/2015, 3:19:35 AM1 votes

Alternatively, stop nerfing every jungler that has gone unchanged for ages and try this novel new idea of buffing other junglers to be more competitive. If you nerf everything constantly you'll end up with a team of 5 v 5 where the damage is done using harsh language.

Bears Dont Care3/4/2015, 3:29:21 AM1 votes

What dyonas said. Vi is not the issue. The jungle itself.is what killed diversity not vi. Or we would.never have seen pantheon, evelynn, and elise.

Lee sin kills diversity. A harsh jungle kills.diversity. Vi doesnt

doublelift fg3/4/2015, 12:59:01 PM1 votes

nice nerf on her Q, also reduce the armor reduction to 10/12/14/16/18% from 20% all ranks remember when wukong had 30% lvl 1 armor reduction on his Q?