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Never again (ranked rant)

Gumurak··8 votes·2,037 views

Before we get started I wanted to clarify a few things here

1.) This is not about how well people play 2.) This not about being upset about losing a game (legitimately)

What I have a problem with is the ranking system in the way it sits now. I have limited time to play, yet alone make anything during the season worth while. other than my own personal ranking is fun for me. However tonight I went down in rank. And I'm not even upset about going down in my ranking if it had been a legit game. Instead I had people trolling in selection and I was second to last and the last guy after I had picked decided that he did not want to support. So he went gnar top, so we had a dual tank top, no support a fiz mid and me as adc alone at bot. The jungler eventually went top, they fed and died, and lost lane. I wasn't even upset at that. But after awhile the jungler rage quit, the others continued to challenge and die one by one and backed it up with it's just a game. And then went afk at base with one other, sat there arguing the entire time. And therefore we lost. but with the current system I get punished for that. isn't it time we had a way for games like this to account for the players personal participation. rather than being backed down on their game play because of it. I can live with everything else but this. Tonight this literally almost made me quit. Because casual players like myself are getting screwed on a regular basis due to it. And it has never been addressed.

22 Comments

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Maybe they should implement a Freelo system that awards a few LP to players who lost games on a team where there was a DC/AFK or feeder that has been reported many times for it.

apuig1 votes

been there...

my advice, since your problem started in champion selection, is to dodge the game.

Gumurak1 votes

have you lost your mind? You don't dodge a ranked queue

shletithappen3 votes

have you lost your mind? You don't dodge a ranked queue

Actually, I dodged them frequently in Bronze. And only after I did so, did I start to climb. It's best to leave games when you know people are going to lose / fight / play stupid arrangements from the outset. 3 LP is much better than 30.

Tebryn1 votes

No you only lose 3 the first time you dodge every other dodge after that will lose you 10 lp and give you a 30 min ban for ranked games. and i dont know where you get 30 lp at a lose maybe if you are Diamond 1 but in silver till plat you lose 10-24 lp.

BakedLotion1 votes

have you lost your mind? You don't dodge a ranked queue

Actually, I dodged them frequently in Bronze. And only after I did so, did I start to climb. It's best to leave games when you know people are going to lose / fight / play stupid arrangements from the outset. 3 LP is much better than 30.

How do you lose 30 LP a game? I barely lose 10

Goumindong1 votes

You shouldn't dodge a promotion series (each dodge counts as a loss) but you absolutely should dodge game where people are trolling if you want to gain ELO.

The penalty for dodging a game is in a potential queue timer and in LP. The queue timer means nothing if you're pretty certain the game was going to be a negative experience. Better to spend 5-30 minutes doing something else than getting mad at trolls. The LP penalty means precisely nothing over the long term

You see, LP is a floating stat which attempts to track your MMR. Dodging does not change your MMR, so if you dodge a game, you will, roughly, make up the LP penalty the next, or next few games regardless of the outcome. Suppose that you drop 3 LP from a dodge and then lose two in a row. You would be in roughly the same spot as if you had simply lost two in a row but not dodged. Suppose you drop 3 LP from a dodge then win the next game. You will get, roughly, 3 bonus LP on the next win making up for it.

Now, iirc, you don't always equalize right away, but it happens pretty quick, because your LP is always trying to track to your MMR and will adjust the rewards for wins and penalties for losses in order to get your LP and MMR back to where they should be.

The reason we have dodge penalties is mainly to keep people honest and not queueing up to ruin peoples day by dodging all the time. But if you're just dodging trolls or whatnot, its not really a penalty.

So yea, dodge them ranked games.

TUfekAeySi1 votes

You only lose like -3LP for the first dodge, and your MMR is unaffected so your extra LP gains (because of the relative league -> MMR position) even it out anyway. This is basically what stops people from doing a popular activity in S2 which was to Elo tank via dodging to sub-500 for a variety of reasons. Since you can't tank your MMR without actually losing games it's no longer possible.

It's very rare that I bother to dodge nowadays but when I was in Silver I'd dodge situations I knew were going to turn ugly a lot. I remember one game in particular where this duo queue (surprise surprise) started flipping out because they didn't get exactly what they wanted and locked in two troll picks, that alone wasn't enough for me to dodge (I don't care what you wanna play) but then one of them ragequit and the other AFKed and it was pretty much a done deal. Still could've possibly won that game but at that point I just wanted out, and I felt stupid for not just sinking the -3LP for the dodge to begin with.

Rashid1 votes

ALL 빌어 먹을

NoMonku1 votes

That's why its better to play normals :). Less rage and more willingness to learn. In ranked a lot of people think they are the "best" and that everyone else sucks, so if they don't get to carry they will throw the game away. I feel its too hard to implement a system where it rewards you for playing well, as it will turn it into an even worse system imo. It will make people only CARE about things like KDA and what THEY did, instead of how they contributed. There is no actual easy solution imo, so it's not really worth it to change it to something that will most likely cause more rage/drama among the playerbase then the current one already has. Also they could just be waiting for season's to change to try something different. While it could possibly be a bad system, I say its more fair for everyone to "compete" on the same system for the whole season then change it right at the end.

ShadowNinetails1 votes

By "a way for games like this to account for the players personal participation", do you mean having KDA affect LP gains and losses? Because that's a giant middle finger to support players which would only serve to create more situations like this.

Gumurak1 votes

No, because kda can be fluffed. What I mean is maybe making the punishment less severe. Like maybe the system notices 1 offline and an obvious afk istting at base. So it lowers the amount of lp you lose. And then puts the extra lp loss on the ones who left. I understand that there really isn't a system you can design that would take the single player into account. But it really shouldn't punish the effected so hard either.

ShadowNinetails1 votes

So if my team is losing hard, all I have to do is make one or two guys d/c or afk and I don't get hit as hard? Whelp, time to bring on the toxic.

Gumurak1 votes

Considering it's their choice to afk and you can't really make someone do it. that would still be their fault. I didn't say my idea was perfect.

ShadowNinetails1 votes

So you're saying that if I rage at you, follow you around stealing all your farm and kills, call out your position to the enemy team, call you names, call out racial slurs, make a flurry of bigoted remarks, ping spam, and display a whole assortment of other toxic behaviors in an effort to make you want to stop playing and uninstall the game, it's not my fault if you actually do it?

Also DDoS.

Gumurak1 votes

So you're saying that if I rage at you, follow you around stealing all your farm and kills, call out your position to the enemy team, call you names, call out racial slurs, make a flurry of bigoted remarks, ping spam, and display a whole assortment of other toxic behaviors in an effort to make you want to stop playing and uninstall the game, it's not my fault if you actually do it?

Also DDoS.

No it's not, because I can just as equally ignore you and report you at the end of the game. As annoying as it may be trolls don't hammer me out that hard. And I won't say that I don't get frustrated. But I'm perfectly capable of finishing my game and then doing what needs to be done. In which case puts you in the wrong. And falls under what I mentioned earlier. it's the same as real life. You can't beat the guys a$$ for hitting your car without consequence. When you can simply control yourself and go to court. And the person that controls themselves shouldn't be punished. If you can't handle that kind of pressure it's a personal problem. My only problem and what you have skipped over in this discussion is that the people who do those things deserve harder punishment than the ones that don't.

ShadowNinetails1 votes

  1. I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist. I'm saying your proposed solution would, in spite of its good intentions, only exacerbate it. This proposal has been tossed up a great number of times over the years and every study Lyte and his team have done as well as those by other similar teams point to it being more of a poison than a medicine. Any time you make an addition to a system to show leniency to a certain specific group WILL be abused by a different group. Mutes and reports are well and good, but they are purely reactionary measures (like sending your iPhone to be repaired because the screen cracked). To combat and prevent toxicity altogether, you have to create more proactive measures (like using screen protectors).

  2. Despite how easy it is to mute people, most people don't do it. It's like saying "all you have to do to beat Blitz is not get hooked", but for the 6,000,000+ people in Silver and below, that's not generally something that happens. Myself I prefer to only mute people when I'm sure they have absolutely nothing of value to say anymore and have no intentions of saying anything useful. I once had a Tryndamere that spouted terrible stuff at everybody at every chance because he was on tilt from a 5 game losing streak, but since I didn't mute him right away toward the end he got a little better and we were able to coordinate a last ditch base race and wound up winning the game. It would've been easier if the rest of the team had unmuted him, but I can understand why they didn't. I sure as hell ignored and reported him after, but he still got me some LP.

  3. When you consider the law of averages and the way the ELO system works, toxic players don't really matter. Assuming you don't believe that the system is stacked against you personally, you'd agree that there is just as much a chance that "that guy" is on the other team making them implode instead, yes? Well actually, if we're assuming you yourself aren't toxic, there's actually a HIGHER chance of toxic players landing on the other team because there's 5 chances for that while only 4 chances for them to be on yours. If you've played more than 50 games, at least one of them probably would've gone against you if not for that happening. And over the course of hundreds or thousands of games, the percentage of games that go one way or the other solely because of bad players or toxic behavior becomes more and more insignificant. In the end, if you play enough you end up where you deserve to be. There is no "Elo Hell" except the one you make for yourself.

  4. DDoS

Tebryn1 votes

Hi Gumurak,

i've been around since short after beta and play ranked since season 2 and have to say i prefer it way over normal games.

Yes you are right there are these people you just descriped no doupt about it but you have them in the same rate in normal games (with 5000+ games played i atleast imagine that i have enough experience that i can say that). For me there is one huge difference between normal and rankeds and that is a horizon to head for. What i experienced (in all seasons) that the more you get up the less shitty, flamy, troll games you have. When in silver every second/third game in average had some kind of troll/flame/afk in gold it just was every fourth and in platin it was just every fifth (i just got plat in this season for the first time but i dont think there will be a crazy breakoff in diamond). Many may disagree but that is my point of view. So why would that be? Like its displayed sometimes in the loadingscreen players that flame (and troll anyway) lose more of their games so they dont get that high ofcause there are still some of them even at the top (most popular example IWillDominate which played in the LCS and still got a permaban for beeing one of the most toxic players in season 3) but they get lesser.

Now you might ask what should i do i ALWAYS get these!? First in the overall average EVERY player gets the same amount of flamer, trolls, afks like every other player after X games played (there is no system in lol that says "yeah lets match up this guy only with the worse! >:D" ). So thats no factor in ranked games everybody rise and then falls just because they get that one troll streek. The differnce is how good YOU played in all of the games (the good and the trolly ones). Sure you might give your best but still lose because one guy just trolls but when you always give your best you might even win one of these games (had such games in one particular we had one that just constantly ran into the tower to feed the enemy after everyone ignored him in the chat and we start always engaging when the enemys start attacking him and we won the game with a 1/31 guy). But nevertheless you can make some of theses games or not you always rise your chances to get up in the overall view.

I just can give you these advises:

  • Always give your best even if troll games or you are yourself behind in the game.
  • Mute trolls (dont feed the trolls) or guys that make you angry BEFOR you start flaming back.
  • If your teammates start fighting eachother sometimes a "guys chill we can still win" cools them a little off. (dont try to argue because you will just get sucked into it)
  • Try to encourage people when they did something good (a little "gj sora :)" after they did something...good can change alot how hard people try to be good)
  • If you have the time try to be able to play on each position that will defuse the "Nobody-Supports" problematic and you can let the "mid-or-feed-guys" their lanes.
  • Honor people after the game if they did something good so you do something for the game behavior over all.

So i hope i covered all and the last thing i can say to you dont give up always head for the horizon.

Ada Wong1 votes

Two things.

. Riot honestly needs to add (Player Behavior Section back.)

. The in game behavior the last two days I have played has been 100x worse than like 1-2 weeks ago when I last played.

The problem I have experienced all day today in many games is players immediately calling roles as soon as game starts so my main role gets taken, and so at the moment I am forced to either play Bottom Lane, or Mid due to the champion select bug with 3 of the different champions I main Top Lane.

Anyways to get to the point All day long today I have experienced players who don't say anything at all, Lock some type of ADC / Support that doesn't fit into the team build which I will not play with because it will not work, players who go AFK during champion select to Grab Coke, Grab Dinner, AFK's during game, and In Game Chat harassment over (Meta Breaking) Myself after I was perfectly clear in champion select that if I got absolutely no communication I would have to (Meta Break.)

.Mute trolls (don't feed the trolls) or guys that make you angry BEFOR you start flaming back.

This can work, however the moment players (Refuse) to cooperate so do I lets face it yesterday there were 3 games I was in where players argue in champion select, players admit to going AFK in some games, and my first game of the day was trolled because players admit to joking around in champion select, to get to the point the moment something is called if players get (Toxic) in chat and refuse to listen to calls or say (Muted) then I just split push / go for objectives solo no point in trying to do anything when I got a bunch non cooperative toxic players in a game which is going bad who think they have to stay in a lane until they knock down a turret or two and feeding a lot of kills rather than grouping earlier or contesting objectives when our team has the upper advantage.

So using the Mute / Ignore function is fine if players get (Toxic) in chat with hateful words I use it any time someone Questions a call in a game and starts a debate over it however I have personally seen having to use this function on your team and go your own way in the game does increase the chance of loss.

However with this said yesterday besides all the Champion Select Issues, and Meta Breaks, I actually had like 4 good games where players actually worked together. I am not totally against doing odd things with champions I have seen a Support Ashe recently, and a Support Leblanc, and both games were wins wins once was the enemy team breaking meta once was our team, I have no problem with odd things being done as long as I am not forced to play with something that doesn't fit into the way I am playing, or has no idea what they are doing rather say..

I don't think its Riot's job to enforce a (Meta) or specific way players choose to play, but I think it would help resolve a lot of issues with champion select if players could choose to search for (Ranked Match Making) Solo Queue based off the Standard Meta and roles they are willing to play in rather than Team Builder for example, I think this would solve a lot of problems with Toxicity in the champion select screen which I have seen a lot recently.

Yes I could also Dodge every game, but with the amount of games where players (Refused to Communicate) in champion select, the amount of games where all I hear is players calling Mid, or players arguing over Jungle in some cases this would be a ton of LP loss, and a lot of 30 minute game bans being unable to play because of it.

Anyways with all this said after awhile you just (Honestly Don't Care) about win or lose anymore when it comes to toxic's in your game because it happens so much.

Gumurak1 votes

I appreciate all the comments guys. However I'm not in need of a pep talk on how ranked works. it's not my first season. I just think it's high time riot addressed the fact of how hard players get punished when trying to gain rank. When affected by such blatant stupidity. it's one thing to lose and take your beating. it's another when a player plays bad, which is still acceptable. But this? These people should be held accountable for their actions. Without negatively affecting the players who got put there by random. I understand it in normal. But in ranked? It's competitive with rewards. Those rewards shouldn't be stripped or harder to gain due to the inappropriate actions of others. And I think it's time riot addressed it

chibba

Blah, I am a diamond 1 smurf, and I was playing on my silver smurf account. And this is what happened in my ranked game.

This ez can't cs, literally has 100 cs and score was like 3/13 in 40 mins game. And our thresh does not have the ward item in the god dam entire game. This thresh literally said it's a team game, I don't need ward. GOD DAM THIS GIVES ME CRAP! This makes me ask myself am I really a diamond player because I can't carry these fags and win a game in fking 13xx elo when myself is almost 23xx elo. I also try my best in every game, yet i am losing way too much games because of dumb asses. I suppose when these dumb asses are in a game, I actually in a normal game not ranked game.

NOTE: JUNGLER GOES GANK AND END UP GIVING DOUBLE BUFFS! JUNGLER STAYS TOP TO STEAL RED WHILE BOT LANE IS BACKFIRED WITH 4 MEN GANK. WORSE BUT NOT LEAST A FIZZ MID ROAMING WHILE OUR MID DOES SHET!

TUfekAeySi3 votes

What's your Dia1 account's name? To be honest you don't sound like a Dia smurf.

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