Griefing in Ban Phase

Pathalen··20 votes·11,977 views

Alright so I'll be rather blunt here. This is an issue that is either very or moderately frequent, specifically the cases where an ally bans your champion. Let's go over the scenarios, if it's them banning your champion when you haven't even selected or stated it, then it is your fault for not highlighting it on time when you have 15 seconds. The scenarios I'm concerned over though are the ones in which an ally does this, while knowing you intend to play them for a different reason. Several times, I've had scenarios where someone wants to trade with me in the draft pick which isn't a strange occurrence in any way and is fine, but in said scenarios, about a third of the time when i decline and have highlighted a champion, they ban said champion; to spite you, to get you to rage quit the champ select so they have another chance at their role, either way they grief, in a way in which they ruin your game as you will be time banned if you skipped, MMR and points will be reduced if it's a ranked game and there is no way to escape this or for them to be disciplined for it, for they can only laugh at you as things go their way while the rest of the team usually doesn't care or tell you the all too standard ''chill'' and ''stop cry/crying'' quotes they've so well memorized. Another scenario, is them disagreeing with your pick. It doesn't matter if it's due to them thinking it's a low win rate champion, a non-meta choice or that you're too late of a pick and they don't want the risk of the enemy getting the champion you want to play instead since they don't like playing against said champion. Now, in the last of those scenarios, at least there's some logical reason. Acceptable? I'd highly disagree. But at least they're thinking and i can't really be that mad over it. In the other two, they're just being a bunch of jerks, ruining your chance to play something you want, ruining your fun, much like the first one, they're screwing you over for their own pleasure while treating you as something below them, glaring at you daring to have an opinion or wanting to play this or that uncharacteristic pick. In said last scenario, the team aside from not caring, can outright be hostile, not that that doesn't happen in the very first of examples, but in this they would join up, gang up and treat you like the dirt beneath their feet, except worse. All for trying something a bit different on a normal game and the such. And finally the "other' reasons. I don't really have a better word for this. Simply put, I'll give one example. I highlighted Soraka, intending to play that as a support, a meta pick which was also very strong at the time i intended to play her. Our top laner proceeded to ban her after seeing me highlight her. I remember how i started with the phrase, "Dude, i wanted to play her. Why did you ban her?'. His simple answer was "I don't like soraka" or "I hate soraka", i can't quite recall if it was like or hate but otherwise that was his precise statement. Any attempts at reasoning were ignored, he just laughed and insulted me for being a ''garbage'' player that would play the champion he didn't happen to like, the team not giving a damn or even stirring him on or joining in on his fun. There are hostile and quite, let's say dis-likable players to say it in the least, and dealing with them isn't going to be a snap of the fingers. Monitoring the champion select doesn't seem like it'll be something focused on any time soon either and even if it was it would only work to punish this griefing, which isn't honestly the solution I personally would go after. I think we need a simple method to just deny this possibility. And there's a relatively simple one indeed. At least by my understanding. Being to highlight champs is a very nice feature, it works with communication, helps in bans and is an overall boon that helps the pace at which champion select proceeds by a large margin, however, it also more so enables the banning of allied champions as you can clear as day see what they want and react fast and ruin their game in an instant. Simply put, I believe it would be best if "highlighting" a champion in the pre-ban phase should make it so they can't be banned. That way if you select this or that champion, no "ally" can abuse it to instantly ban what you want for any of the above reasons or whatever the scallywag they can think up of for their own sadistic pleasures. It'll just gray out said champion and make it impossible for allies to proceed with such griefing. Yes, if someone were to miss-click or anything of the sort, that could be an issue by them confusing the -pre-ban with the ban phase, but come on, if they're that distracted it's their fault. That's pretty much it. I think this is a very much overlooked problem that needs to be properly addressed as too many players end up AFK waiting 30 minutes to start a game, panic pick something or some other conundrum after someone screws them over for their own twisted sense of joy or just because they weren't fond of what they got as a pick. So. What do you think? Do you agree with this method? Do you have any idea how it can be better or a different one. Please do give your opinions. This should be dealt with and the only way Riot with accept an incentive for that and act is if we ourselves were to act and call out to them first.

P.S. - I decided that it might help to add a poll. Simply put, note if you believe that highlights should gray out champions and make it so they can't be banned or not. Would be interesting to say a more statistic feedback on said idea. Much obliged for your vote and opinion, thank you for your support.

EDIT: To avoid the dangers of miss-selecting the champion you want to ban and them being un-bannable, instead of making it so the highlighted champion can't be banned, it should make it so the highlighted champion can't be banned by anyone other than you, fixing the only real problem that could arise from this idea. Thank you for noting my oversight DuskDaUmbreon.

EDIT: A lot of people have been noting two problems that could arise from that so let's look over them in order. 1 - Highlighting someone people want to be banned so said champion can't be banned as an attempt to grief your own team. This isn't really a problem since the highlight phase comes first and the ban one right after, making it impossible for them to read your mind and chose someone you want to ban unless you specifically wrote "ban ----" in chat which can be avoided by writing it and simply waiting to enter it exactly when the ban phase starts. 2 - A more prominent note is the usual considered overly strong champion picks. If an ally highlights one of the currently considered as overpowered champions, be it to pick them or so you can't ban because they have a desire to grief. In the second scenario, if they're really going that far, without any reason to grief anyone specific and just ruin it for the whole team, it seems like they'll do plenty enough in game to make this kind of action pale in comparison. In the first one though, while of course, there is no perfect way around it, it isn't impossible to deal with. For one, a champion can always be picked away from even your first pick if the enemy is "the" first pick of this select, not to mention that in all honestly, well over 30 or so champions deserve an equal title of scallywag overpowered, meaning that you'll never really be able to deal with them fully. To potentially avoid such threats of a champion you really don't like, we can go back on communication, or at least attempts on that. If the highlight phase is simply increased in duration from 15 to a not at all too long 30 seconds, you'll have time to tell them you really can't deal with this or that and so forth and they may swap their highlight or ban the champion themselves, even if it is a bit of wishful thinking it's not an impossibility. That being said, you also have the potential to counter pick if that champion happens to be selected, and obviously, if you happen to have an ally's champion, you can trade with them if you're a sooner pick, avoiding such dangers instead of forcing them out of picking a champion they're comfortable with. Since this worry is mainly focused on the overpowered champions, they're far too many to cover with 10 bans, regardless 5, and usually a lot of people tend to have them, which would mean you won't be able to deal with all of them on your ban phase and regardless still probably need to outright outplay or counter pick them. So yes, some attempts at communication, picking for allies, a number of solutions are available to better this problem.

61 Comments

Gabresol16 votes

I dunno... Let's think back before the Kai'sa nerf for a secound. She had a 57% winrate and was pick or ban.

I think it is safe to assume that my last pick adc is not gonna get her when the enemies have the first pick. But then they hover her and the enemy takes her. These are the kind of scenarios which would really be problamatic.

Perma CC11 votes

Because of this I just dont highlight what im going to play anymore.

Zed genius8 votes

What tilts me more is when people ask for your role and you don't want to swap, they ban your champion and ask again. Like I didn't want to trade when you politely asked me what makes you think I will now that you are being a dick?

Aptest2 votes

+1.

i generally also pick their hovered champion in these cases.

Tokogawaruf1 votes

Not really the art of a true gentlemen, but deserved nevertheless.

Aptest1 votes

A true gentleman uses his wit and guile to check douches, when he encounters them.

A douche must always be in a mind, that he will be more upset than the person he is trying to spite. If this is not done, douches will troll and threaten and hold lobbies hostage to get their way. They will "mid or feed" whenever they are autofilled and they will do so with impunity.

Thus you should 1-up the trolls and the douches. Be witty and polite and stay within the boundaries of what is acceptable to say in polite society - but make them rage. The other guys should always know, that you can and will out-troll them.

A true gentleman does not play, to better his own experience. He plays, to better the game as a whole. That is the responsibility that a true man takes upon himself: To shelter the cowardly and the ignorant under the wings of his trollyness.

The Beholder7 votes

So much this. I cant tell you how many times I try to play champs like Zilean or A Sol and someone on my team bans them because they want to spite me or because they want me to play something else but cant ask (had my adc ban zilean because "he is the worst support, play brand"

D Mythos8 votes

I bet they don't even ask if you own Brand.

The Beholder6 votes

Nope. Made him mad too when he found out I didnt

Perma CC3 votes

{quoted}

So much this. I cant tell you how many times I try to play champs like Zilean or A Sol and someone on my team bans them because they want to spite me or because they want me to play something else but cant ask (had my adc ban zilean because "he is the worst support, play brand"

Honestly. Better to not highlight what you're going to play... thats what i do.

Snowman Arc3 votes

Dude, you are 1-4 on ZIlean and 0-3 on ASol. You getting those champions will probably mean that you are gonna lose the game. I'd ban those champions as well if I had you in my team.

Mitko33338 votes

And I'd report you as well if i had you on my team.

Snowman Arc3 votes

Report me for what? For wanting more chances to win the game? People like you are so sensitive over being called bad, when there is proof you are bad. Your combined win rate on those 2 champions is like 14%. Essentially, when going into a game with you, I have a 14% chance to win. No thanks, I'd take my chances and let you play something else that you might actually perform better on.

Again, you can't report me for banning your champ. I can ban whatever I feel like, same way you can ban whatever you feel like. If I wanna ban a champion you are proven to be bad at, then that's my right, but it's also the correct thing to do if I wanna have chances to win.

Pathalen7 votes

Seeing an attitude like yours, assuming people's capabilities while arrogantly considering yourself above them, I'd have to agree, you spew insults and consider people bad while forsaking all forms of teamwork and would gladly grief your allies in the post game lobby the exact way most people here agree is quite wrong. i'd find you to be report worthy as well. No one is proven to be good or bad at anything, you still haven't played any game with them, the only thing i'd see as proven is your bad attitude and personality as well as your toxicity. You yourself destroy your own chances to win, and sadly with that you drag down the rest of your team all while treating some of them condescendingly by your own avid description.

Snowman Arc3 votes

Wait, did I create that 14% winrate on your two champions? How did I do that? You have a 14% win rate, not me. I'm good sitting at 60% win rate on my main champion, which is why I'm in platinum elo while you have been stuck in gold for 5 seasons now.

You, and all the other people who agree with you, have the exact same mindset, which is exactly what keeps you from winning games and climbing. You keep trying to play the good fight, and appeal to your team and "hey, it's all about having fun" right? No, it's not. When people play ranked games, they have a goal. Some people have aspirations, some people want to climb up, some people might try to go professional and make money out of it. Do you know what these people want? They want to eliminate the chances that won't allow them to do so. They want to eliminate anything that has a chance of stopping them from winning.

Your 14% win rate champions is one of those chances, so any player who wants to climb up and wants to have more chances to win is having every right to ban them, and is one good solid plan as well. If you want to have fun, play normal games where nothing is at stake. If I wanna have fun and play whatever the fuck I feel like, I will play normal games where I know everyone will be having fun, but there is nothing else at stake.

This is why you low elo players will stay low elo. It's because you only play ranked games for fun. You only play ranked games as if there's nothing different than normal games, when in all reality, it's a completely different game. You go into ranked with the same mindset as you go into normals; mess around, have fun, and if we lose, it's ok, so I'll just pick this champion I've done horribly with to have fun, and not care about the other 4 people in my team who probably wanna climb and will tryhard to see it happen.

You are the reason why 2 people in the same elo can have such different performances, and why people call others "boosted" or why people complain that the ranking system is shit and the divisions and ranks are all mixed up. It's people like you who don't give a fuck about other people and want to just mess around. It's people like you as to why silver elo is such a shitfest and why you constantly get threads as to how it's the coinflip elo. It's people like you who have completely destroyed the game, and all you do is just complain about how matchmaking is shit and how you get boosted with bad teammates, while in reality, you are the boosted player. You, and your 14% win rate champions.

ScoutNorway8 votes

Called ego

Snowman Arc3 votes

[deleted]

D Mythos7 votes

I like that phrase, "by someone higher", said like a true tyrant.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Nah, it's just that you guys are bronze and I'm Plat, so I generally have a better understanding on how climbing or the game works.

5050BS7 votes

I had a game where the Top laner (4th pick) wanted Graves, Jungle (2nd Pick) also wanted Graves. So Top laner Banned Graves.....

This should be bannable behavior .

Mitko33336 votes

You missed the part where they ask us if we think we're those pros that do those wacky picks on their streams and tell us to get real, but yeah, that kind of sums it up XD. I'm for Un-bannable.

Cloud2736 votes

Even if I don't highlight someone in the first 15 seconds, if I say plz don't ban this champ I expect my team to not do it.

RocketRelm1 votes

Now is that "expect" in the sense of "I expect them not to ban it"? Or "expect" in the sense of "it would be wrong for them to ban it but they gon' do it anyway"?

YoNightmare75 votes

That would solve some issues for sure.

(Highlight champs = unbannable)

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

Only one issue is that you should still be able to ban it.

There are a lot of times I've accidentally selected the champion I wanted to ban...

Pathalen5 votes

Just noting from my west account, it's pretty much, or rather absolutely the same here. Well, aside from the fact that they don't take away draft randomly for about 8 hours every day but yeah, you get the picture.

Von Everly5 votes

I like playing weird things so whenever people ban my champ say Mordekaiser when I want to support I always just choose something super dumb and horrible like Kha support , but instead of feeding or doing horrible I play actual support so my adc gets super mad at me and tries to get me reported but there isnt anything to report me for so they just scream at me in chat when im theoretically doing nothing wrong.

BestPudgeNA1 votes

I don't agree, I fully understand you can use bans to "grief" someone. But quite often people have a permaban champ and when someone on their team hovers that champ, it puts them in a really awkward spot, either ban the champ they hate and risk their teammate inting or leave that champ open only to have the other team take it and 1v9, have a really toxic lane phase ect.

Preventing champ bans of hovers also wouldn't solve the problem entirely because it would open up other options for griefing. For example players could hover champs they have no intention of playing to prevent their teammates from banning it, the new "griefing" meta.

[{quoted}](name=Anti Arceus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EpivfsPn,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-05-12T02:56:07.307+0000)

I like playing weird things so whenever people ban my champ say Mordekaiser when I want to support I always just choose something super dumb and horrible like Kha support , but instead of feeding or doing horrible I play actual support so my adc gets super mad at me and tries to get me reported but there isnt anything to report me for so they just scream at me in chat when im theoretically doing nothing wrong.

So you int in a passive-aggressive fashion so you avoid getting banned for inting.

im theoretically doing nothing wrong.

Lel you're inting.. you probably think b-but i'm inting the person who wronged me, meanwhile their is 3 other people on you team that didn't wrong you and don't want you to play Kha support.

Von Everly2 votes

{quoted}

I don't agree, I fully understand you can use bans to "grief" someone. But quite often people have a permaban champ and when someone on their team hovers that champ, it puts them in a really awkward spot, either ban the champ they hate and risk their teammate inting or leave that champ open only to have the other team take it and 1v9, have a really toxic lane phase ect.

Preventing champ bans of hovers also wouldn't solve the problem entirely because it would open up other options for griefing. For example players could hover champs they have no intention of playing to prevent their teammates from banning it, the new "griefing" meta.

So you int in a passive-aggressive fashion so you avoid getting banned for inting.

Lel you're inting.. you probably think b-but i'm inting the person who wronged me, meanwhile their is 3 other people on you team that didn't wrong you and don't want you to play Kha support.

Passive aggressive...probably I would agree on that but im not inting, I try my best and play as well as I can with a champion that really doesnt belong. Ive never fed intentionally in my entire gaming career ( if you can call it that ) I just like making a note to people that im none to be fucked with . If you dont want the enemy team to have the champ I picked go ahead and tell me and ill change but if your just going to be a dick and ban the champ I want to play then ill be a dick right back.

A Nunu5 votes

Oh my god. This. Yes. You have no clue how many times this has happened to me in ranked. I've lost 200LP from it AT LEAST. They ban Nunu just because of my name and they think it's funny to harass me after banning. I can only play Nunu on this account so I'm forced to dodge.

http://www.auplod.com/u/lapuoda6bee.png

Tokogawaruf1 votes

It honestly bugs me that your signature shows Willup yet it says "A Nunu". It shouldn´t but it really bugs me.

A Nunu3 votes

{quoted}

It honestly bugs me that your signature shows Willup yet it says "A Nunu". It shouldn´t but it really bugs me.

Done this before. No idea how people don't see him to be honest :
He's literally right there, man.

https://i.imgur.com/SBTsyGK.jpg/img https://i.imgur.com/C6vCOmN.png/img https://i.imgur.com/D7MFrzT.png/img

Tokogawaruf2 votes

This made my Day ty

Marothennan5 votes

Imagine highlighting the most broken shit so your team can't ban it and then the enemies first pick it

SwiftKitten883 votes

i havent had to do for months but i did for the first time this year

i hovered morgana, and my adc hovered Kalista .

so i was thinking "ok fine morg is horrific with kalista unless the kalista is good AND in voice coms with meso ill go Blitzcrank

but then Kalista bans blitz... so i ask her to not go kalista becuase i cant go morg with her and she banned my support that would work with her, and she writes some arrogant flaming reply which i don't remember. so i have no choice to ban Kalista

becuase every single time i go Morgana with a Kalista adc

and yes this has happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. without fail and EVERY SINGLE TIME has cost us the game WITHOUT FAIL.

when i run in to ulti and item 3157 they pick my up.. and throw me out (or at least drags me to her with breaks all the tethers.

and since i have had enough of that shit. if my ADC hovers kalista and Blitzcrank is banned i ban kalista.. because I'm not dealing with that shit anymore

and i cant stop them from binding to me or unbind myself. which btw, is complete bullshit lore wise. not having a choice to bind to her...

so yeah i think 2 days ago for the first time in months i had to ban a pick my teammate hovered. (and that was only becuase they banned the only pick i had that COULD work with thier choice

luckily somone dogde.. unluckily.. i was unable to report that jerk who what he said in champ select

iflat out told him he banned Blitzcrank and im not going Morgana with a Kalista adc (as a random)

Pathalen8 votes

With all due respect, I'd say you were in the wrong there. While him being rude is something I'd agree is not right, you banning his champion because you disagree with his pick due to your dislike of synergy or his champion is exactly one of the points i highlighted as bad. You yourself stated that by your opinion, support Morgana can work with Kalista if said Kalista plays well and rather than giving her the benefit of the doubt you immediately think lowly of a team mate you just met, expecting them to be incapable of anything and ban their champion away. Yes, you may be on the same lane, but strategizing or simply talking with them and telling them this or that about how you play can potentially help. Their rudeness was uncalled for, but you banning their champion was also a very wrong thing to do. I'm sorry but that's the way i see it.

Snowman Arc3 votes

He is a known troll, don't try to argue.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

With all due respect, I'd say you were in the wrong there. While him being rude is something I'd agree is not right, you banning his champion because you disagree with his pick due to your dislike of synergy or his champion is exactly one of the points i highlighted as bad. You yourself stated that by your opinion, support Morgana can work with Kalista if said Kalista plays well and rather than giving her the benefit of the doubt you immediately think lowly of a team mate you just met, expecting them to be incapable of anything and ban their champion away. Yes, you may be on the same lane, but strategizing or simply talking with them and telling them this or that about how you play can potentially help. Their rudeness was uncalled for, but you banning their champion was also a very wrong thing to do. I'm sorry but that's the way i see it.

the benefit of the doubt? there IS no doubt.

kalista was meta for quite a while and EVERY SINGLE GAME she would pick my up and pull me out of range when i ulti.

and EVERY SINGLE GAME we lost because of it. 100% of the time... no ifs and or butts, if my kalista is NOT in voice coms with my i have lost 100% OF THE KALISTA adc games i have had i went support Morgana

most of the time they dont hover kalista and i lock in morg and am forced to deal with it, when i could have well picked blitz if i knew they were going her

i didnt "instantly" ban her" i only banned her AFTER they banned my Blitzcrank

if the same situation happened aagin i would 100% ban her again. you do NOT have my permission to take control of my char.

this isnt "high elo" the VAST majority of games i get no matter what adc i get they cant play it properly. there is ZERO way in hell i am going to deal with that. i am perfeactly fine playing with a kalista on my team... but then the same kalista goes out and ban MY champ.. and expects me to play with a random Kalista .. as morg they are out of thier minds..

Malix Farwin2 votes

A simple fix would be graying out declared champs.

Snowman Arc2 votes

I didn't read the entire post, but I will go over one point.

If you want to play a champion with which you have a lot of games in and a low winrate (like 45%), then it's completely normal to ban it. If anything, it's actually good that you don't get to play that champion, because it means that you are more likely to lose than win based on your track record. I remember some guy making a point about someone banning his ASol, when he had like 70 games with a 37% winrate and he was wondering why. Honestly, I would ban it as well and not care.

Pathalen6 votes

There was never any detail on win rates, that alone is a long additional EDIT which we can add but is needless due to being far off from the point. That being said, giving an opinion on something you haven't heard or read is just, i don't know where to begin so I'll just leave it at that.

Snowman Arc2 votes

I generally agreed with what I read, I just wanted to add a point on something that you even said you didn't mention.

Silverjust1 votes

but what if there is a pick or ban champ, and your lastpick hovers this champion. What do you do now?

Pathalen4 votes

More than 30 champions would classify as a ''pick or ban'' champion, you have 5 bans thus you're not going to ban all of them for a rather obvious reason. That obviousness aside, there is also a function of trading, helping an ally get their champion by trading with them. It doesn't get more obvious than that, they gave you that function for a reason.

Silverjust1 votes

what I mean is another Kassadin, firstpick does not own him, lastpick hovers him. What do you do?

Pathalen4 votes

It's Kassadin. Who bans him anymore? He's long since lost anything that made him good and went down from maybe the most banned to never banned and exceedingly rarely picked. Can be countered so well too, not that it's even required considering how mediocre he's been made to be.

ShiniXII1 votes

pick nunu

SwiftKitten881 votes

i just dug this up

this is the last time i let Kalista when i was morg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBIPCZgEp6E

we lost the game because of that about 45 seconds later

Pathalen3 votes

You both kill their adc and escape, you caught him, she finished him off and then she ulted you out of you out of their grasps. You can say you lost it due to that but you had turned it into a 4 vs 5 with their adc down if we'd assume that no one else was dead. Your zhonya was on a Q volibear who had just ran out of it anyway, lee could always jump away though he as well was mostly safe, while darius was coming, they had the upper hand in numbers and you would've been surrounded the moment your zhonya ended. All i saw was you both doing well and taking one of theirs down, anything further being a loss would be due to miss-plays, disadvantageous team compositions or simply a too huge gold or push lead on their end. Putting aside that yes, a mistake can be made, I doubt you, I or anyone is flawless ever, I also wouldn't consider what you showed us as a mistake and would say you blaming it on said Kalista is wrong.

KevinSpacey9991 votes

Totally agree... unless it's a yasuo

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