Griefing in Ban Phase

Pathalen·5/11/2018, 9:32:54 PM·20 votes·11,977 views

Alright so I'll be rather blunt here. This is an issue that is either very or moderately frequent, specifically the cases where an ally bans your champion. Let's go over the scenarios, if it's them banning your champion when you haven't even selected or stated it, then it is your fault for not highlighting it on time when you have 15 seconds. The scenarios I'm concerned over though are the ones in which an ally does this, while knowing you intend to play them for a different reason. Several times, I've had scenarios where someone wants to trade with me in the draft pick which isn't a strange occurrence in any way and is fine, but in said scenarios, about a third of the time when i decline and have highlighted a champion, they ban said champion; to spite you, to get you to rage quit the champ select so they have another chance at their role, either way they grief, in a way in which they ruin your game as you will be time banned if you skipped, MMR and points will be reduced if it's a ranked game and there is no way to escape this or for them to be disciplined for it, for they can only laugh at you as things go their way while the rest of the team usually doesn't care or tell you the all too standard ''chill'' and ''stop cry/crying'' quotes they've so well memorized. Another scenario, is them disagreeing with your pick. It doesn't matter if it's due to them thinking it's a low win rate champion, a non-meta choice or that you're too late of a pick and they don't want the risk of the enemy getting the champion you want to play instead since they don't like playing against said champion. Now, in the last of those scenarios, at least there's some logical reason. Acceptable? I'd highly disagree. But at least they're thinking and i can't really be that mad over it. In the other two, they're just being a bunch of jerks, ruining your chance to play something you want, ruining your fun, much like the first one, they're screwing you over for their own pleasure while treating you as something below them, glaring at you daring to have an opinion or wanting to play this or that uncharacteristic pick. In said last scenario, the team aside from not caring, can outright be hostile, not that that doesn't happen in the very first of examples, but in this they would join up, gang up and treat you like the dirt beneath their feet, except worse. All for trying something a bit different on a normal game and the such. And finally the "other' reasons. I don't really have a better word for this. Simply put, I'll give one example. I highlighted Soraka, intending to play that as a support, a meta pick which was also very strong at the time i intended to play her. Our top laner proceeded to ban her after seeing me highlight her. I remember how i started with the phrase, "Dude, i wanted to play her. Why did you ban her?'. His simple answer was "I don't like soraka" or "I hate soraka", i can't quite recall if it was like or hate but otherwise that was his precise statement. Any attempts at reasoning were ignored, he just laughed and insulted me for being a ''garbage'' player that would play the champion he didn't happen to like, the team not giving a damn or even stirring him on or joining in on his fun. There are hostile and quite, let's say dis-likable players to say it in the least, and dealing with them isn't going to be a snap of the fingers. Monitoring the champion select doesn't seem like it'll be something focused on any time soon either and even if it was it would only work to punish this griefing, which isn't honestly the solution I personally would go after. I think we need a simple method to just deny this possibility. And there's a relatively simple one indeed. At least by my understanding. Being to highlight champs is a very nice feature, it works with communication, helps in bans and is an overall boon that helps the pace at which champion select proceeds by a large margin, however, it also more so enables the banning of allied champions as you can clear as day see what they want and react fast and ruin their game in an instant. Simply put, I believe it would be best if "highlighting" a champion in the pre-ban phase should make it so they can't be banned. That way if you select this or that champion, no "ally" can abuse it to instantly ban what you want for any of the above reasons or whatever the scallywag they can think up of for their own sadistic pleasures. It'll just gray out said champion and make it impossible for allies to proceed with such griefing. Yes, if someone were to miss-click or anything of the sort, that could be an issue by them confusing the -pre-ban with the ban phase, but come on, if they're that distracted it's their fault. That's pretty much it. I think this is a very much overlooked problem that needs to be properly addressed as too many players end up AFK waiting 30 minutes to start a game, panic pick something or some other conundrum after someone screws them over for their own twisted sense of joy or just because they weren't fond of what they got as a pick. So. What do you think? Do you agree with this method? Do you have any idea how it can be better or a different one. Please do give your opinions. This should be dealt with and the only way Riot with accept an incentive for that and act is if we ourselves were to act and call out to them first.

P.S. - I decided that it might help to add a poll. Simply put, note if you believe that highlights should gray out champions and make it so they can't be banned or not. Would be interesting to say a more statistic feedback on said idea. Much obliged for your vote and opinion, thank you for your support.

EDIT: To avoid the dangers of miss-selecting the champion you want to ban and them being un-bannable, instead of making it so the highlighted champion can't be banned, it should make it so the highlighted champion can't be banned by anyone other than you, fixing the only real problem that could arise from this idea. Thank you for noting my oversight DuskDaUmbreon.

EDIT: A lot of people have been noting two problems that could arise from that so let's look over them in order. 1 - Highlighting someone people want to be banned so said champion can't be banned as an attempt to grief your own team. This isn't really a problem since the highlight phase comes first and the ban one right after, making it impossible for them to read your mind and chose someone you want to ban unless you specifically wrote "ban ----" in chat which can be avoided by writing it and simply waiting to enter it exactly when the ban phase starts. 2 - A more prominent note is the usual considered overly strong champion picks. If an ally highlights one of the currently considered as overpowered champions, be it to pick them or so you can't ban because they have a desire to grief. In the second scenario, if they're really going that far, without any reason to grief anyone specific and just ruin it for the whole team, it seems like they'll do plenty enough in game to make this kind of action pale in comparison. In the first one though, while of course, there is no perfect way around it, it isn't impossible to deal with. For one, a champion can always be picked away from even your first pick if the enemy is "the" first pick of this select, not to mention that in all honestly, well over 30 or so champions deserve an equal title of scallywag overpowered, meaning that you'll never really be able to deal with them fully. To potentially avoid such threats of a champion you really don't like, we can go back on communication, or at least attempts on that. If the highlight phase is simply increased in duration from 15 to a not at all too long 30 seconds, you'll have time to tell them you really can't deal with this or that and so forth and they may swap their highlight or ban the champion themselves, even if it is a bit of wishful thinking it's not an impossibility. That being said, you also have the potential to counter pick if that champion happens to be selected, and obviously, if you happen to have an ally's champion, you can trade with them if you're a sooner pick, avoiding such dangers instead of forcing them out of picking a champion they're comfortable with. Since this worry is mainly focused on the overpowered champions, they're far too many to cover with 10 bans, regardless 5, and usually a lot of people tend to have them, which would mean you won't be able to deal with all of them on your ban phase and regardless still probably need to outright outplay or counter pick them. So yes, some attempts at communication, picking for allies, a number of solutions are available to better this problem.

61 Comments

Gabresol5/11/2018, 11:06:11 PM16 votes

I dunno... Let's think back before the Kai'sa nerf for a secound. She had a 57% winrate and was pick or ban.

I think it is safe to assume that my last pick adc is not gonna get her when the enemies have the first pick. But then they hover her and the enemy takes her. These are the kind of scenarios which would really be problamatic.

Perma CC5/11/2018, 9:54:25 PM11 votes

Because of this I just dont highlight what im going to play anymore.

Zed genius5/12/2018, 6:14:00 AM8 votes

What tilts me more is when people ask for your role and you don't want to swap, they ban your champion and ask again. Like I didn't want to trade when you politely asked me what makes you think I will now that you are being a dick?

The Beholder5/11/2018, 9:39:41 PM7 votes

So much this. I cant tell you how many times I try to play champs like Zilean or A Sol and someone on my team bans them because they want to spite me or because they want me to play something else but cant ask (had my adc ban zilean because "he is the worst support, play brand"

5050BS5/12/2018, 3:23:01 AM7 votes

I had a game where the Top laner (4th pick) wanted Graves, Jungle (2nd Pick) also wanted Graves. So Top laner Banned Graves.....

This should be bannable behavior .

Mitko33335/11/2018, 9:44:03 PM6 votes

You missed the part where they ask us if we think we're those pros that do those wacky picks on their streams and tell us to get real, but yeah, that kind of sums it up XD. I'm for Un-bannable.

Cloud2735/11/2018, 10:05:03 PM6 votes

Even if I don't highlight someone in the first 15 seconds, if I say plz don't ban this champ I expect my team to not do it.

YoNightmare75/11/2018, 9:38:36 PM5 votes

That would solve some issues for sure.

(Highlight champs = unbannable)

DuskDaUmbreon5/11/2018, 9:49:24 PM5 votes

Only one issue is that you should still be able to ban it.

There are a lot of times I've accidentally selected the champion I wanted to ban...

Pathalen5/11/2018, 9:50:41 PM5 votes

Just noting from my west account, it's pretty much, or rather absolutely the same here. Well, aside from the fact that they don't take away draft randomly for about 8 hours every day but yeah, you get the picture.

Von Everly5/12/2018, 2:56:07 AM5 votes

I like playing weird things so whenever people ban my champ say Mordekaiser when I want to support I always just choose something super dumb and horrible like Kha support , but instead of feeding or doing horrible I play actual support so my adc gets super mad at me and tries to get me reported but there isnt anything to report me for so they just scream at me in chat when im theoretically doing nothing wrong.

A Nunu5/12/2018, 5:54:56 AM5 votes

Oh my god. This. Yes. You have no clue how many times this has happened to me in ranked. I've lost 200LP from it AT LEAST. They ban Nunu just because of my name and they think it's funny to harass me after banning. I can only play Nunu on this account so I'm forced to dodge.

http://www.auplod.com/u/lapuoda6bee.png

Marothennan5/12/2018, 12:04:58 PM5 votes

Imagine highlighting the most broken shit so your team can't ban it and then the enemies first pick it

SwiftKitten885/12/2018, 2:25:39 AM3 votes

i havent had to do for months but i did for the first time this year

i hovered morgana, and my adc hovered Kalista .

so i was thinking "ok fine morg is horrific with kalista unless the kalista is good AND in voice coms with meso ill go Blitzcrank

but then Kalista bans blitz... so i ask her to not go kalista becuase i cant go morg with her and she banned my support that would work with her, and she writes some arrogant flaming reply which i don't remember. so i have no choice to ban Kalista

becuase every single time i go Morgana with a Kalista adc

and yes this has happened EVERY SINGLE TIME. without fail and EVERY SINGLE TIME has cost us the game WITHOUT FAIL.

when i run in to ulti and item 3157 they pick my up.. and throw me out (or at least drags me to her with breaks all the tethers.

and since i have had enough of that shit. if my ADC hovers kalista and Blitzcrank is banned i ban kalista.. because I'm not dealing with that shit anymore

and i cant stop them from binding to me or unbind myself. which btw, is complete bullshit lore wise. not having a choice to bind to her...

so yeah i think 2 days ago for the first time in months i had to ban a pick my teammate hovered. (and that was only becuase they banned the only pick i had that COULD work with thier choice

luckily somone dogde.. unluckily.. i was unable to report that jerk who what he said in champ select

iflat out told him he banned Blitzcrank and im not going Morgana with a Kalista adc (as a random)

Snowman Arc5/12/2018, 10:53:36 AM2 votes

I didn't read the entire post, but I will go over one point.

If you want to play a champion with which you have a lot of games in and a low winrate (like 45%), then it's completely normal to ban it. If anything, it's actually good that you don't get to play that champion, because it means that you are more likely to lose than win based on your track record. I remember some guy making a point about someone banning his ASol, when he had like 70 games with a 37% winrate and he was wondering why. Honestly, I would ban it as well and not care.

Malix Farwin5/12/2018, 7:40:38 AM2 votes

A simple fix would be graying out declared champs.

SwiftKitten885/12/2018, 11:51:15 PM1 votes

i just dug this up

this is the last time i let Kalista when i was morg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBIPCZgEp6E

we lost the game because of that about 45 seconds later

KevinSpacey9995/13/2018, 1:28:42 AM1 votes

Totally agree... unless it's a yasuo

Silverjust5/12/2018, 1:11:11 AM1 votes

but what if there is a pick or ban champ, and your lastpick hovers this champion. What do you do now?

ShiniXII5/12/2018, 2:14:13 PM1 votes

pick nunu