Hard CCs in LoL/MOBAs

Troll2GG··3 votes·1,253 views

Is there really a need for the massive amount of hard CC that exists in MOBAs?

Isn't the concept itself borderline anti-fun considering you're literally NOT playing the game in some cases (stun and knock up). Sure there are a few options for counter play, such as cleanse and quicksilver, against some CC mechanics, but these options are already notably ineffective vs. knock ups and have limited effectiveness vs. chain CC.

The point of the thread is not to say hard CC is op, but that it is limiting the game's entertainment value. There has already been a shift away from silences (Talon, LeBlanc...) to promote counter play options, but there are still plenty of silences around that cripple spell casting champions altogether and there are also binds which act as silences for movement skills, even though many of those skills are significant sources of damage and utility for champions.

Mechanics like the 99% slow that was introduced for Talon could be utilized in place of some such hard CC mechanics to avoid situations where players are severely crippled in terms of play options. Of course there is the concern that champions who rely on short single target stuns or similar effects will become less viable, but I'm not even saying we should take these mechanics out per say. Rather, the primary concern is when players are chained into multiple hard CCs (chain stuns, knock ups, etc.). For this problem I wonder why there isn't some form of natural tenacity that builds upon receiving many CC over a short duration (chain CC). Let's say you got hit by a stun or knock up, then the next one would be 25 or so percent shorter (cumulative). Champions who rely on their stuns to survive, particularly in duels, would not see much change, but highly toxic team compositions that rely on keeping multiple enemies unable to play for several seconds would be somewhat nerfed.

Does anyone really want to be on the receiving end of a 5+ second disable chain? Personally makes me want to avoid ARAM altogether and split push/avoid team fights if possible in standard 5v5.

14 Comments

Spanked eGirl5 votes

If you think LoL has hard CC don't ever play Dota

Matezoide3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Girl Will Carry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EorJAEXE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-05T00:01:22.737+0000)

If you think LoL has hard CC don't ever play Dota

This.

Seriously op stay the fuck away from Dota, some stuff in there makes Amumu's Ultimate look like a single target slow.

Spanked eGirl2 votes

{quoted}

This.

Seriously op stay the fuck away from Dota, some stuff in there makes Amumu's Ultimate look like a single target slow.

Not to mention Pudge with the pull that makes Thresh and Blitz look like chumps with its massive range and true damage

Matezoide1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Girl Will Carry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EorJAEXE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-05T00:06:52.321+0000)

Not to mention Pudge with the pull that makes Thresh and Blitz look like chumps with its massive range and true damage

And dont forget the recent Aghanim buff that makes his hook have a 4 seconds cooldown!

Spanked eGirl2 votes

{quoted}

And dont forget the recent Aghanim buff that makes his hook have a 4 seconds cooldown!

And Aether Lens that gives it the extra 25% range

Troll2GG1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Girl Will Carry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EorJAEXE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-05T00:01:22.737+0000)

If you think LoL has hard CC don't ever play Dota

I played both DotA and HoN before LoL, doesn't really make a difference as long as the chain CC is long enough that you're dead by the end of it (referring to fights with more than a few players involved). Also, anyone who has played those knows there are more options available for counter play depending on the source of hard CC.

Nahui2 votes

Some champions are designed to be countered with hard CC. Without it, mobility would be paramount even moreso than it is now. Anything immobile would be at a disadvantage as they simply would not be able to perform with those that could zip around. That's not to say all immobility has hard CC packed in, but they work very well against targets that get CC'd. Someone like Kassadin has incredible mobility, however a target being CC'd isn't as important for him as someone like say Lux or Zyra who's whole kit is essentially a skill shot and could land so much more damage if the target was still. both of them share a common component as well, and that being immobility.

Troll2GG1 votes

Already stated that the concept of momentary natural tenacity will/should not result in champions running all over those who rely on hard CC for survival. This is mostly referring to larger fights and intentional chain combination CC.

Nahui1 votes

Well chaining CC leaves the rest of the team free. There are many items and mechanics put in place in the game to counter chain CCing. This would add forgiveness to making mistakes if natural tenacity built up and would actually make focusing a waste of resources. This would empower the snowballing mechanic that is rampant right now in games in that locking down fed carries is harder. Chaining CC isn't necessarily as easy as it seems either. I can't think of too many times where I was overly chained, and if I was, most of the resources were blown on me and therefore often resulted in consequences for the other team.

This would also be a nerf to heavy CC champions such as Nautilus, Blitz, and Leona. To implement this would force Riot to actually extend their CC's so that they were still in the same state increased based on the amount of tenacity build up acquired. This, in turn, would overpower them as now their initial balanced CC's have longer values to them.

QSS, Cleanse, Mikhail's, Zhonyas, merc treads and various mobility spells/CC break spells can help chain CCing. In team fights, CC is extremely important in punishing mistakes/forgiving them, and it would devalue mistakes a lot. Someone caught out would have more of a chance when the idea is to punish them for their mistake, but only if the enemy can capitalize on the mistake. Basically exemplifies and stresses giving an advantage to the higher skill level.

And I wouldn't say chain CCing means you aren't playing the game. Not playing the game is dead. Chain CC, you are still working as a target and soaking damage. Even if your character isn't directly taking action commands, it's still heavily impacting the game by soaking damage and cooldowns. You're still playing.

Troll2GG1 votes

Knock ups basically bypass most of the counter options and are readily incorporated into CC chains. As for champions with multiple hard CCs such as Leona, I should have specified that they could be considered an individual source of CC (and thereby don't reduce their own stun length).

OurLestrade2 votes

Dying instantly is pretty anti-fun.

Troll2GG1 votes

{quoted}

Dying instantly is pretty anti-fun.

Of course, but how are you dying instantly? Snowballing and damage balancing is a whole different issue. Also, if you're referring to not having CC to stop someone from killing you, then I agree and already stated that champions who rely on hard CC for dueling/survival will basically be unaffected.

PabloMaster543211 votes

UGH LIKE LEONA.....

Nekusen1 votes

actually, i agree, strong slows would be way more fun than roots and stuns.

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