Graves needs beat with a Nerf Bat

Rito Disunity·Mar 29, 2016·118 votes·8,026 views

In his current state, Graves is entirely too tanky to fit his "ADC" Role.

He's able to build whatever he wants and still do an immense amount of damage thanks to his overloaded kit. At the very least, remove the stacking and refreshing resistances from his E. Once he gets into teamfights, the resistances literally only go away if he dies because he can continuously refresh and stack those resistances making him tankier than our beloved Archduke Susan except Graves has more sustained damage and ~~a cigar~~ better facial hair.

EDIT: Even Lord Dyrone doesn't have a way to beat this guy other than to make sure you camp him to death.

171 Comments

Surfer AsheMar 29, 201640 votes

Gee, it's almost as if Graves' has E nerfs on PBE exactly like the ones you proposed

I guess QQ these days don't even need basic research. Bitch about FotM and boom, free upvotes.

Edit: and what's worse is a stupid gif that is the epitome of "low quality" posting gets more upboats. This place is officially a shitfest circlejerk because anyone with legitimate discussion points that goes against the current hivemind get downvoted so hard their post may as well not exist.

Good work.

/rant

AzteryzMar 29, 201629 votes

idk why people are downvoting you when you are kind of hitting the nail on what you are saying

people who post "graves/zed need to get nerfed" when a there have been nerfs slated for them on the pbe for a week is truly unbearable and redundant imo

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Hello I am BirdMar 29, 201632 votes

It's not what he said, it's how he said it.

TotalJerkMar 29, 201611 votes

Yes, because the only people it's okay to insult here are Rioters.

Big LincolnMar 29, 201625 votes

You mean the nerfs that got reverted? Those nerfs?

That got taken down and aren't going into effect?

AbusingMyRightsMar 29, 20162 votes

rekt

My Waifu VanillaMar 29, 20164 votes

Because that revised E would've arguably been stronger. 130 of each resist is a FUCK TON. Sure it didn't refresh and only lasted 2 seconds but that would've made you unburstable (more than he already is). With Maw he would be rocking 200+ MR for 2 seconds if he saw a LeBlanc or someone try to start shit and he would be tickled by her whole combo.

BârdMar 30, 20165 votes

I feel like if they had gone through, they might have been like the Soraka changes.

The ability to instantly get 120 armor and MR is damn powerful, and he would have been able to keep it refreshed in a teamfight still.

Sahn UzalMar 29, 201625 votes

As far as Graves goes, I adore his tankyness, it really fits his personality (Anyone who disagrees, Re-Read the Burning Tides story, Graves had a burning house collaps on top of him and he just blew his way out.) The thing is that Burst, Sustain damage and Tankyness are not a healthy combination, I'd love to see power shifted away from his Q and R and potentially buff his AA's a little IF he needs it. The second part of his Q could set people on fire, dealing DoT damage instead of raw burst. I feel like that could work c: Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: I honestly think the item 3812 item 3046 build is a large part of what makes him strong btw, I played Graves with the standard FoTM build and with this build: item 3072 item 3009 item 3156 item 3143 item 3053 item 3071 Allthough I really enjoyed Graves as a bruiser, It's a lot weaker than the other build. IMO summoner 31

theragingnerdMar 29, 20166 votes

i'd like him to remain the tanky adc who can live through stuff imo too

The A listerMar 29, 20161 votes

Imo he is not an adc anymore he is more in the jg role, but he dose need a nerf imo.

RoodToobMar 30, 20162 votes

To be fair, one can be an ADC in another role. We've had quinn top, Kindred jungle and Ezreal mid before the preseason, and now even more have gone to other lanes. The only problem with that for me is that we haven't had champions that can go to bot lane instead of ADCs

Sahn UzalMar 30, 20164 votes

I played Gangplank Blitzcrank . I would say it's really strong actually, since GP can farm from a distance and his barrels allow a hook to be really punishing. It's offmeta, but it could be c;

summoner 31

RoodToobMar 30, 20163 votes

I do these things all the time too! its super fun. The issue is that overall, it shouldn't beat an adc support lane. It can due to cheese factor, but these became off meta season two because people were used to them and beat them with adc support

Sahn UzalMar 30, 20164 votes

If I recall correctly, Yasuo was designed as an ADC. Also, Vladimir Lulu is the best lane ever (+1 if you get that one c;) summoner 31

Sniper 0Mar 29, 201611 votes

http://replygif.net/i/1056.gif

The EcdysiastMar 29, 20169 votes

Probably because he's "not an ADC". His damage is melee range.

At least he doesn't have a targeted execute True Damage ultimate like some tanky AD champs.

SpoofghoulMar 29, 20164 votes

well they migh not all deal true damage but every damn ad champ has an execute item 3147

The EcdysiastMar 29, 20162 votes

At least it's still physical damage. Fully designed to be countered by item 3157 .

SpoofghoulMar 29, 20167 votes

item 3157 fully nerfed to counterplay yourself :D

Captain AishiMar 30, 20165 votes

damn I wish i had 425 to 1800 'melee' range on my basic attacks and damaging abilities :P

DorkunedAurasMar 29, 20166 votes

He's not overloaded, he's overtuned. He doesn't have a shitton of excessive mechanics. He simply needs basically all his numbers reduced.

CatastropMar 31, 20164 votes

Thank you. People spout overloaded without even knowing what the term means so much these days.

DorkunedAurasMar 31, 20162 votes

Amen bro/sis

love godMar 29, 20166 votes

Just because graves is a MARKSMAN doesn't make him an ADC. While ADCs are typically MARKSKMEN, not all ADCs are MARKSMEN and not all MARKSMEN are ADCs. Kindred PRIMARY: MARSKMAN PRIMARY ROLE? JUNGLE

alfavhunterMar 29, 20165 votes

How to nerf graves

Base mana cost of his dash reduced by 10 mana

Each stack of resistance from the dash causes it to cost 20 more mana

2 dashes would cost the same mana as live 3+ would become extremely exspensive This means graves (a burst damage adc) would run himself OOM in an extended fight if he was forced to dash constantly removing his power for damage and survival due to having to let stacks drop off because it now costs 100+ Bonus mana per dash, and graves mana pool isn't very big

Nightingales SkyMar 29, 20164 votes

The fact that he can jungle should say a lot about his current state.

Edit: I love breaking the meta and I think anyone can do anything. However, that doesn't mean it should work as well as you would hope, with Graves in his current state he can clear the jungle as if his kit was built for it. His ganks are strong, his ability to push lanes are strong, and his dueling is strong.

despisefulMar 29, 20164 votes

I think due to his range his top and jg play should be riots focus people like like jhin and caitlyn wreck him adc

The EcdysiastMar 29, 20164 votes

Well... That's the only way you're going to get an ADC jungler without healing and %HP damage gimmicks like Kindred. Graves jungle is just as fair as Nidalee or any AA jungler who can get Sated at 14 minutes, Guinsoo's at 16, and GG at 20.

ChaoticPineconeMar 29, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nightingales Sky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcHtUXwU,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-29T16:55:03.757+0000)

His ganks are strong

If you think Grave's ganks are strong, who do you think has weak ganks? Teemo maybe?

Edit - i also dont think its "breaking the meta". There is almost zero reason for his autos to knock back minions/monsters except to jungle. He doesnt really benefit from the knockback in lane. Also, having his Q detonate agasint walls benefits his jungle a lot more than his laning.

TheBestWorstPlyrMar 29, 20164 votes

We can compensate these Graves nerfs with a cigar

Spaceman5pffMar 29, 20163 votes

Because dyrus is known for winning lane....

Sahn UzalMar 29, 20165 votes

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTLY LORD AND SAVIOR DYRUS. MAY HE GIVE THE SWEDISH BOY HIS PASTA summoner 31

NightOfLightMar 29, 20163 votes

The only way to nerf him would to be. Get him addicted to cigars again.

ModKnightsKemplarMar 29, 20163 votes

I agree with others, the tankiness is a nice change of pace for adcs, in a way. I think the magnitude is too much; it could stand to go down quite a bit.

But also, he really needs his burst hit... THAT'S what REALLY doesn't jive with being an adc. The only class that has both good burst and good sustained damage are AD assassins, and they pay for it by being squishy, as well as being melee, neither of which graves has right now. I love the close-range, tanky style of an adc. It's refreshing for the game. But for graves to get right in your face and decimate you with little to no counterplay, like an adc assassin, in addition to that? Just too much.

We can all agree that there's one thing that needs to go in his kit to make him alright. OP thinks it's the tanky, other commenters think it's the sustained dmg, and I think it's the burst. But yes, he needs nerfs. Let's all at least agree on that.

OmiwomMar 30, 20163 votes

lol u think beating him with a bat will work that tanky fucker will just get right back up

J E B A ł T E DMar 30, 20163 votes

implying he was even down to begin with

Supreme Senpai69Mar 30, 20164 votes

The only time he goes down is when Twisted Fate is near

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

wang dang doodleMar 30, 20163 votes

Just nerf the fact that each bullet of his autos apply lifesteal because late game each bullet makes it so his autos do FAR more than 100% of his AD. If only one bullet applies lifesteal, late game he still has full lifesteal because one bullet will deal 100% ad (the reason it ends up doing more is because of the ad stacking if all bullets hit) and it will also nerf his INSANE early lane sustain with Warlord's, Doran's Blade, and the Vampirism mastery.

SheeporothMar 30, 20163 votes

Graves doesn't need nerfs or buffs. He needs his cigar.

Sorry

NitaoMar 29, 20162 votes

Watch this before comment. And look what one not feed Graves can do. Btw. we are talking in Polish language. Free translate: WTF, it's a freaking joke, Rito pls. http://plays.tv/video/56f4480d0749e537ab

ChaoticPineconeMar 29, 20166 votes

I assume you meant "not fed". Which i disagree with - Graves was more fed than the Jhin. Graves had 11950 gold worth of items + baron. Jhin had 11050.

And lets look at what happened - Jhin has a horrible build (building only 20% crit? Graves had more crit than Jhin did). Also, Jhin decided to walk into melee range of Graves while reloading. This means 2 things - 1) You get hit by more pellets, so graves does more damage to you than if you stayed at max autoattack range, and 2) you cant attack during those 2.5 seconds anyway so it was free damage. Jhin is not a dualing ADC. Standing there attacking a champion with lifesteal/crit/damage/attack speed isnt the way to play Jhin. He relies on kiting and poking (Which again, goes to build - getting a zeal item allows you to move a large distance between crits so graves cant continuously auto you).

Next Jhin got hit with the second part of Graves Q. That shouldnt happen.

Jhin attacked a minion with his 2nd to last bullet.

Jhin decided to W (which has a long cast animation) instead of getting his last auto which would have done around 1500 damage. Autoing would have gotten the kill since Graves was at around 500 health. Instead, Jhin decides to cast his W (which he missed anyway).

Skarner played that wrong. Skarner should position himself between the Graves and the Jhin. Grave's autos cant go past units, so Skarner could have blocked every single auto if he was positioned correctly. Skarner went zero damage. Why wasnt he soaking damage?

If you look at the other side, Graves played that perfectly. He kited away from the Jhin during his reloading, and flash-Auto x2 in melee range.

ayNigerianPrinceMar 30, 20165 votes

No other adc is able to do this, nor should they. The problem is that Graves is taking extremely little damage, while doing fuck tons back.

CrossetteMar 30, 20162 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U7qYRoZiT8

RyzeReworkMar 30, 20161 votes

He's 10-2...

CrossetteMar 30, 20161 votes

And how do you manage that against a team riddled with CC as a semi-immobile ADC?

RyzeReworkMar 30, 20161 votes

lol graves isnt semi immobile he has 2 abilities that give him movement and its pretty easy to kill anyone as anyone if ur good enough.. ur trying to put ur self in doms shoes almost one of the best na junglers in the game imo he was the best for the longest time if ur good and have game knowledge then u can do anything the same way if u were in a non skill matchup like yasuo vs ekko where yasuo destroys ekko and it was u as yasuo vs anyone high elo you would get rekt. u cant think like a diamond master challenger unless you are

CrossetteMar 31, 20161 votes

His ult moves him a good... 50 units?

His E is easily interruptible and is more used for tank stats and reloading his passive.

RyzeReworkMar 31, 20161 votes

which still isnt semi immobile he has mobility its a dash he can dash over walls auto attacks reset his dash so... he is mobile?

CrossetteMar 31, 20161 votes

Jhin can reach 800 movement speed and still do his normal damage.

Does that mean he's mobile?

No.

Graves is slow, and basically can't run unless he has his dash. Therefore, semi-mobile. Mobility is generally defined in LoL as having an amount of transportability and speed by nature, ex. LeeSin Ekko