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A summary of all the issues (according to the players) for Riot.

Hyp3rfocus·11/18/2017, 9:47:41 PM·360 votes·26,762 views

Hi

I've been stalking the boards a lot since the preseason started, and there is definitely more negative feedback than positive, so I've decided to make a quick summary of all the issues for Riot to see.

  1. The blue essence system is very unwelcomed. - Whether or not the numbers add up in the long run, and you do make more BE than you would IP .. the system feels very unrewarding the way it's set up. Leveling is becoming a chore, instead of an enjoyable grind. Many people don't seem to like the RNG factor of BE gains you get, and if you end up needing 50-150 BE for a champion you want, you have to play 10 more games to level up, just to get it.

  2. Turrets are ridiculously weak. - Even before preseason this was a complaint that seemed to just get thrown under the rug each time it was brought to the surface. Personally, I believe that a turret should be a safe haven for you; something you feel safe underneath (if you're losing lane hard or the enemy decides to bring 3-4 people), but it's not. Now instead of trying to protect a tower vs 3 people, you know it's better to just back off cause it's becoming impossible to win against tower dives now. Mechanics and strategy should be rewarded when you tower dive, but now all you have to do is stick a level 6 tank underneath it, he tanks 3-5 shots, and walks away with half his health left.

  3. Games are too short/snowball too quickly. - This has been happening since the beginning of season 7 and I think even before that as well. I do agree that having a 40-50 minute game every game would get old, and thus I'm glad that they are shortening it from that amount.. however now every game feels like when one team gets ahead, they stay ahead. This just isn't the right approach to a game like League. Most of the genuine excitement this game offers, is the crazy and unpredictable teamfights, the comebacks, and knowing good teamwork can defeat 1 or 2 really good players. I think they are ignoring this a little too much, and if you don't want to drastically change it, at least fix it up to make it so laning phase doesn't decide the game.

  4. New runes and masteries have everyone doing too much damage. - This kind of goes with #3, but it's definitely a reoccurring topic on the boards. Some people are enjoying this change, they feel like instead of having a few broken champions, now they can all be broken, which turns into a balanced game. My personal opinion on this issue is that the more damage > the shorter the games > the less excitement .. so I think they do need to reduce some damage or add some more defensive stats so that every damage champ doesn't feel like it's supposed to be a burst champion.

  5. The Riot company feeling like it's becoming more and more neglectful. - My opinion on this one is not that strong, however there are some things I've noticed over time. Too many people feel like Riot just doesn't care anymore. This game has gotten huge since it first came out, with eSports, merchandise, the number of players has increased dramatically.. I mean you can't talk to a gamer anymore without them knowing (or playing) League of Legends. I love that this game has had so much success, because it really is an amazing game and it's not difficult to fall in love with it. Success is great, but Riot, you don't want to be a company who gets big and then stops caring about your players. Just because there are opportunities to make more money doesn't mean it's always the best way to go. There are so many people who've been with this game for 5+ years, we are here cause we love the game and we don't want to go anywhere else. Treat us like your children/friends/family ... not like customers. As EA has shown us, even a loved company can become despised because of greed for money.

If this post goes well, I will make another one in a month or 2 stating the positives/fixes or some more negatives if it continues to go that route. If you disagree with what I've said, please don't take it personally.. feel free to voice your opinion and let me know how you feel.

TL:DR- 1. The blue essence system is very unwelcomed. 2. Turrets are ridiculously weak. 3. Games are too short/snowball too quickly. 4. New runes and masteries have everyone doing too much damage. 5. The Riot company feeling like it's becoming more and more neglectful. We love this game, and this company.. we just want everything to feel better for everyone. =)

[vlad-salute]

275 Comments

RiotRiot Calad11/19/2017, 6:28:46 AM81 votes

I like lists. If you ever need to lure me into a thread, concise lists are a good way to do it.

Lemme try and ramble a bit about each of your points and you can call me out if I'm talking nonsense.

1. The blue essence system is very unwelcomed.

We've definitely seen a lot of feedback around the new leveling system. Some of the things you mentioned (like being just short of the BE for your next champion), we're planning on addressing next patch by adding BE to first win of the day and reducing the grind at higher levels.

In regards to how leveling feels, we're keeping an eye on this as well. We do think leveling is a better long-term system for league, so we're probably going to spend some time seeing how the 7.23 changes feel before making any additional changes - but we're watching.

2. Turrets are ridiculously weak.

Turrets have a tough job. They need to balance between being defensible areas of the map while at the same time not being so strong that the whole game revolves around turtling underneath them. That said, Maple Nectar mentioned that they will be getting a small buff in 7.23.

3. Games are too short/snowball too quickly.

Meddler talked a bit about this in his most recent gameplay thoughts post.

TL;DR - Preseason always has the chance to mess with average game length, especially with the Runes changes this year. Average game time hasn't changed too much, but that doesn't mean game pacing is necessarily where it should be. We'll check back in after gathering more data.

I would like to hear more about this from you guys though. Sometimes when I see this feeling expressed on the boards it's in a super exaggerated "All games are decided at 10 minutes" kind of way - which isn't the case (at least in my games, but maybe that's because there's no lead too great for me to throw away.)

If you'd like to talk a bit more about what your ideal pacing of a game of league looks like - I'm all ears.

4. New runes and masteries have everyone doing too much damage.

Probably true! Preseason is always a bit unbalanced, since so many changes are happening at once. We haven't seen too many extreme outliers this year, but there's certainly more tuning to be done. A lot of people are also running squishy assassin comps without a real tank, which could be supplementing this feeling.

5. The Riot company feeling like it's becoming more and more neglectful.

I'm really sad if that's how you feel. The reason most of us were drawn to Riot in the first place is because we care about players, and wanted to work at a company that reflected that care.

It's certainly more challenging to keep in touch with players now compared to the early days- chiefly because there's so many of you! But we're still here, and we still care. I hope we can keep finding better ways to show it.

Chill Vibez11/18/2017, 10:03:50 PM64 votes

Good read.

I think you explained everything well and didn't add too much biased views on it. I also liked how at the end you said "We love this game, and this company.. we just want everything to feel better for everyone. =)" its so true, too many posts come across as hostile or really rude but this is the truth, we're all on the same team here!!!

Only 1 Objective11/18/2017, 10:15:10 PM31 votes

id like to add something to #1

orange essence feels really useless now also. I had tons of skin shards before the new system and now to get a legendary skin or even epic skin it feels like u have to disenchant so many damn shards just to get one. I refuse to purchase anything else related to hextech chests until it starts feeling like I'm getting my moneys worth when I need to disenchant for legendary and epic skins

ENRAG3DCHICKEN11/18/2017, 11:53:00 PM25 votes

and the secret orange essence devaluation

Xenoxi11/19/2017, 5:23:22 AM16 votes

I find it incredibly hilarious that Riot members can take time to comment on a post less popular than this, but when it comes to their community trying to show them things that a majority is disliking, and having problems with, they don't listen. I expect them to end up like EA if this isn't solved professionally soon.

InfinitexMortal11/19/2017, 4:41:22 AM15 votes

You Sir have summed up everything perfectly. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

I think every league player should have a good read through this and give it an upvote so Riot will be forced to do something about it.

MadNzZdotEXE11/19/2017, 3:13:54 AM13 votes

I logged in for the first time ever on my phone just to say.... Thank you.

Crett11/18/2017, 10:20:48 PM12 votes

i have a difference of opinion about 1 personally. i don't mind the new system, but i believe it could easily be made more satisfying (getting 3 450 champs when you level up is pretty bleh) but at least with the new FOTW blue essence bonus coming, you won't get stuck needing 10 IP anymore

idk about 5. riot took a revenue hit with the new runes system for what they seemed to see as a better system for the long term health of the game.

i REALLY agree with 2 3 and 4, at least on a "feel" level. high damage has always flown around in this game, but it feels worse lately, doesn't feel as good for the game, and the pace and flow of the game feel too rapid and volatile.

i love the new runes and all the concepts, but something in systems needs to change to address the pace of the game. i don't think the "snowballing" effect is entirely directly because of one team stomping the other over an early advantage, but that they can then almost invariably end the game before the other team even has a chance to catch up

your post deserves a longer reply from me but im pretty busy lately. hope you get a response from riot.

þaby ghost11/18/2017, 11:05:24 PM10 votes

I believe Riot is actually trying to change the game in a positive direction, i.e. the honor system, and the community could be less critical, i.e. star guardian skins.

That being said, I do actually have a legitimate problem with this new blue ess system. I've been fortunate enough to be able to grind about a level every 1.5 days, but with cripplingly small rewards. Since the change I've made about 1200 blue ess through 7 levels, many shards being worth a pathetic 90 BE. The old system would have me with relatively 2k or more in my pocket, given how much I play. It's ridiculous that league is being transformed into a grind heavy game with this change. The REASOn I play league is because it's quick and fun with grinding OPTIONal for success.

I want to be able to buy zoe on release, but given how unpredictable the loot system is, I don't know if I will even make the mark. On top of that, the cost for mastery upgrades is as much as a champion costs. That sincerely pissed me off. The whole point of this system, as I see it, is to force people to aimlessly grind or pay more cash in order to get what they want in a similar time frame. I consider it a disservice to a loyal fanbase.

Clockwork Madoka11/19/2017, 12:18:05 AM10 votes

You really don't make more BE than IP, especially if you play a larger number of games per day. Counting the first win of the day bonus (575), and the necessary xp to level at level 30 is 2496, you will still need to play several more games to get the same amount of BE/IP, and that assuming you disenchant what you get from the chest (from my experience, everything is often immediately disenchanted, as I already had the champions). The system is far too reliant upon a single dice roll in order to determine the BE you get, and you often don't get to make use of the shard price of BE for several reasons. First, the only way to get BE is to disenchant, which means any time you hold onto a shard, you lose potential BE (and, with expensive champs, an entire levels worth of BE, as you get those individually, rather than packs of 5). Second, you are never guaranteed to get a shard price for many champions, as these champions are far rarer to get from the chests. Third, you are not guaranteed to be free from duplicates, even within the same chest (I got 2 Nunu shards from the same chest last night). This means that their desire to make, in their own words, "easier to unlock the champions you want", backfired horribly, as it is actually far harder to unlock any desired champion.

The rate at which you get BE also begins to fall heavily as the amount of xp per level begins to rise significantly, almost doubling from the requirement at level 30 (2496), to 4600 from 174-175. In the current system, that means that you will most assuredly be earning less BE than you would be IP.

Scary Door11/19/2017, 12:55:53 AM9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Apex ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EcEJ44p4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-18T21:47:41.144+0000)

  1. The blue essence system is very unwelcomed. - Whether or not the numbers add up in the long run, and you do make more BE than you would IP .. the system feels very unrewarding the way it's set up. Leveling is becoming a chore, instead of an enjoyable grind. Many people don't seem to like the RNG factor of BE gains you get, and if you end up needing 50-150 BE for a champion you want, you have to play 10 more games to level up, just to get it.

The biggest issue I have is that Riot's math doesn't add up to what we're seeing. I played 38 games in the last 4 days and have 900 more BE than I did on Wednesday.... that's just awful. It is, objectively, worse than the old system. My problem is that Riot misrepresented this system and some of the fanboys want you to believe it's better when it CLEARLY is not. Even if it was (which it isn't), it feels less satisfying.

By the way, I love Riot's logic to this preseason, "You can now grind for new levels and see your progression", what about showing us visibility as to how we're doing with our honor level, "nah... that feels too much like a grind" ... WHAT?!?

As to the other issues...

Turrets are too weak, but that's mainly because everything and everyone does too much damage. Playing support feels insanely awful right now, you are not only levels behind everyone else but you're even more squishy than ever. Sure, turrets need a buff and a pretty sizable one at that, but the damage needs to be lowered across the board.

Games are decided in the first ten minutes. I have yet to have a summoner's rift game go longer than 28 minutes so far.

korg02311/19/2017, 1:58:28 AM9 votes

Poor game optimization?? Fps drops?

Hyperfocused11/18/2017, 9:51:16 PM8 votes

I'll be honest,I don't have much time so I just read the TLDR.

agree with 1,2,3,5 .I think that 4 will be fixed since it's preseason but I won't deny that I've also noticed a lot more damage coming from everyone.

even though this post seems long,I'm glad someone put everything on one post to clean it up a bit.I definitely plan to read the entire thing after work!

hhaavviikk11/19/2017, 7:59:18 AM7 votes

this lootboxifying of LoL felt like a move of greed, since it's only made IP gain worse, not better, same with orange essence

Bel56211/19/2017, 1:34:59 AM6 votes

And there is no way to view rune stats in replays/end of game.

Syde11/19/2017, 1:42:00 PM5 votes

Lethality is too op, instead of building any defensive items for tanks or just avoiding them as an assassin, you go at them and kill em like they are fucking nothing, that's just broken. Last game with Kayn (even tho i lost), singed built armor and had quite a bit of hp, i did the combo he was dead. Last season, you could try to outplay and you could do it but this one, assassins are 2 op, if someone is ranged or has an engage ability, you cant even run away if they are ahead bc they deal insane amounts of dmg, Ahri plays adc gets solo triple, Nasus 5/3/4 (Forgot to add context for this score to make sense, i was Fizz 11/3 Varus had 9/x and basically we should not be losing that hard) goes into 4 of us, 2 of us die 2 of us run away, or if his team comes you don't even try bc you are fucking dead if its not 5v1 and even when it is at least one dies. (i made acc in like 2012 so lets just ignore my nick, and i don't intend on spending that much on name change), also almost forgot, about BE, my twin is 2 3 lvls below but he got almost 1,5k BE more then me, and its not something i rly like, does like BE system give more BE to players that play less so they'd play more, just giving less to ppl that play more often bc they will get lvls faster, if that's so i'm gonna go and play minecraft and roblox whole day and come and play one or 2 games every evening, cuz i'm gonna spend less time playing league but get more BE. [zombie-brand-clap] Also after making this comment i realized how much better stickers here look than ones in-game but we don't have to pay for them. Should BE system be called BS because it describes it better

Update Well if you play your lane properly and do everything as supposed to, and even get an upper hand on your lane, if your team is performing badly, you lose. So basically last 2 games with Jax i was winning my lane and everything, and when laning phase was over, enemy bot was fed, so even tho i had no problem dealing with any of enemies, my team was feeding them, and they didn't even push, so i'm currently on loss streak bc some maniacs don't wanna push towers and instead try to get kills and fail extremely hard, and just feed enemy, also as it stands, as good as Jax is he can't even 1v3, if one of the enemies has cc, bc he cant attack and enemies already deal insane amounts of dmg. So it would be nice if you could team me up with some normal players that play objectives, thank you very much Rito. [sg-janna]