Lee Sin needs to be nerfed and here's why!

Graviti Squeeze·Jan 25, 2015·13 votes·1,068 views

I see him in almost every freaking game I play. Enough said

15 Comments

qetzelJan 25, 20155 votes

If we are being fair, he is one of the more fun junglers to play. It is only natural that he sees more play because of this.

Painted CeltJan 25, 20156 votes

If we are being fair, he is one of the least fun junglers to play against. No one likes having mega-mobile Lee pop over a wall (you're never going to be able to ward all of them), explode you, then towerdive you for a back-to-back gank the second you get back to lane. This is ridiculously demoralizing when this happens...

And the sad part is that your own jungler is probably not going to be able to do much to help considering Lee has been counterjungling them from the get-go. The chances of anyone catching Lee to punish him is slim with his ward/camp hopping over walls left and right, and obviously your entire team can't spend all game chasing him through your jungle.

qetzelJan 25, 20151 votes

But that isn't really relevant to the topic of discussion which is "Lee Sin is played a lot, too much".

Painted CeltJan 25, 20154 votes

It was relevant to your post. It also reinforces the OP's argument that Lee Sin deserves to be nerfed.

SolaxoJan 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

If we are being fair, he is one of the more fun junglers to play. It is only natural that he sees more play because of this.

Annie is boring as hell yet people kept playing her as support

qetzelJan 26, 20152 votes

True. I was not trying to suggest that the only reason people play Lee Sin is because he is fun. I just think that has to be taken into consideration.

I think the important thing about Lee Sin is that he feels strong. He isn't actually that great (outside of high elo - Diamond +), as suggested by his win rate, but when you play him you feel like a God, and when you play against him it feels like you are playing against a God ( + exageration alert). Don't get me wrong, this does need to be addressed. This is a game, after all, and something in the game that upsets so many people should be changed.

I think that this is something that can only be properly addressed by a rework. I believe that nerfs alone will only serve to make him not viable rather than be good for the overall health of the game.

Spacesuit SpiffJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

True. I was not trying to suggest that the only reason people play Lee Sin is because he is fun. I just think that has to be taken into consideration.

I think the important thing about Lee Sin is that he feels strong. He isn't actually that great (outside of high elo - Diamond +), as suggested by his win rate, but when you play him you feel like a God, and when you play against him it feels like you are playing against a God ( + exageration alert). Don't get me wrong, this does need to be addressed. This is a game, after all, and something in the game that upsets so many people should be changed.

I think that this is something that can only be properly addressed by a rework. I believe that nerfs alone will only serve to make him not viable rather than be good for the overall health of the game.

Yay someone said it... people only notice all the plays Lee makes in the early game, not the fact that he falls off and needs to be carried by his team past 30 minutes. Once lategame rolls around he's just a weaker Reksai with no global pressure and he can only use his disruption move once in a teamfight, not every 5 seconds and every 10 seconds on the same target.

Lee's gameplay very specifically involves trusting randoms in soloq to carry you. Not just work with you and not completely throw the game, actually win the game once you fall off. That's why he only actually does well in Diamond+.

manbearswineJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If we are being fair, he is one of the more fun junglers to play. It is only natural that he sees more play because of this.

people say that about every op champ,then it gets nerfed and you almost never hear from it again.

Remember zed after s3? people claimed him "fun",where did all of his fans go where he dropped from broken tier to simply "rather strong tier"(all it took to get zed back into the op tier were some nerfs to competition,some minor meta shifts,and some minor buffs)?

People need to stop this BS,when a champions is played THAT much,that's not because he is fun,that's because winning is fun and lee gives easy wins to those who are capable of playing him.

Kobila2000Jan 26, 20151 votes

Yes, finally. I hate the "he's played because he's fun" argument. If by "fun" you mean "gives an unfair advantage so people can feel like pros when abusing a broken champion", then yes, he's "fun".

Ulquiorra995Jan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If we are being fair, he is one of the more fun junglers to play. It is only natural that he sees more play because of this.

Oh yes, the biggest reason he is constantly picked in 90% of games, be it LCS, high ranked, low ranked or normal is because he's so fun to play. Totally has nothing to do with his overloaded as hell kit. And all those douchebags banning Lee, they do so only to prevent jungle players from playing such a fun champ out of sheer spite because they don't get to play someone as fun in their roles.

RoyaiChaosJan 25, 20151 votes

Then why don't you ban him?

Graviti SqueezeJan 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Then why don't you ban him?

I do, a lot of other people don't.

Gank in ProgressJan 26, 20151 votes

the question is not why the question is when

OleandervineJan 26, 20151 votes

Let's address a few misconceptions about being overpowered. **

High level of skill to learn does not balance a champion. In turn, win rates do not reflect balance.**

If a champion has a powerfully loaded kit, but takes time to master, that just means it's not entry level OP. The champion is still OP no matter how long it takes for a player to get to mastering it. If a skilled player can create a toxic situation with a champion consistently and by itself, then that champion is not balanced. Hand in hand, due to Lee Sin taking a lot of time to master means those who haven't mastered him will be losing with him. Therefore, his win-rates will be skewed, showing us that many people are learning and losing with a high difficulty champion. When they eventually learn him, they start winning. Given his popularity, there will always be players picking him up and losing because of his difficulty. ** 2. Lee Sin falling off late game and needing to be carried does not make him any less OP.**

The fact that Lee Sin falls of late game does not make him any less OP for early and mid game. The fact that he can single handedly set back nearly every other champion during the early and mid phases will give a vast advantage to his team, to the point that it's OK that he's not so strong late game because the enemy team will be struggling and falling behind.

All of these excuses I see for why he's balanced are simply unfounded. His strengths overwhelm his weaknesses and place his opponents on his level once his power dwindles, as his early presence forces them behind. His difficulty to learn only serves to warp his statistics, which were never a valid show of power to begin with. Lee Sin needs balancing, there is no way around it.

BigIdeaJan 26, 20151 votes

and what if the reason he's being played is that he's fun, not that he is overpowered? nerfs won't change his champion design so nerfing him won't reduce his usage rate. he'll just become pointlessly weaker and, in my opinion, the string of nerfs last season already did more than enough to him. he's barely a threat in any of my games anymore. despite that he's already significantly weaker than he was at his peak, his usage rate hasn't really declined.

you and the others who incessantly request lee nerfs will only get what you all want if lee is deleted or riot to creates another playmaking champion.