DO not blame your elo on trolls and afks
You are there for a reason. Riot's system is perfect, do not blame riot.
42 Comments
VanillaSweetTea7 votesI don't know why you're being downvoted....I'm not saying the system is perfect, but you are silver/gold/whatever for a reason. There's troll in EVERY SINGLE RANK. There's afks in EVERY SINGLE RANK. It's not like Riot is saying "hey, lets fuck this person in particular and give him nothing but trolls and afks"
usul12025 votesthe number of people that believe they're singled out for bad matchups is hilariously huge.
powerbats2 votesthe number of people that believe they're singled out for bad matchups is hilariously huge.
Indeed there's one oster that believes Riot is conspiriong against him in matchmaking and claims it even when faced with evidence to the contrary. He says they're responsible for his lp loss etc etc yet he ragequits at level 1 before anyones even left the base, ragequits/afks all the time, intentionally feeds but yet it's Riot's fault.
It's always I'm Challenger tier material from all these people not that they just plain overestimate their ability or that you can't win every game.
atomicwit2 votesI don't know why you're being downvoted....I'm not saying the system is perfect, but you are silver/gold/whatever for a reason. There's troll in EVERY SINGLE RANK. There's afks in EVERY SINGLE RANK. It's not like Riot is saying "hey, lets fuck this person in particular and give him nothing but trolls and afks"
Exactly, I just got an afk and a troll in a game. I lost that one but I win most others. That's why I climb regardless. Everyone has trolls and afks sometimes and as a result, it makes no difference as far as climbing.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
usul12021 votesTha'ts......... not really true. It is perceived to be true, which is why there is a vocal group about it, but if you play enough games you're going to end up in your elo. might be sooner, might be later, but you will. the MMR system is used world wide to rank millions of people accurately in professional sports. Don't encourage this train of thought, its only true in a very, very small sample size.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
usul12021 votesIndoor football, minor league basketball, and Major League Baseball all use the Elo/MMR system, it is also frequently used to decide gambling dividends throughout the world because of its consistency.
That is also false, Arpad Elo (the guy who invented the system) conducted separate studies, and because the only consistency between different matches is the single player, the system resolves in under 10 games for teams of 5 or less, i do believe the statistic was. its a very small number, a few days of playing. Yes that average is within 3 standard deviations, as all major statistics are, but you aren't going to find a system that doesn't have outliers that take longer.
No, there is no system on earth that will magically put people in the correct spot. That being said, the nature of the bell curve of MMR gains means that you will approach the peak of your bell curve over time, which is why the K factor argument becomes null over a large enough sample size. the system is designed to move people to the right place, not start them there.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Kazaashi1 votesO-o wtf are you talking about? All three of them use straight win/loss %. Gambling dividends are based on betting action.
The studies converged for individuals in single games and team. They did not converge for individuals within team games.
Not having a better system doesn't mean you should be ignoring the flaws of the mmr system. I agree the mmr system works better for league than pretty much anything else at the moment. However, it is irresponsible to ignore it's flaws or pretend there aren't a significant number of players who are not at their true elo. Remember, .1% of a million players is still a thousand.
Can you prove that people are not at thier "true" MMR and unable to climb? MMR isn't something you are born with, it changes and fluctuates with your mood, age, life experience, education, etc.
usul12021 votesSorry, mistype on MLB, meant international, where things are less standardized between teams. Its been a long week, I apologize for small mistakes and typos. Also, a note on this, is that even if its not used by MLB or NFL, there is a very large community of betters that actually have setups that follow the games and work their own elo raitings based on it. The betting results look solid from a quick glance, but it's dead week for me and ain't no body got time fo that.
Initial bet amounts (opening day at the track) are unable to use statistics for how much people are already betting, and therefore have to use a ranking system until a sample size is large enough for the house to set up a winning margin.
The studies were explicitly done to test if the ranking system worked for individuals within a team.
I'm not saying it's ignoring the flaws, I'm saying that the flaws go away when you reach a large enough games played that statistical outliers are unlikely. Those .1% can simply play more games and join the statistical majority through the law of averages. When there is only one consistent factor between games, that factor will show its way to the top of statistical relevance.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
usul12021 votesHere, have a picture for reference.
And that 'how people are predicted to bet' is based on...............!
As for the math behind the elo system in teams, I found some things for you! (separated them out, because this funky board setup doesn't distinguish well if i chain them. sorry for funny coloring.)
And the 'large enough' factor happens quite quickly. even with a K value of 10, the K value error factor goes away quite quickly, seeing as professional chess works with a far smaller match size than league up until challenger.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
usul12021 votes- Modified elo systems generally revolve around the same equation, then modifying the base K value, factoring in or out placement values, and changing how much you gain or lose to make it more variable. The core of how elo works is not modified.
- That's........ not true? The elo system is designed to be a stand alone ranking system and is used because it works as one in many different capacities.
- It literally does the opposite of what you just said. Because the only constant factor between games is a single player, or duo in their case, those entities can be treated as the heaviest weighted value. When all other values have a weight of less than .5% (that's 23 games in, that all other players (assuming you met them once) have a weighting of less than .5%) then the player alone has a large enough consistence to converge values upon their proper ranking, as per statistical standards. >.5% is the standard for allowance for an anomaly.
The reason that most major league sports don't use an elo system, is that there is no need with a sample size that small. a simple w/l/t point system is about as complex as needed when you have a standardized schedule. This is why LCS doesn't use elo, because they have a schedule.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
usul12021 votesThe sources i linked were explicitly for the math on relating elo system for individuals in a team setting, not for the overall elo system itself.
It was created for that, yes. However, it works for individuals.
There will always be a statistical anomaly. I don't pretend it doesn't exist. I'm just an engineer. I'm a firm believer in ALARA, As Low As Reasonably Achievable. Its an acronym in the Nuclear and Radiological industry, that basically means you get radiation levels ALARA, then you ignore them. Because of humans being humans, there is no ranking system in the world that can even out a team game with individual rankings. That .4% exists. and i feel sorry for them, but from an engineers standpoint i just don't care. It isn't possible to fix that amount, they're a statistical anomaly, and it isn't a fixable problem, ergo i spend time fixing what is.
I'm also very apathetic to the situation because i spend a lot of time on the boards, and there are quite a lot of people complaining about the elo system every day, and you can look in their match history and see that they don't deserve to rise in the first 20 sec of looking over their history, at least 90% of the time. Maybe it can be done a better way, but the engineers standpoint works for me. Fix what you can, move on from what will exist in every system ever.
PubgamerAU1 votesI dare you to take a random sampling of lets say.... 20 games from Diamond, and compare them to a random sample of 20 games from Bronze.
Lets put this to the test. Lets compare how many 'trolls and afks' there are in the tiers.
IcyPepper2 votesObviously it'll decline in numbers as you increase in elo, since you have to actually climb (by winning) to get into higher elos.
Afk's aren't always in people's control, so if you disregard trolls and ragequitters, the ratio should be about the same. As for trolls, it'll decline in number as you climb in elo because people are unlikely to spend 200 games to get to plat just to troll that specific elo.
Bronze is going to have more trolls, because it's the easiest tier to get without trying and you can't really fall (a consistent troll is going to drop in rank for the obvious reasons) very far.
But trolls are going to exist, they'll just decline in number. And 20 games is a small sample size, might want to up that to at least 40 for good analysis.
PubgamerAU1 votesSo, what you're saying is, the higher in ranked you climb, the less trolls you encounter?
:O THIS IS NEWS TO EVERYONE
Someone complained that bronze/silver has a fuckton of trolls. Someone else said "WELCOME TO EVERY TIER!" which is blatantly false, since not every tier has a fuckton of trolls. Some tiers have very minimal trolls! You tried to defend the person saying there are a fuckton of trolls in every tier, by saying there's only minimal trolls in higher tiers?!
Get your story straight bro.
DrNova1 votesWe all know this isnt neccesarily true. There have been countless tales of people with lower placement records getting placed highr then people with better placements records. The system starts off whack. And then, when you get stuck lower, you get shittier teams and all the really awful assholes who the system never bans to deal with. You have the odds stacked against you when you get placed low, too climb out. It is almost set up so if you arent gold quality(or whatever is considered good) you cant get out without some luck involved.
Linthe4 votesThere are only 2 threads on LOL boards.
-
It's YOUR fault.
-
It's THEIR fault.
NM.. 3 threads .
- It's Rito's fault.
WTB more pool party Ahri threads.
YOLOswagLYFgg4203 votesIt;s not the trolls, or riot, or you. It's Annie. She holds all the cards, and does not have to use them until she wants. Beg her for your forgiveness.
Annie is love, Annie is life.
Photos of Ghosts3 votes"perfect" calm down.
T RexHasLongLegs1 votesRiot is perfect! Thou shalt not blaspheem the omnipotent rito! Never question, only obey!
Pucking Purrfect3 votesSaid no one ever.
T RexHasLongLegs1 votesYeah, they only said "man I miss bronze I could play whatever the hell I wanted to at that mmr and still win. RIP bronze pub stomping :*(
IcyPepper2 votes"but muh bad teams"
lolipopevelynn2 votesYou are there for a reason. Riot's system is perfect, do not blame riot.
fuck off. when my team gives 4 kills to the enemy mid laner IN THE FIRST 50 SECS, THATS FIFTY SECONDS, AS IN QUADRA KILL BEFORE BUFFS SPAWN, OF THE GAME THEN ITS MY FUCKING TEAMS FAULT. FUCK YOU AND FUCK ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS.
Kazaashi3 votes[{quoted}](name=Hallows Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ET1bvyj2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-04-24T01:10:20.197+0000)
fuck off. when my team gives 4 kills to the enemy mid laner IN THE FIRST 50 SECS, THATS FIFTY SECONDS, AS IN QUADRA KILL BEFORE BUFFS SPAWN, OF THE GAME THEN ITS MY FUCKING TEAMS FAULT. FUCK YOU AND FUCK ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS.
That is one game. So unless you are the unluckiest person who plays LoL, calm down. You can't win them all.
IcyPepper2 votesFirst, that was probably just one game. Yes, you get shitty players.
FUCK YOU AND FUCK ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS.
You are a quite persuasive individual with a certain charisma that can convince others to accept your opinion. It's nice to meet people with such tact, intelligence, and ability to hold civil conversation. With that attitude of yours, you're quite obviously a team player who never rages in-game and never quits no matter the odds.
powerbats1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hallows Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ET1bvyj2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-04-24T01:10:20.197+0000)
fuck off. when my team gives 4 kills to the enemy mid laner IN THE FIRST 50 SECS, THATS FIFTY SECONDS, AS IN QUADRA KILL BEFORE BUFFS SPAWN, OF THE GAME THEN ITS MY FUCKING TEAMS FAULT. FUCK YOU AND FUCK ANYONE WHO THINKS LIKE THIS.
Great attitude there I'm sure you're convincing everyone with your words ehre. Oh and got proof of the quadra before buffs spawn because I went through teh 1st half of your match hsitory losses and didn't see a single qudra according to the stats. If you're going to make outrageous claims you better damn well expect to be able to back them up.
Arcade Andrew2 votesexcept solo Q doesnt determine your skill in a team based game, thats the problem, YOU COULD be playing gold V level with a premade team (one with communication, strats, everyone is good with each other synergywise)
but you get solo Q and its literally saying "hey youre rank here determines your skill level for the entire game and wether or not people will respect your skill and knowledge of the game simply because you are going in solo and expected to carry yourself"
solo Q is the worst way to determine skill of a team game, yet nobody will invite me to a team because im bronze (prior silver V) and they assume im bad because of it
biggad20012 votesexcept solo Q doesnt determine your skill in a team based game, thats the problem, YOU COULD be playing gold V level with a premade team (one with communication, strats, everyone is good with each other synergywise)
but you get solo Q and its literally saying "hey youre rank here determines your skill level for the entire game and wether or not people will respect your skill and knowledge of the game simply because you are going in solo and expected to carry yourself"
solo Q is the worst way to determine skill of a team game, yet nobody will invite me to a team because im bronze (prior silver V) and they assume im bad because of it
You are bad
S H A Y C 02 votesi dont think its anywhere near perfect, but it isnt the elo that makes them trolls or afks..its who they are or just bad luck that they lost connection..and rito servers arent exactly the best. i blame their parents for doing a crap job at raising their children.
DrathTurtle3142 votesNo system is perfect, and placing an individual based on his/her teams' performance may seem unfair. I can't think of a better solution though, because it is so hard to evaluate individual play in a game like this.
Point being, Riot's system isn't perfect, but there isn't one that is. Stop complaining and play the game people
DrNova1 votesThis is just a stupid ego post by someone who got lucky and got a high rank early(likely)
The problem is at lower ranks there are FAR more of these people. Lower ranks are where the real asinine end up, and everyone down there has to deal with them, which adds much more AGAINST their climbing out, outside of the already truly awful people who deserve to never leave bronze. Math.
The Queen Viper1 votesWell it depends. Currently in Diamond 5 the system is totally random... it makes no sense whatsoever that you only gain +10 LP from wins but then you can lose anything between 20 and 30 LP just because someone in your team left the game / DC / ragequit. You can win 3 games in a row but lose the next game and then be back to square one, making zero progress.
But D5 is pretty much an exception. Overall sure, with normal LP gains / losses at the end of the day, you will end up where you belong.
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