Balance Teemo please.

Ivan Pavlov·Sep 1, 2015·36 votes·7,902 views

Hi this is Ivan Pavlov a Teemo pony.

Teemo needs a jump.

Reasons :

How the Teemo Top lane match goes :

Teemo: Teemo's autoattack range : 500 Teemo's Q (Blind shot) range : 550
vs Riven. Riven's skill set without using "R" Q (Broken Wings) RANGE: 260 E (Valor) RANGE: 325 If Teemo can land 1 auto or 1 q to riven, riven can dash on to teemo with 2 abilities and stun, and she has 2 more abilities left to trade teemo. Blind only blocks her auto for 1.5seconds, and slow from mushroom doesn't slow her dashes. 100% death when enemy jungler follows up
vs Irelia Irelia's skills Q (Bladesurge) RANGE: 650 Same story as above, irelia will either slow or stun teemo, and auto teemo to death with true dmg. 100% death when enemy jungler follows up
vs Darius E (Apprehend) RANGE: 550 Teemo hits anything to darius? grab is given. -> dead. 100% death when enemy jungler follows up
vs Chogath Q (Rupture) RANGE: 950 W (Feral Scream) RANGE: 700 E (Vorpal Spikes) RANGE: 500 So um. yeah. chogath doesn't even have to auto attack the teemo, Chogath can auto attack the minions and that vorpal spike actually hits teemo while teemo is trying to hit cho at maximum distance. 100% death when enemy jungler follows up

Just like this, almost every champions can get to teemo easily and bring the cc on him, and Teemo has no tools to get away from those trades, or follow up ganks. The only champions that I consider Teemo is actually good against are Garen and Singed. (no gab closer or hard cc)

Teemo's Mobility

Teemo's 'get away' tool : Move Quick COST: 40 MANA COOLDOWN: 17 Move Quick PASSIVE: Teemo gains bonus movement speed if he hasn't taken damage from enemy champions or turrets for 5 seconds. 「 BONUS MOVEMENT SPEED: 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26% 」 ACTIVE: Teemo doubles his bonus movement speed for 3 seconds and prevents it from being disabled by damage.

So this is the tool Teemo has to use against all those champions with dashes which are about the same range as teemo's autoattack range.

And here is another example of what speed buff of other champion is.

Lulu Whimsy RANGE: 650 COST: 65 MANA COOLDOWN: 18 / 16.5 / 15 / 13.5 / 12 Whimsy ACTIVE: Lulu casts erratic magic upon the target champion, giving them 30% (+ 10% per 100 AP) bonus movement speed for the next few seconds if they are an ally, or Disarm iconSilence icon polymorphing them and Slow icon slowing them by 60 for a shorter duration if they are an enemy. DURATION: 3 / 3.5 / 4 / 4.5 / 5 POLYMORPH DURATION: 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 / 2.25

Lulu gets 30% MS with no ap from lvl 1 W vs Teemo 20% MS lvl 1 W and her speedbuff scales with ap + longer duratoin, while teemo doesn't get ap ratio nor duration increase. -If we compare lulu and Teemo it gets out of hand, let's just call it lulu wins.

The newest patch 5.15 was actually a nerf (including the little buff from 5.16).

I really do not understand why riot calls it buff when they take MORE away to give FEW (USELESS skills) in. Passive buff : Has anyone found this useful yet? In my opinion, this passive is still about as not viable as ashe's passive was before the ashe's rework. The biggiest nerf from 5.15 : Armtime from 1 to 1.5 seconds, If you throw the shroom to enemy, trust me, no one will stand at same spot for 1.5seconds. And what's more saddening me is that, if enemy sees where you place the shroom, they will clear it like no problem. So even if Teemo can throw the shroom now, no one will get hit by that, what's the point of giving throwing shroom. -Season 5 : 5 ORACLES ;D 1second armtime was still hard to pull off close distance fight Teemo had against melee carries.

Conclusion : Teemo needs a jump, and if Teemo has a jump it will never be op. If it is op, then what about gnar... or even fiora who recently got a multiple jumps. Cait who has one of the longest range has a jump too. I do not understand why Teemo shouldn't have a jump. Btw, in Dominion Cinematic, it shows Teemo jumps.

74 Comments

RottedApplesSep 1, 20158 votes

people are always like "but teemo counters darius" as someone who plays teemo, fuck you guys. So easy for darius to beat poor little teemo (at least pre-rework, idk how it is now)

But i've been doing quite well with teemo into irelia on the few occasions that i play it. This could all boil down to the fact i play teemo AD and it works a little bit differently than ap teemo, but I do well in enough games that I'm not going to abandon AD teemo. I do play AP in different situations though.

DazedOnlookerSep 1, 20152 votes

I tend to play AP teemo, mainly to make my shrooms stronger(the op mask).But il admit through all of my teemo games so far, the most difficult match ups for me has always been against Gnar Darius DrMundo Shen and pretty much anyone else who can lock me down and all in or tank my damage + my minions + turret early game and still win the 1v1..and its worse if i rarely get any ganks from your team, i'm often stuck camping under my own turret, with a 80% chance if getting turret dived at 60% hp, and since the nerf my shrooms haven't really been helping me much anymore. i may just try out the AD build for a change of pace and see how it goes.

KKonaSep 1, 20156 votes

Blizzard please buff meeto.

Rıots Bad ClientSep 1, 20156 votes

I would be REALLY great if teemo can jump the same length as his Mushroom tossing.

And you can jump off mushrooms... Endlessly

That shit would be cute as shit.

YfrappefortSep 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I would be REALLY great if teemo can jump the same length as his Mushroom tossing.

And you can jump off mushrooms... Endlessly

That shit would be cute as shit.

So it would look something like this? (watch it from 1:22)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxd33Yoyrzs&index=16&list=PL1w8_8-snwAykgXeZsS15bGgwgClk1Ul4

Rıots Bad ClientSep 2, 20152 votes

Why are you sending me this cute shit. LOL

Exactly like that!

omg, that;s great you actually pulled that up!

ChaosThiefSep 1, 20151 votes

I mean, they apparently experimented with that on gnar but that didn't work out well.

LuggSep 1, 20155 votes

Teemo doesn't need a jump. His move quick should remove all slows when cast and he would be fine for getting away.

What Riot really needs to do is revert the mega nerf to the mushroom time back to 10 minutes. Imagine the outrage if Rek'sai tunnels only lasted 5 minutes instead of 10.

The LovelessSep 1, 20151 votes

Idk. Id rather he not be an annoying champ to play and fight against. He should be a loveable mascot, not someone people commonly refer to as satan.

If Riot really wants him to be a marksman, they need to alter his cowardly hit and run playstyle while also giving a better AS boost. Resetting his poison ticks hurts marksman 'Mo as well.

LuggSep 2, 20151 votes

If Riot wanted Teemo to be a real marksman, they wouldn't have given him such short range on his AA and abilities.

The LovelessSep 2, 20151 votes

Not sure if you were around, but before the renamed carries into marksmen, Teemo was actually a fighter. He used to do weird builds that would only work in season 2 and DID work some how, such as item 3022 item 3106 item 3091 item 3006

He's old and they haven't updated him(/his range). Simple.

LuggSep 2, 20151 votes

Thanks for the info. I have only been playing since the end of season 3.

ThryaleSep 1, 20152 votes

agreed, teemo should really be allowed to remove slows just like eve and garen can. (worse part is, both can not only remove slows, but they do so without using mana either!)

I also think riot should allow teemo's Q to apply his E's on-hit effect.

But like I mentioned to loveless, I think riot should focus teemo on kiting, but atm, he doesn't do that very well. Especially pre-6. What do you think needs to be changed to enhance his kiting gameplay?

LuggSep 2, 20151 votes

I think Teemo kites extremely well. You just have to plan ahead with your mushroom placement. With the shrooms and move quick, he can kite you to death pretty easy.

ThryaleSep 2, 20152 votes

kite who? the 5 champs that don't have gap closers and/or hard cc that out ranges his aa range?

LuggSep 2, 20151 votes

Most of the champs with gap closers also rely on auto attacks for a significant portion of their damage. That is when you blind them and continue to kite back.

PuddySep 1, 20154 votes

Teemo needs a buff. The recent changes just butchered him. Im not sure about a jump but i made a thread recently (that unfortunately got 0 attention) http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gows2Bhv-the-teemo-changes-he-needs-more-love-what-i-would-change-the-problems

MathbalnaseSep 1, 20151 votes

Teemo needs a full rework before Riot will, realistically, consider buffing him significantly.

ZeranaSep 1, 20154 votes

We can solve the Teemo problem right now and just buff his attack range by 50. Now he can viably be an adc caster hybrid.

PreymsterSep 1, 20154 votes

I love teemo, i enjoying playing as this champion to no end, but i have to agree that he could use a buff. but in the form of a full rework. currently most top laners either have some form of gap-closer that allows them to wipe out teemo or they can simply build the first half of spirit visage and proceed to ignore teemo completely. and with the massive prevalence of assassins in middle lane with long-range poke you cant take teemo middle either. bottom lane is a disaster zone.

simply put there really isnt much of a spot for the little dude in the game, his damage lags behind quickly even if his farm remains the same due to him only have a single poke nuke on his Q, and his E is laughable at best once you build just a little MR. he is outranged by well over half the current champion roster (seriously he shares the same attack range as BARD, 500 range). you can get poked down by annie in middle with her AUTO ATTACK. and dont give me the whole "but sivir and lucian have the same attack range and they have to be hard carries". sivir has a spellshield that can absorb CC when used well and lucian has a dash that, once again, when used well can negate all sorts of CC. sure kog'maw falls in this category as well but with living artillery and BaB he can effectively harass the enemy laners under their tower while laughing maniacally.

but ill bring up the same points i did the last time a thread came up about teemo being underpowered...

hes tough to balance, really tough, like really really really tough. he affords his team massive amounts of map awareness even with the nuke to his shroom times. if you buff his damages or ratios then you can end up accidentally putting him in a position where he can dodge in, hit with a single AA and do an inordinate amount of damage because he does both AD/AP damage. i feel that simply buffing his AA range will put him in a MUCH better spot in top and middle lanes, affording him a little more safety and putting his enemies at a point where they have to put more at risk other than using a dash skill or flash.

seriously, give the little dude some love.

lolipopevelynnSep 2, 20154 votes

Riot is too damn scared of the backlash from community to ever buff teemo in a meaningful way. the champ needs a rework BAD.

the reality is that he is perhaps one of the top useless champions in top lane. gnar does teemos job better except gnar doesnt have shrooms. and they nerfed his shrooms to only 5 mins from 10 just to add insult to injury.

YfrappefortSep 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Riot is too damn scared of the backlash from community to ever buff teemo in a meaningful way. the champ needs a rework BAD.

the reality is that he is perhaps one of the top useless champions in top lane. gnar does teemos job better except gnar doesnt have shrooms. and they nerfed his shrooms to only 5 mins from 10 just to add insult to injury.

Problem is, will Riot seriously try to rework Teemo? Or leave him in the underwhelming state he currently is?

Davy CrockettSep 1, 20152 votes

Just gonna say this as an avid Cho player: For teemo to beat cho, harass and rush attack speed, and push to drop two towers before he gets back to lane.

YoellaSep 1, 20152 votes

Teemo needs two things, a hop as his W active instead of doubled bonus movement speed and to remain stealthed for a short period (0.5 - 0.75 seconds) upon leaving a bush he was stealthed in.

He just won't feel like a scout without it.

LemurMonsterSep 1, 20152 votes

I am glad someone brought this up. Sadly they pretty much gutted his late game because how short the shrooms last not mention the Arm time.... I find his W worthless.... It's really sad how slow it's active is compare to many other speed ups of Champs like Lulu. I like it's passive but there is no point to it if any attack from a champ makes it lose it's passive since he has NO escapes.

He's also laughably squishy.. One of the worst in the game so again what is the point? There is a lot of mobility champs out since then so something must be done to help him as he has some of the worst win rates now if not the worst in Platinum and higher Ranks.

YfrappefortSep 1, 20152 votes

I wish we could get some sort of follow-up for Teemo. Patch 5.15 was clearly a nerf to him and he is now the weakest he's ever been. I have been playing Teemo since season 1 and now I just don't feel like playing him at all.

Sadly, Riot seems awfully quiet when it comes to Teemo posts...

His win rate is still 2-3% lower then what it used to be (combining all ranked). In Diamond, his win rate is just horrible. He still need buffs.

Nidalee SO NYAAASep 1, 20152 votes

I love people think Teemo is cute have you read his lore?

VekknaSep 1, 20152 votes

I think he needs a single one of the following buffs:

W breaks roots and slows OR breaks slows only and grants immunity to slow for active duration.
W passive no longer breaks on damage and grants stealth on use for duration.
Teemo is stealthed while any mushroom is arming or revealed
E applies spell effects

daggers of denakSep 2, 20152 votes

Logged in to up vote, riot needs to look at how to rework teemo so he is better able to fight against gap closers

He does nowhere as much damage late game as ads though he is played the same way

I find that once my lane opponent builds 1 Mr item I as teemo, can no longer trade with them. (I know they are counter building but I find teemo is imo one the champions mostly affected by this).

Meep ManAug 30, 20162 votes

I would really like it if Teemo relied heavily on shrooming an area to gain power over it, but his shroom's had more counterplay.If they figure out a way for Teemo's shrooms to not require gold purchases or you to lose Passive warding to counter them, then we can surely buff him because, without his shroom's little counterplay outside of forcing enemies to constantly use gold or remove Passive warding, he is actually REAAAAAAAAALY bad.

could b worseSep 1, 20151 votes

10/10 ~Icetea50

Ivan PavlovSep 1, 20152 votes

pls no spam Kappa

Sozan5Sep 1, 20151 votes

Hm, my proposed changes for Teemo (that I just made up):

Passive: Attack speed buff reduced to 20/30/40/50 (from 20/40/60/80) First attack during element of surprise deals additional 10 +4*Level +30% AP magic damage (So, maximum damage is 82 +30% AP)

W: Cooldown changed to 18/17/16/15/14 Passive movement speed changed to 10/13/16/19/22% +2% AP Active movement speed changed to 30/39/48/57/66 +6% AP that decays over 3 seconds to it's passive value (so, in average it's doubled, but you get higher burst of speed after use). Also, lower cooldown because 17 seconds for a movement speed buff at max rank is ridiculous.

R: Shroom duration changed to 300/390/480 seconds from 300 flat at all ranks (so 5/6,5/8 minutes instead of 5)

In summary: small increase in mobility (though, with higher AP it will be pretty good), more benefits for trying to gank from the passive and a partial revert on the shroom duration nerf.

Also, Teemo cannot get a jump because his damage source is all targeted and thus cannot be dodged. As such, he shouldn't have that much safety.

It Hertz When IPSep 1, 20151 votes

Dunno about the passive change, his skillset screams sustained damage, not burst. And his W CD isn't so bad considering that now the passive does not go away while the ability is on CD.

Sozan5Sep 1, 20152 votes

Well, first of all - the only thing that Teemo screams is "Kill me! Kill me!".

Second of all - Teemo does not have tools to actually deal sustained damage. I get from where that idea came though. His base attack speed is one of the highest in the game (thus increasing effectivness of %attack speed stat), his E have a base on-hit damage and his passive gives him attack speed. Also, for some reason DoTs are assosiated with sustained damage, even though this isn't necessarily true (for example - Swain is a sustained damage dealer with dots, while Malzahar is a burster with dots).

However, Teemo isn't a reliable sustained damage dealer, because of few reasons:

He cannot survive while dealing sustained damage. That's by far the most important point. Teemo's range is low (places him directly in danger zone of other champs most of the times), his survivability is even lower and he lacks real escapes (as I said, he shouldn't have it, with his current kit). All of the other sustained damage champions have some of this (ADCs usually have higher range and escapes, Swain/Vlad/Kayle have survivability etc.) because in reality - sustained damage champions cannot exist without it.
His E main damage is actually in the DoT that doesn't stack (instead it refreshes on every hit).
His base AD is crap, which reduces his attack speed advantage.

If anything, Teemo gameplay pattern is usually good ol' Hit-and-run with a lot of map control and pick potential (he can burst down squishy targets by himself, usually). So, pretty much less sustained damage, more like "small bursts of DoT damage every few seconds".

At least that's what I have found to be most effective. I would show you my match history to show you how I play Teemo (as in, the build, skill order etc), but I play him mostly on normals (I generally play mostly normals), so all you will see from Teemo are my ranked games with him (a whopping 7 games (5W 2L), ouf of which 2 were played on TT, and only 3 were in soloQ), which isn't big enough to be a base for anything.

Ivan PavlovSep 1, 20155 votes

safety... i dont think blind is that much safety spell neither move quick.

only his mushroom is, but that is also not that good anymore.

think about gnar or lulu, they have lot of escapes with aoe slows

0SilverfangAug 30, 20161 votes

Actually a good buff set. One of the better that I've seen. It also encourages multiple play styles. As well as rewards good passive use.

Sozan5Aug 30, 20161 votes

Uh, you just replied to a year old post...

But thanks. xD

0SilverfangAug 31, 20161 votes

No sweat. As long as the discussion is relevant I don't believe it's ever too late to comment on an old post. ;)

Sozan5Aug 31, 20161 votes

I don't think it's relevant anymore.

Teemo got 2 buffs since that post (and has currently one of the highest winrates among toplaners). :D

0SilverfangAug 31, 20161 votes

I suppose. I just hate his new meta. He should designed around his shrooms in my opinion, not by building frozen mallet. It hurts me to see him now. I can't even bring myself to play him because it isn't fun anymore.

Sozan5Aug 31, 20161 votes

Play him full AP then, it works to an extent:

http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=Sozan5

SpecterVonBarenSep 1, 20151 votes

I disagree with the Darius matchup, that one is a skill match up and the change to Darius's passive where it's physical damage instead of magic really helps keep you from blowing up if you get an armor item early.

One Bind MorganaSep 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with the Darius matchup, that one is a skill match up and the change to Darius's passive where it's physical damage instead of magic really helps keep you from blowing up if you get an armor item early.

darius takes a massive steaming dump on teemo unless teemo is diamond and the darius is silver

SpecterVonBarenSep 1, 20151 votes

its a skill match up, if you can bait his pull then you can win trades easy.

0SilverfangAug 30, 20161 votes

Until he gets phage then runs faster than you.

MathbalnaseSep 1, 20151 votes

Teemo needs a 'full rework'.

I firmly believe that nothing short of that will be sufficient for Riot to allow him to be strong again (after years of nerfs).

Unfortunately, the last I heard, they had no intention of actually doing anything of that magnitude for him, so he's left in the gutter to rot.

0SilverfangAug 30, 20161 votes

But why? If that's what they want why not kill him off entirely? I love teemo but how they're treating him feels disrespectful.

CoolKnightSTSep 28, 20151 votes

He can actualy be ballanced kinda easy:

Q: Should aply to his next auto attack or the projectile speed should scale with his attackspeed. It's kinda rediculus teemo losing so many damage because the cast time of his Q while building attackspeed.
W: Since bouncing shrooms is a thing why not let him bounce on one during the activation of his W. The mushroom will detonate so it can be used on engage.

These changes could help him a lot. Mostly the Q change is really needed if you want to make nasors viable on him.

VivaLaKittenAug 31, 20161 votes

he's fine the way he is, and a jungler can't gank him properly with all his shrooms if the enemy picked someone that counters teemo, then you'll just have to make do