"If you're high elo, then you're playing the META, PERIOD"
What about all the one tricks who reached high elo. First name that comes to mind is Pink ward on his AP shaco where everyone said he couldnt do it.
"If you're playing Kayn jg and you don't know how to at least stay EVEN during lane phase,"
If you're playing a mid to late game champ you're not playing to just stay even you can be a little behind but that takes us off the point of this discussion so its a red herring to even say this. Since it has nothing to do with jungle pressure or taking objectives. Asking a mid to late game champion to stay even with an early game is outright illogical. Thats like saying trynd should be able to keep up with darius.
" I'm pushed under tower (if this is the case, then you shouldn't be taking drake, you should be ganking)"
Its like you didnt even read the assumptions we were making about the lane which YOU brought up.
It was right here "but lets assume the enemy bot is in lane and you're "pressuring" them"
"We're "even" in middle of lane (positionally speaking, champ advantage can be anything), in this state you still shouldn't do drake because if I go they WILL follow and we're going to have a fight, may as well gank and take them out (or push them off) FIRST"
If the enemy jungler is top collapsing on a 3v2 in our favor would be dumb of the enemy. In other cases sure dont do drake but again this has nothing to do with you staying bot and "pressuring" while the support helps at drake in which case again red herring argument.
" If enemy is pushed under tower and I can't hold them there (even 2v1) for at least 10 secs, then I suck as an adc unless they're baiting a gank in which case drake is bad idea anyway."
Again an assumption this is dependent on the skill level of the players you're against and the champions you're against and the summoners you have up, but again why hold them when they either come to drake to stall us and lose cs or stay bot and lose drake. Its a lose lose situation for them. So either way we're winning. Why would you stay in lane and potentially cause a snowball in the lane? That makes no sense.
"If they're able to push out then I just drift up and either help rush it down for the smite or block them to give you time to smite."
In which case you're risking death over just not coming to drake to finish it while they had to clear wave. The smart move is to give the opponent 2 options where they lose in both options: come to drake= miss cs, get your cs = lose drake. This is how you take small wins and snowball into larger leads.
"If I'm in the pit immediately, they just rotate up to block."
You're referring to taking drake blindly which in any case isnt the correct way to play. Are we debating about how to play correctly or incorrectly? Doing drake while they have vision is terrible especially when you dont know where the jungle is. on top of that theres so many ways to clear (sweepers, control wards, plants) that theres no reason to clear the pit before doing drake.
"If they in FoW, then ideally I go to drake, BUT we need to know where they are."
This is a contradiction in itself. If theyre in fog of war we wont know where they are. So you basically said "if theyre not on the map i go drake, but we need to see them on map." What does that even mean?
"if dragon isn't either dead or smitable when enemies appear in vision then we're gonna get dove by opponents that more often than not have more health. And if you're complaining about team not protecting your jungle early then I don't like your odds of winning that fight"
Theres 2 times you take an objective. When you're stronger and want to force a fight, or when you want to rush the objective down before the opposing team can get to you. The whole idea of "sneaking" objectives which some people use is bs it shouldnt be done. Its a risky call to sneak but thats besides the point. The point here is when you go to drake you should have already decided if you're going to turn on enemies or burst the objective down.
"This is only true IF you secure it. If you call drake and it takes us (collectively) 15 secs to kill and 7 secs in people wanna bail because here comes the enemy team, then I've lost lane pressure AND cs for your bad call. This is why the pros MAKE SURE the enemy is gone before they do the neutral objectives (or have a large advantage)."
Ive answered this in this post when talking about intentions when taking objectives so i wont waste your time to read the same thing again.
"Also, if I ping for a gank when I'm under turret or (worse) ping for drake when I've done the hard part of clearing the area and you ignore me to farm up some more, then I ain't gonna feel real motivated to follow your pings simply because NOW its convenient to you. (and this right here is playing with for 4 randos in solo-q in a nutshell)"
Well heres the thing if im top side when you choose to clear and ping and you dont get the help your asking for right away thats on you. Its not the jungle's fault if you cant prep yourself to line up according to his pathing (assuming hes pathing correctly). So if im bot side and your pushed to their turret and then i begin to path to top side and i pass mid lane and your pinging for help, dont expect me to turn around leave my camps up to run bot and waste 8-12 seconds running down there for a gank on your lane because you didnt manage your wave properly.
"TL;DR; - I'll follow your call if it seems tactically sound, but I'll try to assist you my OWN way if I don't think you know what you're doing."
And the problem with this, as an adc you only know your strength relative to the enemy bot lane, as a jungler who's been active and knows whats going on on the map, i know which lanes are stronger and who can help out in which places. I have more knowledge about the overall state of the game because ive been all over the map. So with your limited intel you make a decision which ruins the call im making because you THINK you know something more when you dont.
Hopefully this helps you see things from a jungler's perspective better.
