RIOT am I alone? I should lose lp for s+ carry?

LKW Knotty·Mar 30, 2016·3 votes·1,675 views

I'm not conceited but I know my role. Is it too much to ask that other players have SOME proficiency equal to or greater than myself. There has to be an easy fix for summoners like me. Can you do MORE than just display our individual performance. Perhaps a lost forgiveness for players scoring s+ to a losing game. I challenge RIOT to explain the fairness in their ranking system. If we are to que with random summoners they need to match our personal criteria in some manner.

37 Comments

redniwediSMar 30, 20165 votes

Forgiveness? LP is only decided by whether you win or lose. It doesn't matter how well you did, it matters if you won or not.

Just because there's a grade now doesn't mean anything's changed in that regard, or that anything should change.

"Fair" just means that everyone faces the same rules. It's just as fair now as it would be with your idea, since everyone is effected by the same rules equally. It doesn't have to be kind, or nice, only equal.

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

no fair means even chances for both teams example.

team 1: s1, s1, s1, s1, and s1 team 2: s1, s1, s1,s1, and s1 team 2 loses the match because just one teamate who is s1 fed out of control and raged the team leaving them 4v5 so what? they all deserve demotion? ERROR its not "fair"

redniwediSMar 30, 20164 votes

Both teams were given the same starting situation. They were given five members that average out to be the same ranking.

What happened after that was human error, which cannot be accounted for without making considerable concessions elsewhere.

They don't deserve demotion, just as they don't deserve a pardon for their loss. They played the game and their nexus exploded, end of story. They lost because their nexus exploded, and that is why they lost LP and/or were demoted.

There was no punishment involved here. They queued up with full knowledge that they might lose the game, either by being outmatched or from other factors.

Even trolls and ragers are fair. The chance of getting one is equal for each team. You're not interested in fair, you're interested in a generous system that makes up for the things you cannot control causing you to lose. Your idea gives one team an advantage when it comes to the overall ranking system.

Think of it this way. Team 1 snowballs out of control, and around the 20 minute mark their support disconnects, never to return. Team 2 still has little chance of winning, but they have no safety net to fall back on if they throw the defense of their base. Team 1, on the other hand, cannot lose. Even if they throw the game they don't lose anything. This is inherently unfair to team 2.

I'm interested in a fair system that treats both teams equally in all situations. If your nexus explodes you lose, and if their nexus explodes you win. That is all. No concessions for AFK, or getting an S. Just raw, cruel fairness that doesn't care about what caused your game to end.

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

your arguement is not valid. clearly if the game is lost due to afkers and feeders then the match making has failed us. I do not afk i do not feed do not pair me EVER with anyone who does that would be unfair. but because im silver and some other rager is silver that is fair? it is not. Even when i win a game and it was easy i feel that was unfair even the team says wow that was too easy they should be able to pair us better. end of story the human error is not 100% fail its like i missed a q sry or i build armor oops. it is unacceptable to anyone who plays this game to get a teamate that clearly is lower skilled because ur rank doesnt reflect your skill deal with that.

redniwediSMar 30, 20163 votes

Please explain to me how matchmaking failed? Did it fail because it did not recognize that a player was going to purposely afk or feed before it happened? I'm sorry that matchmaking cannot see the future for you.

Again, your definition of fair is wrong. My argument is valid if using the actual definition of fair. You may feel it is unacceptable, and that may be the case, but it is ultimately fair.

Fairness doesn't care if the game was easy. Fairness doesn't care if you were practicing a champion against someone who has years of experience in that exact matchup. Fairness only cares about everyone being governed by the same rules.

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

first of all u are just here to hear urself talk because everything u say i jsut speaking in circles. I already said its unfair to pair with players who are clearly underskilled u can easily tell by looking up a player match histroy did they cs did they take towers items built these reflect how good a player is. YOU WERE GOLD LAST SEASON???? i looked u up u lose horribly in normals and feed nonstop if i got paired with you it would be an injustice so basically cry baby players like you are the problem

redniwediSMar 30, 20163 votes

The reason I'm "speaking in circles" is because you still don't understand the one, singular point I came here to make. It's like you're not capable of understanding the definition of the word fair.

And now that you've ran out of things to argue against my simple point of what fairness is you bring in the insults. Classic diversionary tactic. If you take the time to make an actual attempt at an argument again I'll be happy to continue this, but if you just reply with insults I bid you a good day.

However I'm not about to let the insults slide by, not because I want to start an insult war or anything but because you've made it so easy for me to come back at you. If you're going to bring someone's match history into an argument make sure your own history looks good first, because if what I'm doing is feeding nonstop I don't know what words I'd use to describe your ranked matches.

At least I go positive in the majority of my games...

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

you are unranked so u have no reference here honestly dont know why anyone would think u know what u are talking about :/

redniwediSMar 30, 20163 votes

Because you have to be ranked this season just to talk about this... Next you'll require me to be a specific rank.

It's not like I was gold last season, or silver the two seasons before that. It's not like most of what we're talking about also effects normal matches.

AkasuiseiMar 30, 20164 votes

This isn't eHarmony or Tinder so no, your teammates don't need to match your "personal criteria" at all. It's a game with winners and losers so regardless of a person getting S+ rank in a losing game, a loss is a loss. Did the star center for a pro basketball team with a triple double and career high game that his team loss get any kind of forgiveness? Nope. Maybe he got some kind of sweet sponsor deal with a brand name on the side, but that's only possible at the pro level for 1 out of so many players.

LOL has millions of players and Riot doesn't have managers looking out for each and every single one of them making sure they feel good. Its a large scale operation with an efficient system: You play with people in the same rank, if you win, you move up. If you lose, you move down. You are placed at the level of your skill.

If you want people to match with your personal preferences, thats what the boards here and other 3rd party websites are for. Put you times, roles, play styles, favorite memes, sexual preferences, favorite movie and ice cream flavor up there and find people that fit and you can play with.

So to answer the question in the title, its a 5 v 5 game. Win as a team and lose as a team. What about the games where you get a D and still win cause of your team? Should you give back the LP since your score sucked?

Go check out the team recruitment page. You'll find tons of others who feel the same way as you do so maybe you can team up together and you'll improve and have more fun.

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

the problem is not with the game its with the pairing system. they "pair you with people your rank" bull shit these people i get paired with have no focus no mechanics and keep me losing and i remain in silver or bronze because of match making. i shouldnt need 5 friends on to climb rank. you compare league to a pro basketball team and its idiotic because besides the lcs, when u que rank its like a basketball pick up game at the park you dont raise ur hand for a team if u dont play basketball. how can noobs sneak into ranked games with only 2 wins and get matched on my team with 200 wins. it is flawed and it needs to be fixed

HasanK11Mar 30, 20163 votes

reduced LP loss for S ranks

Mecha MaIphiteMar 30, 20163 votes

If you didn't win then it wasn't a carry

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

carry role

Communist ToastMar 30, 20163 votes

that actually sounds like a good idea tbh, if you get any S rank really (S-, S, S+) that means you are playing your champ much better than most. so if you lose you shouldn't lose as much

stephyagameupMar 30, 20162 votes

You are not alone. Another good example is when i get to a series game and like noone is good. they clearly have never earnd a series game in their life so how do i get placed with team mates like that ugh so frustrating. RIot we want answers!

BaunjoMar 30, 20162 votes

S+ is given by having a good KDA. but KDA does not win games, that is why so many people get stuck in ELO's they do not feel they belong in. It does not matter how good you know a role or how well you can get fed and stay relevant, if you cannot kill the enemy nexus by taking objectives you WILL NOT WIN.

SerevasMar 30, 20166 votes

No S+ is given by playing your champion and role dramatically better than most people other people. KDA is taken into account, but it's far from the only factor involved.

BaunjoMar 31, 20161 votes

[deleted]

SerevasMar 31, 20163 votes

KDA, CS, Towers, Team fights, and kill participation, etc. All assigned statistical values, which is how websites like lolskill ranks people as best at xyz champion. Everything you're involved in inside the game is counted and kept track of. Read the original release of the champion mastery system and you'd know that, but instead you'd rather blurt out bullshit and misinform people.

Furthermore I would have to be currently playing ranked in order to actually be attempting to climb, which only goes to further prove my point of you blurting out nonsense of which you have no idea about.

BaunjoMar 31, 20161 votes

is lp not WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU WIN RANKED GAMES? Or are you referring to the in game currency ip?

Team fights is not it's own category, you are assuming there is always someone just spectating your game to see what is going on.

Kill Participation is part of KDA? Do you know what the A stands for? Assists. Do you know what you get when you participate in a kill? Either a Kill or an Assist, part of KDA.

Towers, yes, that is true and I completely forgot that. But you could take 1 tower that game and no one else on your team does and think all high and mighty of yourself.

You do NOT win games by KDA. Which is what that grade signifies. Oh and your whole " read the original release of... "

Where in that post does it mention those 5 things specifically?

SerevasApr 1, 20162 votes

Ok look at this page

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/features/champion-mastery

Grades Hover over your Champion Mastery points bar in the post-game screen and you’ll see the grade that our new system gives you. Grades are awarded based on your overall performance in the role along with the champion you’re playing and, crucially, where you’re playing them.

Find the above information word for word on that page, and now shut up and move on because you're completely wrong and have no idea what you're talking about. You can also scroll further down and see the section in FAQ that is specifically labeled "What goes into the grading system? How do you calculate it?" to find the information as follows.

It’s based on the champion and role that you just played in a game. So, for example, we look at Annie mid differently to Annie support. We take a series of performance metrics and compare how you do to all other players in your region in your champion / position combination. It is percentile driven - so earning a high score means you performed in the top x% of players on that champ in that position. The grade itself governs the point gains.

Kill participation is not KDA it's the % of kills that you're involved in. Teamfights are easy to tell if you're involved in them by oh, a bunch of people died and the entire team was involved in the kill through the kill and assists, wow so hard, better have a spectator watch those games.

All of that information is tracked through statistical values, automatically, because we're not in the 1950s anymore, and are actually capable of more than two or three things at a time through programming. If that's not enough for you then you're just beyond help and completely out of touch with reality.

BaunjoApr 1, 20161 votes

You are STILL under the impression that your champion mastery will win you games, and the words you stated in your comment are NOT MENTIONED in that post whatsoever. YOU WIN BY KILLING THE ENEMY NEXUS. Doesn't matter how good of a KDA you had. And your little speel about " well kill participation is a percent... "

Think of it this way, since you seem to ignore that flat numbers have to exist with percentages...

Combine your K and your A and divide that number by the TOTAL NUMBER OF KILLS on your team, and you have your silly percentage. That is KDA. Doesn't win you games

SerevasApr 1, 20161 votes

You're a complete moron. Nowhere, anywhere, did I state that your champion mastery grade wins games.

Your grade comes from what you're involved in that your team accomplishes compared to how people typically do in the same situations, on the same champion, in the same role. That's what I've been saying the whole time.

YOU seem to be under the impression that YOU have any sort of idea what you're talking about, which has been proven to be false on numerous occasions. The kind of things you keep thinking I'm saying are just so astronomically wrong it's like saying 3 + chocolate pretzel = lotus flower. You're not even utilizing like terms to form a coherent equation.

Furthermore if you were capable of actually reading, which I'm beginning to believe you aren't, you would find the exact quoted text blocks on the page I linked in the exact places I told you where to find them.

KDA and Kill participation percentage are different measurements for different things. They are not identical otherwise the other term wouldn't exist to begin with. They don't get you wins, which is very clever of you to state, which again I didn't say at all to begin with.

I'm going to also go back to a block of quoted text from your previous post I forgot to address

is lp not WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU WIN RANKED GAMES? Or are you referring to the in game currency ip?

Where exactly did you even get that from? I never mentioned LP nor IP in any single post I've made on this thread anywhere. You call me delusional and then argue points that don't even exist, don't get me wrong, I've seen how bad dyslexia can get, but to actually invent sentences and be incapable of finding information when I did everything short of draw you a map to find it, you must have had one hell of a time in school.

BaunjoApr 1, 20161 votes

" Where exactly did you get that from? " Read your thread again. It is IN THE TITLE. I tried to have a decent discussion with you and you sit and non stop insult me, I have not belittled you once but you have proven yourself not mature enough to handle boards and clearly must be toxic as all hell in game.

Have fun with your " champion mastery " trophy shit that makes you think you're good at the game. I'm gonna go climb and not complain and blame my team when I lose. You have to be so new if you think your champion mastery means a damn thing.

SerevasApr 1, 20161 votes

This isn't my thread you illiterate ninny. It's hilarious how you go on trying to take the high horse on how you haven't been insulting right after you delete your earlier post which stated in it "You're so fucking delusional."

Be an adult and own up to things you've said.

Jaj2edApr 1, 20161 votes

Autism at its finest.

Draven AlwaysMar 30, 20162 votes

Lol you sound so whiny. I get mad too that I lose lp. But you know what? I gain it back later. You don't win every game where you do well. Get over yourself E D G Y D G Y

Drizz92Apr 11, 20171 votes

I am fine with it counting as a loss and don't think you should gain lp from it. However if you do well enough to get an S rank I don't think you should lose lp. Instead you just don't gain or lose any.

BigspinMar 30, 20161 votes

I agree with this, it is getting really hard to carry games here lately with the new patches. Every 6.6 I have been getting a lot of AFKs for some reason but maybe it's just my terrible luck. I usually do well, in terms of getting objectives and I usually get an S or close to it almost every game I jungle in. However in my elo people tend to ACE their team then go back because they want to buy a triforce.... kappa.

DeloricVIMar 30, 20161 votes

Odds are, if you get an S rank of any description but you lose the game, you are good at this game on an individual level, but aren't sharing this power with your team. I like to go back to Sky Williams a lot, because he has some good advice for this thing. I'll paraphrase:

If you're that fed and you still lose the game, odds are someone on the team was struggling. Where were you?

I'll admit to struggling with this myself as a Mid/ADC main. It's not easy to pull yourself away from your lane to help someone who's struggling when you can just stay and keep stomping. I can't really give much more advice, but hopefully we can both at least use it in some kind of constructive way. :)

Communist ToastMar 30, 20161 votes

if someone on your team is struggling, odds are someone on their team is just as fed (or more fed) than you. so the point is pretty invalid anyway if you say "if you are fed but you still lose"

DeloricVIMar 30, 20161 votes

1 fed champ is easier to deal with 2 v 1 (even if you're under leveled/behind) and you can sometimes save a lane from absolute annihilation and net your whole team some shut down gold in the process. You just have to catch it as early as you can, and not roam to a lane that's too far gone.

LKW KnottyMar 31, 20161 votes

The magic word is "Teamwork" great easy going games is what we all strive for. what im saying is that cant something more precisely be done about the fact that it should not be this tough to win a game. idc if EVERYONE has to carry a feeder or an afk to win. i'm saying noone should HAVE to. if a game has a discrepancy (afk, feeder, rager) then null and void for the losers at least. let them have a fair shot at a normal game normal team to determine they do not deserve those points.

Communist ToastMar 31, 20161 votes

so you just answered your own question.

"if you are fed but a team mate is struggling where where you?" doesn't matter since 1 fed champ is easier to deal with

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

i agree with this and its a great point to make. this isnt a post about doing the most or helping more i mean getting a game paired with a person same rank as u but match history full of loses. clearly this player is missing these core concepts of the game they dont work as a team they feed they troll they cause u to lose. doesnt matter who you are if you get hit with these players u WILL lose and if u say u would carry it then you are lying everyone has witnessed this in their league career. it is very unfair.

LKW KnottyMar 30, 20161 votes

you just made my point. it doesnt matter in normals thats normals u can do whatever! but in ranked when ppl are trying to climb and are trying to improve u do not pair them with people who are known for feeding and being toxic u jsut dont. and you havent played 1 single ranked game SO I WONDER WHY THAT IS!!!!!!! u are exactly the reason u were gold last season!?!?!?! look at ur match history if i get paired with a feeder like you riot has failed me and it is unfair.