Effectiveness/Strength of Point-Click Abilities

XQMWlmEQ9O··2 votes·1,070 views

I've played many, MANY games where I lose to the simplest team compositions including champions that have linear kits and point-click abilities. I'm wondering why Riot hasn't done much to reduce the point-click abilities with the older champions simply because it is incredibly irritating when I am playing a champion that requires a decent amount of skill to play such as Lee Sin, Riven, etc. and I just get shut down by a simple point and click ability. I just played a game where the enemy team had a Garen, Annie, Soraka, Ashe, and AP Rengar. As you can see, the champions take little to no skill to perform well with. Garen needs to press Q, then E, then R on his villain or anyone with low HP to do a TON of damage. Annie's entire kit is merely point and click; I wouldn't even consider her W or R skillshots as they are extremely hard to miss. Soraka just needs to spam W on her teammates, Q and E when necessary, and R. I understand her Q and E require some skill to know when and where to place them, but simply spamming W is effortless and extremely effective. Ashe really only as 2 abilities, her W and her R, her Q is a damage booster after stacking it up, but her W cone is really hard to miss, and her R is easy to hit if the enemy has no mobility. AP Rengar only has to R, hop on a target and press W twice to do a TON of damage. He can also Q with Lich Bane for a good amount of damage, or E for a nice root if nobody is in the way. My team consisted of Riven, Cassiopeia, Lucian, Thresh, and Darius. Riven, Cassiopeia, Thresh, and in some cases, Lucian require a great deal of skill to perform well with. I've been practicing Riven for a long time (I know she has a point-click ability but it does not have the effectiveness/strength of a Garen R) and my friend has been practicing Thresh for a long time. Although we performed well, we were not able to do anything against their composition as they had simplistic kits that shut down our entire team. I find it unfair how someone can spend so much time practicing a champion to do well with them, just to get shut down by maybe a first time Rengar, Annie, or Garen. Another example is Veigar. Veigar has a point and click ability that can demolish an APC that can be blocked by spellshields and items. This ability scales with the enemy's ability power. For instance, Veigar can be losing lane to an Annie, and he can be 0-3. The more ability power Annie gets, the more deadlier Veigar's R becomes. Veigar can walk into lane, press R and do 1/2 to 3/4 of her health just because she has a lot more AP than him and he is 0-3. I find it absurd. In conclusion, Riot needs to limit the strength/effectiveness of point-click abilities as it is unfair to those who take practice for a long time to get good with a champion who requires skill.

22 Comments

Oleandervine4 votes

Before Taric's Dazzle was made into what it is, it was one of the most effective ways to shut down Graves/Vayne/Lucian and take the edge off of their frankly absurd ability to just dash out of skill shots. Where point and clicks take away some skillful positioning on some characters, dashes and absurd mobility eradicate any skill you have at landing skill shots.

XQMWlmEQ9O1 votes

{quoted}

Before Taric's Dazzle was made into what it is, it was one of the most effective ways to shut down Graves/Vayne/Lucian and take the edge off of their frankly absurd ability to just dash out of skill shots. Where point and clicks take away some skillful positioning on some characters, dashes and absurd mobility eradicate any skill you have at landing skill shots.

That is just one specific case though. Point-clicks are too effective in many cases, that is my problem.

Aptest3 votes

Point and click abilities are in most cases less effective and less strong than skill shots. They have less range, less AOE (usually none) and their casting is far more restrictive (you can't blast a bush to check it).

They are also somewhat necessary in the game due to the number of high-burst champions built around not getting hit with anything that can be dodged.

The Great Divide1 votes

Except Annie, who not only was allowed to break all those rules about point click cc, but they buffed her as well

Miraweave3 votes

Because targeted abilities are necessary to deal with the absurdly mobile champions that exist.

Verxint3 votes

Riot has said several times that just because a champion is hard to play doesn't mean they get to inherently be stronger. What it means is they get more tools and more options, as well as more moments of peak strength.

XQMWlmEQ9O2 votes

[{quoted}](name=gank me pls,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EHIczbv1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-28T21:44:16.234+0000)

Riot has said several times that just because a champion is hard to play doesn't mean they get to inherently be stronger. What it means is they get more tools and more options, as well as more moments of peak strength.

You're right, they don't need to get stronger, but its insane how simple abilities shut those champions down.

Miraweave5 votes

{quoted}

You're right, they don't need to get stronger, but its insane how simple abilities shut those champions down.

Just because a champion is absurdly mobile doesn't mean they're difficult to play. In most cases it means they're easier to play because they can afford to be less good at positioning.

Verxint1 votes

Frankly this is just whining and this complaint has no real logic behind it.

You're just saying "I don't like that the enemy can beat me"

Cloud2733 votes

Yes they should be stronger. High skill should=high reward. There's zero incentive to play these champs otherwise.

XQMWlmEQ9O2 votes

{quoted}

Yes they should be stronger. High skill should=high reward. There's zero incentive to play these champs otherwise.

Exactly.

Aptest1 votes

end result: nobody can play Garen in plat, and nobody can play Lee-sin in bronze.

Brutalitops012 votes

I know they're planning on making Warwick's ultimate a skill shot with his rework that has the same effect, but it can be dodged. They did the same with Taric's E in his rework. They are, slowly but surely, turning the strongest targeted abilities into skillshots instead with champion reworks. Although, if you want a truly skillshot-free environment, go play Smite. It's a third-person MOBA where you play as gods and goddesses from different pantheons, including the recently added Japanese pantheon. I find it a lot of fun, and one of the best parts is that nothing is targeted. Even basic attacks can miss, and your basic attacks slow you unless you have an item to make it so they don't anymore.

Really, why there are so many strong targeted abilities on older champions more comes down to a difference in the skill of the design and balance teams from Riot back then. The Riot that made all the overpowered targeted abilities weren't as good at balancing the game as the current Riot, and probably chose targeted abilities over skillshots because they were easier to code and they were on a schedule of a new champion every 2 weeks instead of now, where they take their time to do what it takes to make a champion feel good to play as and against and to be balanced. There were a number of abilities and champions that got scrapped solely because either Riot's game didn't allow for the type of mechanics they wanted or Riot didn't have time to code the ability in a 2 week timeframe. Look at Elise. Her E in spider form was originally going to have her go up into the sky, then drop webs onto her opponents to damage and slow them, up to 3, at which point she would drop again, but this ability was scrapped because the game's system made it impossible to code in a 2 week timeframe and replaced by the E she has today. Really, because of time constraints, Riot took the easy way with many older champions, and as those time constraints no longer exist, they're doing updates to bring the older champions up to par with current champions, making them easier to balance while also making them overall stronger and better to play.

Brutalitops011 votes

I knew this was gonna happen.

BluePolarizer1 votes

so here's my tip:

if you think that its because of point and clicks that you are losing, then play exclusively those champions that you think are 'easy'.

2 things will happen:

  1. you will learn why they actually aren't OP.
  2. you will become challenger.

So, do you think you are challenger?

Kanzaki Ranko1 votes

Hope you realize Veigar's ult isn't what it use to be

Brutalitops011 votes

Instead of being able to just 1-shot burst any AP champion just by clicking the button, now it complements his burst combo by being able to erase anyone who has under half health except tanks because it can get up to 1,000-1,500 damage if you're under half health, and for any squishy that's lethal no matter what they have.

Kanzaki Ranko1 votes

You're doing it wrong, 1500 damage is weak

I usually just Q+R for 800 dmg Q's and 2500 dmg R's on things with maw

Sasogwa1 votes

point & click abilities are usually significantly weaker than others. Champions played in competitive have little to no point&click, except the rightclick of the adc's.

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