Riot please.... when you guys made a champion and published to the league of legends server they are supposed to be broken. But kayn looks like he got a massive nerf, please buff kayn he is so weak and useless. even a support like lulu could kill him. Please make kayn better.
King of Demons3 votesLearn how to play first
PhantomGG1 votes[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEYc4LKF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-13T09:44:35.290+0000)
Learn how to play first
actually anyone who has played on the PBE will tell you that kayn has felt weak since he spawned and has been telling riot to buff either his ultimate or his early game.
King of Demons1 votesactually anyone who has played on the PBE will tell you that kayn has felt weak since he spawned and has been telling riot to buff either his ultimate or his early game.
PBE doesn't mean millions of players trying him though. Seeing what works, what doesn't. Give it one or two weeks before you can put a finger on somethinge being strong or weak.
PhantomGG1 votes[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEYc4LKF,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-13T11:42:34.282+0000)
PBE doesn't mean millions of players trying him though. Seeing what works, what doesn't. Give it one or two weeks before you can put a finger on somethinge being strong or weak.
That..exactly..is what open beat testing is... maybe you don't know this but the numbers of people in the beta servers is huge, in fact that's the problem with it. It's to huge, so riot doesn't take the advice seriously for most the advice is from people who aren't compentant to give good advice. However with the case with Kayn we the beta testers have come to the following conclusions.
-His early game is horribly weak, he lacks both damage and tank stats. He is both a poor counter jungler and a poor ganker. His ganks have near no damage and near no cc, so it heavily relies on the laners to do their part. He is a scaling jungler so the success he has in the early game is heavily dependant on teamates.
-His ultimate, does laughable damage, and by laughable i mean none at all.
-Super item reliant
-Why play Kayn when you can just play jarvan?
Necrothis1 votesI agree.. He has far too many issue. 1st is his pasive is dumb.. he cannot gank untill lvl 6. If anything he would be a ok mid laner or Top.. Not good just ok. I see him turning into a Top lane Talon.. But that is it. His passive needs to be fed by fighting other champs.. Jungling will not help him set it off early. He has Horid camp clear. His damage is on the same level as Support Taric... With Riot saying they want clear rolls for the champs... They flopped big with this one.
khorney1 voteswhy play j4 when u can play as camille
BlueBilberry1 voteswhy play j4 when u can play as camille
As I hear in chat once, "Because dey nerfed her so bad she not worth playing." Both JK4 and Cami are pretty good right now.
khorney1 voteswhen i say that i mean it as camille does what j4 does only better
loli nukes2 votesmost of these points r completely correct, the other issue is you would ignore specific lanes soley because they are ranged or melee, and if you cant get ganks off in the lanes u want, by warding, lack of cc, etc. you just fall behind. Sure you could wait 4 minutes but i think getting form at 14-16 minutes means u were weak so long the enemies will just stomp. My thoughts, buff base kayn ult damage and e movement speed, and allow kayn to choose his evolution no matter damaging ranged or melee, too impractical of a gimmick to justify imo
Necrothis1 votesYeah I did some testing since he came out... Darkin mode healing is not working right. Shadow Assassin is a joke. I keep seeing him die alot. Yeah he is new... But when a support murders him solo... Thats just bad champ.
Sir Yamazuki2 votesOr, just give it time for people to learn the thing so we don't have a repeat of Ryze, etc where they are buffed and then become over powered when people figure it out.
Naching1 votesYou will realize that be broken when published is a error and to bad that you argue about that he isnt broken.
Go to train mode and play. Now players abusing the OP champ at least must learn to play before.
I saw Kayn doing well, why you said he is Nerfed? Lies..
Necrothis1 votesAll I have seen him do is die... Thats it. hit him with one CC and he pops like a grape. He has no staying power. Yes he can kind of escape with his E but you can hit him and it cancels it. Also if he is too close to the wall sometimes it will bounce him off the wall and cancel the E way way early. Drakin mode his passive does not work. No getting around it. He does not heal from his abilitys. I have been testing him out. Not seen any real healing. When you dive with his Q and cleave a group of champs I expect to see alot of healing... Nope.
79450245DEL11 votesDefinitely does not need a buff and the poster made some good points about him being item reliant but Rhaast healing is completely retarded ( atleast in my games) He has pretty much 43% Spellvamp level (18) his Q does Max health damage that scales and heals him because of his passive. HIs w gives him a 1 sec knock up now and his Ultimate Deals 10% of the max health and it scales by 13% per 100 bonus AD you get 2-3 Ad items and youre dealing 33% of the targets Max HP and to top it off It heals him By 7%+ 9% per 100 of targets max hp so In the above scenario that would be about 25% of the targets max Hp PLUS 43% of damage dealt oh and hes also invulnerable during it. Now shadow assassin is a different story ( I see no reason why anyone would chose it over Rhaast) I feel like Riot needs to Nerf Rhaast and buff shadow assassin. Although Kayn overall is useless if he falls behind and Mediocre if he doesnt snowball.
Helgruim1 votesI jungle a lot and he gets out damaged by every champ in the game until 20mins if he doesn't get fed. By that point most games are decided and if you have a jungler who can't function until that late into game. He is a ton of fun to play if you get full items and are at level 18 but that can be said for a lot of champs that don't suffer his draw backs. For ex: I couldn't kill a level 1 varus when I was level 2 with red buff and I had a good 10 seconds or beat on him. But I've also snow balled and 1v5'd teams but even when he does that you just feel like other champions are better at it. I love to play warrior / assassin type champions and I'd rather play vi or ww because they have the similar late game potential without the completely giving up on their early game. I feel it's fair to nerf his late game so that he HAS an early game.
Cryo002 votesThey really need to tone down the sustain on the Rhaast form though, he heals way too much.
Rockm Sockm1 votesI would hold off on any buffs for atleast a month. Let the community see what works and doesn't.
I do feel his pre transform stats are way too low but maybe it just takes getting use too.
BlueBilberry1 votesUm, are they supposed to be broken? Sometimes they do come out pretty close to being balanced, ironically enough.
One more thing: I would suggest that you learn what Kayn can do before you declare him needing buffs. I've already seen games where he seemed a bit overpowered. Some of the champs have come out needing learning curves before they became "OP" - Ivern for example.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesOP is the perfect example of someone who wasted Riot's effort in creating Practice Tool for this specific purpose.
Purge the Serge1 votesI honestly hope Riot nerfs Kayn. I've played him in a handful of games, and as someone that prefers his Shadow Assassin form, I feel like he's way too strong of a lethality assassin.
His Q, despite having terrible ratios, hits twice. If you flash all in someone level 2, you get the double proc (which from base damage is like 110 damage rank 1), the W (which has stupid good damage/scaling and level one also hits for 110 before armor) so you're at a Talon level of burst damage with a level 2 all-in.
Beyond that level 2 powerspike, he does get dumpstered by a lot of champions for levels 3-5 or so, but it happens. There are some champs that spike hard, then fall then come back. At level 6 though, you have the outplay potential to dodge out a LOT of potential damage as well as stick to your enemy so they can't escape. His ult lacks damage because it's more of a utility anyways. I've seen a few comparisons to Taliyah where "No one knew how to play her, then they buffed her, then it went down hill from there." and that's exactly what will happen with Kayne.
Once he transforms, his poke damage is ridiculous (remember, I use the Shadow Assassin form). His W has extended range, he can move while casting, and he gets the 27% bonus Magic damage on top of the high physical damage and that magic damage passive only has like a 9 seconds cooldown ... so everytime your W is off cooldown, you can literally just poke someone for 400 damage while still being out of any harass range... as a melee assassin... at around level 11 after having 1/1.5 items completed...
Just for some reference, I played him the other day on Twisted Treeline ... literally 100 to 0 Lee Sin/Orianna instantly with no counterplay potential unless they flashed away from my Q. I feel like people build him like a Bruiser and expect assassin level damage, but these one shots were happening with Warrior jg item and Duskblade (and yes, duskblade is SUPER OP right now but that's a different story).
Now, take everything I say with a grain of salt because I was playing with lower ranked friends as a Diamond player, but he has so much powerfarm and gank potential as well.
If you read the small print on his Q, it does bonus damage to minions. On Twisted Treeline, I could clear all 3 camps with no leash and one refillable without smiting... granted, I did smite so that I could immediately gank, but there are several champions that can't even do that.
Furthermore, be it in lane or in jungle, "Let me walk through a wall and heal 100 health rank 1" ... did I mention he could casually walk through walls? You have Zac level gank routes, and if you're like me and go Shadow Assassin, you get 70% bonus movespeed AND slow immunity while running through terrain... Balanced?
I even did a 1v1 top lane Kayn vs Renekton. Level 2, I heavily out-traded, forced a TP, and had an edge in lane. Renekton proceeds to hit level 3 and way out-trade me and even pick up first blood. I hit level 6, instantly kill him, then every death I had after that was me testing the limits of Kayn with diving and seeing how turret agro works. If you can burst a Ninja Tabi's rene that's sitting at 2.7k for 80% of his health bar ... in BRUISER form (without that extra nearly 30% magic damage), then something's not right.
So yes, his early game is weak and his ult doesn't do much damage on its own, but it's a mobility ult meant to make it impossible to peel you off of your target. It's not an Urgot Execute. When he hits his powerspikes, he'll win every trade so long as you don't completely whiff everything.
As I mentioned before, do take everything I say with a grain of salt because I haven't played him in ranked in Diamond, but it doesn't feel like Kayn needs a buff. The people that do understand him have high winrates. Kayn's winrate across everyone is like 39% (looking at op.gg), but the people in diamond/masters that have the most games on him (9-14 games since he was JUST released), have MUCH higher winrates. The LOWEST was 45%, but Sinykul (D2) has a 64% winrate across 14 games, Felfire (D2) 56% winrate across 9 games, Danwel (D1 in promos to Masters) 56% winrate across 9 games. Odds are, these winrates are on the low end because KAYN WAS JUST RELEASED. They were still learning the guy as they played him in ranked. Sinykul has a 64% Winrate across 14 games, but if you look at his last 10 games, 80% winrate.
