Why doesn't Tryndamere's ult tooltip state that there's a delay before it activates?

GuardianEnzo·May 13, 2015·77 votes·17,506 views

I spent the longest time playing Tryndamere wondering why I could never ult in time to survive. Then I finally looked up his kit on the wiki and it states there's a 0.5 second delay.

If that's the case, why isn't it stated in the tooltip in-game? It would really save a lot of frustration for players thinking they can use it within that last half a second before death when that really isn't the case. Can we get this fixed?

66 Comments

Lil SoybeanMay 14, 201524 votes

Yeah, it's actually a pretty serious amount. There were lots of times, back when I played Tryndamere, when I was sure I'd ulted the instant before dying, but it didn't take effect for some reason. I just recently read that on the wiki as well and was pretty surprised.

Why would the ult not state that? It's completely relevant...there have probably been tens of thousands of Tryndamere players over these past few years who have been frustrated because they ulted on time but died anyway, and had to just assume that they somehow messed up.

RiotMeddlerMay 14, 201518 votes

The wiki's not correct on this one. Tryndamere's ult's an instant cast spell that applies Undying Rage to him the moment it's cast. There's no delay between the server receiving the 'Trynd ult has been pressed' command and the death immunity being applied that I can see, in the scripts or when tested.

If you're seeing Trynd die with his ult going on CD at the same time, that's then a bug and any details (video ideally) would be extremely useful in helping fix that. Doesn't sound like that's what's being discussed though.

JariMay 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

The wiki's not correct on this one. Tryndamere's ult's an instant cast spell that applies Undying Rage to him the moment it's cast. There's no delay between the server receiving the 'Trynd ult has been pressed' command and the death immunity being applied that I can see, in the scripts or when tested.

If you're seeing Trynd die with his ult going on CD at the same time, that's then a bug and any details (video ideally) would be extremely useful in helping fix that. Doesn't sound like that's what's being discussed though.

I've had the delay. It never actually went on cooldown, but I would press it and it wouldn't go off, which was actually forcing me to pop it at 200 health instead of 50, and some enemies would even notice and just let me be for a few seconds. So basically it never even would say, "Undying rage" on the screen for when they hit me because they stopped before I even dropped to 1.

KingsgraveMay 14, 201517 votes

{quoted}

The wiki's not correct on this one. Tryndamere's ult's an instant cast spell that applies Undying Rage to him the moment it's cast. There's no delay between the server receiving the 'Trynd ult has been pressed' command and the death immunity being applied that I can see, in the scripts or when tested.

If you're seeing Trynd die with his ult going on CD at the same time, that's then a bug and any details (video ideally) would be extremely useful in helping fix that. Doesn't sound like that's what's being discussed though.

I've had several situations where Trynd ulted and I killed him as Darius as the cast was going, his R went on CD and I killed him. I've also had to happen to me with many other high burst abilities.

I've played Trynd often and it feels like there is always a .25 to .5 second delay from the cast animation and sometimes there isn't any delay. Its very inconsistent.

Earl EulrichMay 15, 20152 votes

hm, dunno...for me mostly it feels like the nasus/renekton ult pre-fix - sometimes there´s a sort-of-delay and sometimes it´s more or less instant. Maybe you should get som playtesters to it, can´t be that hard to reproduce.

BringYourOwnPumaMay 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAZdYLFq,comment-id=00120002,timestamp=2015-05-15T12:29:33.046+0000)

hm, dunno...for me mostly it feels like the nasus/renekton ult pre-fix - sometimes there´s a sort-of-delay and sometimes it´s more or less instant. Maybe you should get som playtesters to it, can´t be that hard to reproduce.

Perhaps it has to do with your latency?... You send the command.. delayed by .25 seconds (250 ms ping), You're killed within that time and the command to use ult still gets sent through?

Earl EulrichMay 15, 20151 votes

usually i have 20-80ms latency, and it doesnßt feel like that at all for other skills. I think it´s actually a problem with his animation.

BringYourOwnPumaMay 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAZdYLFq,comment-id=0012000200000000,timestamp=2015-05-15T22:01:13.656+0000)

usually i have 20-80ms latency, and it doesnßt feel like that at all for other skills. I think it´s actually a problem with his animation.

Its human nature to notice when something goes horribly wrong. If you slam the ult key and you die and then it still goes on cooldown, you're gonna notice it since it's far more devestating than a 0.08 second delay on a skillshot.

Loken StoneheartMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps it has to do with your latency?... You send the command.. delayed by .25 seconds (250 ms ping), You're killed within that time and the command to use ult still gets sent through?

Commands while dead don't work, so this can't really be a thing. Go ahead, try spell casting while you're dead, I'll wait a minute or two :p

BringYourOwnPumaMay 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loken Stoneheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAZdYLFq,comment-id=0012000200000001,timestamp=2015-05-15T22:03:32.892+0000)

Commands while dead don't work, so this can't really be a thing. Go ahead, try spell casting while you're dead, I'll wait a minute or two :p

The command is sent before your dead according to the client, resulting in a miscommunication with the server. The ult triggers after you're actually dead. That is the only possible way you could have his ult trigger, not receive the benefit and it go on cooldown (as was stated can happen elsewhere in the thread). I can assure you if Riot looked at the code (and they did) and tells you there is no delay in the code, there is no delay. And the delay described by some people matches perfectly to what would happen in a laggy scenario, or a lag spike even.

Loken StoneheartMay 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The command is sent before your dead according to the client, resulting in a miscommunication with the server. The ult triggers after you're actually dead. That is the only possible way you could have his ult trigger, not receive the benefit and it go on cooldown (as was stated can happen elsewhere in the thread). I can assure you if Riot looked at the code (and they did) and tells you there is no delay in the code, there is no delay. And the delay described by some people matches perfectly to what would happen in a laggy scenario, or a lag spike even.

That isn't how it works though. The server knows you're dead the instant you're dead-- you can't cast while dead. The signal to do the ability sent from your client just won't go through because it reaches the server and you're already dead.

The only way it can go off while you're dead is if there IS a delay, and there totally is. Just because someone took a quick glance at it doesn't mean its full proof--- do you know how weird coding can be? Changing one thing can practically arbitrarily break or change something else.

ReZisT LustJul 29, 20161 votes

Sion It worked i cast my spell, item 3026 Ezreal Iv danced my way back to life lol

atomicwitMay 17, 20153 votes

If there's no delay, it's at least buggy. I just got Rended by a Kalista with my ult. CD used up but nothing happening. I think this is such a common problem that Tryndamere players assume there is a delay.

Most of the time I get the feeling there's a delay, it actually doesn't go on CD though. I simply die while visually pressing it in time. Either way, it needs to be fixed. There are definitely major issues with it. Tryndamere's supposed to be about outplaying people with his ult. and it's not a consistent or rewarding experience with the way it is now.

Here's a video showing a major glitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs92OCM5OlE

TheorcheroJul 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The wiki's not correct on this one. Tryndamere's ult's an instant cast spell that applies Undying Rage to him the moment it's cast. There's no delay between the server receiving the 'Trynd ult has been pressed' command and the death immunity being applied that I can see, in the scripts or when tested.

If you're seeing Trynd die with his ult going on CD at the same time, that's then a bug and any details (video ideally) would be extremely useful in helping fix that. Doesn't sound like that's what's being discussed though.

I know this is a giant bump, but I feel like this is a warranted exception. I've probably played a couple hundred games or so of Trynd the past few months and there is certainly a delay or situations where it doesn't activate. It's very inconsistent and reminds me faintly of the old Cho Q problem where the delay was 0-.5 seconds randomly. It really fucks up my ability to do clutch ultis and I die at least once per game because it's so inconsistent.

MrElyMay 14, 201515 votes

That really is a huge difference from instant.

HenryDahNewbMay 14, 201512 votes

That explains why i was in undying rage while in GA stasis

Nunya BezwacksMay 14, 20151 votes

else that was before they changed Skirmishers saber and you ulted atrying to survive a ww ult which was bugged day one and could kill you through tryndamere's ult...

MaikalMay 15, 20151 votes

No, it's happened to me several times in season 4. I assumed that Tryndamere's ult can be cast during all cc, including stasis, but never actually tested to see if that's the case and I just died before I ultied resulting in me pressing it during stasis, or if it's actually a delay of the ultimate.

MetalGearTeemuMay 14, 20158 votes

same activation time as old viegars stun.

half a second is instant by rito and community bitching standards.

qetzelMay 14, 20152 votes

Veigar's stun always had a 0.25 seconds cast time. I don't know where people got 0.5 from... It was even confirmed by a Rioter in one of the Veigar threads to be 0.25.

MetalGearTeemuMay 14, 20151 votes

the disconnect is the fact that Viegars old "instant" stun had both cast time and activation time. Its hard to imagine casting times in the new instant gratification champion pool.

But when combining the windup for his spell and its activation the time was closer to a half second.

Which was why people flipped out when they added the original activation time nerf, because they gave it the time on top of the old cast time.

qetzelMay 14, 20151 votes

Interesting. I can't find the thread now - it has ben buried - but I still remember a Rioter saying 0.25... perhaps I misinterpreted. Where do you find information about things like this. The wiki only included the cast time.

ResiakedrømMay 14, 20155 votes

I have played a fair share of Trynd myself and I definitely do not believe that there is a 0.5 second delay.

the amount of times i would've been dead if it had a 0.5 second delay is unreal. Either the wiki was recently trolled, or the guy who made the entry plays at 300ping

Loken StoneheartMay 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I have played a fair share of Trynd myself and I definitely do not believe that there is a 0.5 second delay.

the amount of times i would've been dead if it had a 0.5 second delay is unreal. Either the wiki was recently trolled, or the guy who made the entry plays at 300ping

There is a delay. This has been (un)common knowledge for years now.

AbstracT TheoryMay 14, 20153 votes

you shouldnt really complain though, it is a pretty broken ultimate... you literally will never die if you play with it off cd.

JariMay 14, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=ExRa RivenXry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAZdYLFq,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-05-14T15:23:25.832+0000)

you shouldnt really complain though, it is a pretty broken ultimate... you literally will never die if you play with it off cd.

To use it to the best effect, you need to pop it when you're going to die, otherwise the enemy can just stop attacking you. If there's a .5 second delay, I need to pop it earlier, which means they just stop attacking me. So either die or waste the thing completely.

Phoenix Kotori May 14, 20152 votes

Get rid of the random 3% heal that counters summoner 14 and we have a deal other wise fuck Tryndamere players.

CullensMay 14, 20152 votes

to counter that all you have to do is count to 2 after he ults and then ignite

revliledpembrokeMay 14, 20151 votes

Or be a fed Zilean and time bomb him. Or Tristana's new E.

JariMay 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Get rid of the random 3% heal that counters and we have a deal other wise fuck players.

I lost a lane I should have won simply because I forgot there was a delay because it doesn't say it. If they don't get rid of it, AT LEAST TELL US. It's not a cast, you can do it while moving, you just take .5 seconds for it.

Phoenix Kotori May 14, 20151 votes

Tell opponents on the death recap tip about his heal on the ult then, I didn't know the heal was on his ult for nearly 2 years. It's the definition of invisible power right now.

JariMay 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Tell opponents on the death recap tip about his heal on the ult then, I didn't know the heal was on his ult for nearly 2 years. It's the definition of invisible power right now.

I thought you meant the Q, guess I read that incorrectly then. So I guess there's two things they need to add to it then.

Loken StoneheartMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Get rid of the random 3% heal that counters and we have a deal other wise fuck players.

Its there so that a single minion autoattack that WILL hit you every time doesn't instantly kill you.

His ult would be actually just about worthless without it.

Phoenix Kotori May 15, 20151 votes

Yea mean not like he already doesn't have a heal from the fury he gets clearly he needs another one, biased as fuck.

Loken StoneheartMay 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yea mean not like he already doesn't have a heal from the fury he gets clearly he needs another one, biased as fuck.

Rofl. Its like 60-70 hp at level 18. Divide it by two because of ignite. 30-35 HP heal, ignite does 82 damage per tick. If you time it right, it will kill him unless maybe he saved his Q, in which case it still wasn't the 3% heal that did it.

This didn't save him, his Q probably did. Or killing someone for the Deadliest Game proc.

You're actually insane if you think his 3% heal is OP. All it does is save him from the caster minions. If he didnt have the 3% heal, minions would kill him every single time he used his ult. He'd be trashtier. Granted, that's probably what you want.

Hugh G RexionsMay 15, 20151 votes

That exists? That explains a ton of my "what the hell" moments when he didn't die and his heal was on cd. This should really be mentioned somewhere in his kit

Phoenix Kotori May 15, 20151 votes

yup it's one of the most hidden information in the game.

101100111000May 15, 20151 votes

What're you talking about? Doesn't it state in the ult tooltip that he goes up to certain point of hp at the end of the ult by default?

Phoenix Kotori May 15, 20151 votes

Yes but it's extremely non-obvious to how it works to his opponents.

101100111000May 15, 20151 votes

Maybe that's because they don't read the ability. If you don't read the ability, then it's your fault, because the hp gain at the end of his ult is stated.

atomicwitMay 14, 20153 votes

Why is there a delay at all? Tryndamere is a risky champion (squishy, melee) whose most satisfying element is outplaying with his ultimate. The delay does nothing but ruin his feel. You think the ult. was timed to escape with just 20 hp.... NOPE, here's a random delay to annoy you.

I barely play Tryndamere but this delay has frustrated me to no amount. I have great ping and kept trying to time everything well only to be punished for trying to play the champion to its maximum potential.

TerchioMay 14, 20152 votes

I don't believe there's a delay. I think any delay devised by the wiki user (not necessarily 100% accurate) is due to user-experienced delay due to imperfect latency. The skill is, to me, for what amount I've played Trynd, effectively instant.

lDontLiftIcarryMay 14, 20152 votes

takes .4 second for a human to respond. So .5 seconds would literally be nothing to a human. so no its not "forever" stop acting like it is. yes it matters, but you people overexaggerate the fuck out of everything on these forums, seriously. At least show instances of it actually being an issue instead of saying " WOW THIS IS SUCH A HUGE ISSUE WOW FIX RITO" because thats all I see.

No evidence to support the claim. Just yap yap yap boo hoo fix.

Lil SoybeanMay 14, 20155 votes

{quoted}

takes .4 second for a human to respond. So .5 seconds would literally be nothing to a human. so no its not "forever" stop acting like it is. yes it matters, but you people overexaggerate the fuck out of everything on these forums, seriously. At least show instances of it actually being an issue instead of saying " WOW THIS IS SUCH A HUGE ISSUE WOW FIX RITO" because thats all I see.

No evidence to support the claim. Just yap yap yap boo hoo fix.

Karthus' Q has a 0.5 second delay. Would you be fine with it being instantaneous damage? Since it's 'literally nothing to a human', in your opinion?

Furthermore, are you suggesting that you're incapable of noticing the time before a Karthus Q pops? It just looks like it's instantaneous to you? You're saying that your brain literally cannot interpret the amount of time that the Q sits there building up before actually exploding?

BongTheRippaMay 14, 20152 votes

This just changed everything for me...died countless times where I was sure that I ulted before the kill. This is serious..FIX IT RITO!!!

slamorMay 14, 20151 votes

Wow. This is actually very game changing. I will make sure to abuse this.

LeeDarkMay 14, 20154 votes

How could you abuse this? Trying to do more damage than he expects is one of the two ways to deal with it regardless of a delay. Depending on your opponents' lack of knowledge about a particular skill isn't really abusing that skill.

MLDzXnRRRMay 16, 20151 votes

I've seen how Trynda ults (with no effect), dies, then his GA triggers and he has no ult.

KvotheAdemJul 29, 20161 votes

This has happened to me. Can confirm - Was really wierd.

HamacarinaJun 11, 20191 votes

riot please respond this is still a topic... when I click on ult in time and suddenly I see that I'm dead, I look at the ult and I see that it has 3 seconds cooldown on R,is this a bug or what ?