Some Propositions for Changing the Surrender Vote System

Draco Icarus··5 votes·1,003 views

“Why does it need to be changed?” You ask.

 Well, I’ll start by saying that I do not plan to talk about the vote availability time, how many votes are needed to pass, or the “/remake” vote mechanics.  What I’m going to talk about has to do with giving the player additional meaningful choices and clarity for using the surrender vote system and with eliminating vote bias and inaccuracy when it matters most.  When I talk about “vote inaccuracy,” in this post, I am referring to how accurately each player’s individual vote reflects the player’s individual opinions about the current state of the game and whether or not they want to surrender.
 Before I begin, I’ll provide a little context for my idea:  While browsing YouTube videos, I came across the following TED-Ed video:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heCSbA8w57A
 (specifically, the graphic that plays from 00:38 - 00:53)

 While the video is rather interesting and informative to think about, there was a specific point that I latched onto.  Throughout the video I was thinking about League’s system for surrender votes, and I think I have a different system that would help eliminate parts of this "paradox" as well as improve the effectiveness of the system in providing a team of players with a way to preemptively end the game without contributing the internal, emotional conflict.
 Additionally, in my own studies of psychology, I learned about a social-psychological phenomenon having to do with the influence of the socially popular opinion on the private opinion of individuals within the society (whether the individuals’ opinions are aligned or not).  Specifically known as “Groupthink”, this can more generally be referred to as "Conformity."

Currently, I can see three main problems with the surrender vote system.

(1): Surrender votes can only be started by a "Yes" vote.

 The first problem I see with the surrender vote system is that a surrender vote can only be started by a "Yes" vote. For those that do not know, there are two commands you can use from the in-game chat for interfacing with the surrender vote: "/ff" (votes yes) and "/noff" (votes no); however, only "/ff" can start a surrender vote and only if a surrender vote is not currently active.  This seems like the logical choice, because why would you start a surrender vote if you don't want to surrender?  However (and I can only speak from my own, personal experience here), I have run into situations where I realized that my team should consider surrendering, but I personally did not want to surrender.  At such times, I would've liked to have been able to start a surrender vote, but having the initial vote (my vote) as "no."  Instead, I've been forced to not start the vote and risk that no one else realize we should at least consider surrendering.

(2): Being able to see the current state of the surrender vote creates voter-bias.

 The second problem (that I've seen) is related to the links above.  The first example in the video I linked briefly showed a graphic where a single party- which had not joined the unanimous decision- decided to join it, simply based on the fact that it was the unanimous decision.  This can be seen as an example of the social-psychological phenomenon of conformity.  This problem arises in league from the fact that, when a surrender vote is active, anyone on the team can see how many votes are for or against surrendering.  Meaning that these results are displayed to members of the team who have not yet voted.  This allows the possibility for this conformity effect to influence the vote of individuals on the team, and it is bias to happen more often for players who are inputting higher-than-average game commands when the vote appears (i.e. fighting, farming, contesting an objective etc.), because these are the players that are more likely to be the last participants in the surrender vote.  This such influence by the "current majority vote" will contaminate how accurately the votes as a whole reflect the individual opinions of the team members who voted (thus is why- in most public voting systems, the current count of all votes is hidden from the voters themselves until at least they have voted.  i.e. StrawPoll; however, StrawPoll does allow people to see the results before voting, if they choose to).  Therefore, I propose that the current status of the surrender vote be hidden from each player until they, themselves, have voted.  This would avoid most if not all of the previously mentioned sources of voter bias.

 These are two rather simple changes that would work to increase the accuracy of surrender votes and provide players with better communication ability— allowing clearer communication and implicit portrayal of individual opinions about the state of the game.

…but I said three, didn’t I. My third point is minor and possibly not related, but I wanted to bring it up for discussion.

(3): The surrender vote pop-up box can be distracting or obstructive.

 The possibility exists that teammates can be distracted by a surrender vote, when it appears.  The popup is rather large on the in-game GUI and has coloration and behavior which catches the eye.  This means that team members who start a surrender vote can unknowingly (or purposefully) distract the other players on their team; which can cause fights to turn around and critical moments in the game to be missed (like smiting baron/dragon ASAP).  It also enables players to passive-aggressively express their discontent with the state of the game; if such a player tried to startle/choke a teammate by creating the surrender vote at an inconvenient time for that player.  That is not to say that such behavior is common or intuitive, but that it is an easily-accessed possibility.

 I would propose that, when a surrender vote is started, the popup box for the vote does not appear for each player (other than the person who started the vote) until they are "out of combat” or dead (There is already an in-game variable to keep track of "out of combat" so I feel like it would not be too groundbreaking to implement this change).  This creates another problem, however: That a vote can be stalled or missed if the vote timer expires before all members have had a chance to see it, and it could cause players to see the vote with less-than-adequate time remaining to respond to the vote.  Having inadequate time means the vote timer would likely have to be extended (meaning the "cooldown" for surrender votes (when they fail) might have to be changed).  This new vote timer length can be based on statistics from within the game and from collective statistics for all games played (i.e. "average time spent 'in-combat' ").

 Having this delay on the vote appearing for each player also helps the player out with organizing their priorities; making sure the player is most likely to be in a relatively safe location and not focused on another task before the surrender vote requests the full attention of the player.  However, the player would still be able to use the “/ff” and “/noff” commands to participate in the vote even when it is being hidden from view, and this would cause the vote status to appear for that player, regardless of if they are in combat.  This delay is not present for the person who started the vote so that they can see that the game is appropriately responsive to their action to start the surrender vote.

Tl;dr: I propose that surrender votes should be allowed to start with a “No” vote, that the current state of the vote should be concealed from the player until they have voted, and that surrender votes should not appear for a player until they are out of combat or dead.

Those were my thoughts about it, at least.

  • Draco Icarus

Context: “choke” as in performance choking Notes: 1: I realize this would make double explosions harder in certain situations. 2: I also realize players who have voted would be able to “spoil” the current status of the vote for those who have not.

The most recent changes are in bold:

Edit 1: added missing punctuation and time stamps for the point in the video that I referenced Edit 2: added specification to header for argument 3

5 Comments

Nyaboron2 votes

As for your first argument, I don't think you should be able to initiate an ff with a no vote, since it would be pointless. If you don't want to surrender, then don't bring it up. If you aren't bringing up the ff vote, it is assumed that you want to keep playing. When you're getting stomped on by the other team, people remember to ff. If you're behind and no one starts a vote, they haven't forgotten they can ff, they just want to see if they can make a comeback.

For your second point, that peer pressure is healthy in my opinion. I'll usually say no but if there are 3 votes already and I don't mind ffing, I'll just surrender since the rest of my team thinks it's hopeless already. It's not a psychological bias as much as I don't want to hold my team hostage if they already don't want to stick it out. If we think we can make a comeback like when they're all AD or early game champs, sure I'll vote no, but if the teams are balanced and we're putting on a complete clown fiesta, sombreros and all, I'm going to ff and move on.

The third point, yeah it's not that big a deal. If it is a big deal, you can drag the ff vote bar to a corner of the screen and leave it there. Your future ff vote windows will pop up wherever you leave that one (at least for the rest of the game, I can't remember right now off the top of my head whether or not it will continue from game to game after).

drink bread1 votes

{quoted}

As for your first argument, I don't think you should be able to initiate an ff with a no vote, since it would be pointless. If you don't want to surrender, then don't bring it up. If you aren't bringing up the ff vote, it is assumed that you want to keep playing. When you're getting stomped on by the other team, people remember to ff. If you're behind and no one starts a vote, they haven't forgotten they can ff, they just want to see if they can make a comeback.

For your second point, that peer pressure is healthy in my opinion. I'll usually say no but if there are 3 votes already and I don't mind ffing, I'll just surrender since the rest of my team thinks it's hopeless already. It's not a psychological bias as much as I don't want to hold my team hostage if they already don't want to stick it out. If we think we can make a comeback like when they're all AD or early game champs, sure I'll vote no, but if the teams are balanced and we're putting on a complete clown fiesta, sombreros and all, I'm going to ff and move on.

The third point, yeah it's not that big a deal. If it is a big deal, you can drag the ff vote bar to a corner of the screen and leave it there. Your future ff vote windows will pop up wherever you leave that one (at least for the rest of the game, I can't remember right now off the top of my head whether or not it will continue from game to game after).

the peer pressure isn't healthy

Nyaboron1 votes

I disagree. There isn't any way around it and sometimes you should gear your vote towards what your teammates vote.

Draco Icarus1 votes

Why should a player who is fine with surrendering, but doesn't necessarily want to surrender be forced to vote "yes" if they want to start the vote? When I see a surrender vote begin, the one vote for "yes" has a negative impact on my morale. (Additionally, if my second point were put into action, at least one of the players' votes would be identified; partially destroying the goal of voter obscurity)

If I start a surrender vote with a "no", I feel like I am saying to my team, "Hey, I don't want to give up on this game, but I would be okay with it if all of you wanted to." In other words, "I will might need to be carried for us to win this game. If you all can carry me, I will continue to play to win." I can best describe this mindset as:

  a. The player who initiated the surrender vote is not necessarily willing to give up, if the team is not willing.
  b. The player who initiated the surrender vote wants to ask the team's opinion on surrendering without negatively affecting morale.

I seriously doubt I am the only person who has encountered this mindset

If that's how you deal with the peer pressure and it works for you, then you shouldn't have to be forced to change. However, I don't deal with the peer pressure the same way, and it is unhealthy for me.

At the very least, I believe there should be an in-game setting to control whether or not the votes are shown while voting.

I know you can move the surrender vote window, and it will pop up wherever you left it. That doesn't make it less startling or distracting if it appears at a bad time. If you move it to a place where it is less noticeable, then you risk missing it altogether because you never saw it. Another reason it should not appear while in combat, is that it may directly obstruct the player's ability to perform. For example, if I'm fighting in a mechanically intense 1v1, and the surrender vote appears over my ability or attack target, then I suddenly have a huge and unfair disadvantage as I will have to move the surrender vote window before I continue fighting. This doesn't just apply to 1v1 scenarios, either. (e.g. if I'm supporting two disparate fights which are near to each other, but close to or greater than one camera-width or camera-height apart) (Note: Simply moving the camera is not always convenient or useful for such scenarios.) I feel like the player shouldn't be punished by the game because a teammate called a surrender vote at a bad time.

Edit: formatting

Calabok1 votes

i SAY MAKE IT 5 OF 5 UNANIMOUS VOTE

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